Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

bcol01
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:20 pm

Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by bcol01 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm

I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7652
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:41 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm
I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
There's pretty much no short way to explain why the Buddhist view of these things is different from what they are saying, and there is no point in replying, generally speaking. Someone who takes for granted the (mostly Abrahamic) model of life the universe, and divinity is simply not on the same page with us, generally speaking.

I try to remind myself that most people are not involved in particularly deep religious thought and that "God" is really a catch all term for all they see as positive, all they are grateful for etc. As this goes, I feel like their gratitude towards God is a positive drive for many people, and indeed I know many people who view the world this way who I believe are better off for their belief.

It's when it becomes a case of being pushy with their (usually quite shallow and unexamined) religious view that it bugs, but honestly, it is pretty rare. Most people I know who say things like this mean well when they are saying them, and I have no desire to correct them or take issue with it unless they are actually interested in the Buddhist view.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 4873
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Queequeg » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:53 pm

Well, not nothing. Just no-self. :shrug:
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

Motova
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Motova » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:12 pm

Oh my God?

Om I God!
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by jkarlins » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:14 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm
I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
There was probably a context.

In any case, it's a word. We have words in Buddhism, just like Christians and Jews have words.

Jake

User avatar
Aryjna
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Aryjna » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:31 am

One way to interpret it is that his/her life would have no meaning without his/her religion. Which is probably applicable for many dharma practitioners as well.

markatex
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:33 am

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by markatex » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:43 pm

:shrug:

I'd probably avoid having these conversations with this person if they're going to be as argumentative as they seem.

User avatar
PuerAzaelis
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:30 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm
I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
Without God, we are nothing? I'd say that's an accurate statement.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 1247
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:50 pm
Location: South Florida, USA

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by seeker242 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:09 am

bcol01 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm
I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
I would say the person definitely believes in God. :twothumbsup:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

amanitamusc
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:02 am

I think of the big baby on Teletubbies.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=te ... ORM=VRDGAR

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7652
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:38 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:02 am
I think of the big baby on Teletubbies.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=te ... ORM=VRDGAR
:rolling:
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3662
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:17 am

Would a Buddhist say, 'without Dharma, we are condemned to exist forever in samsara'? Which, while not the same, ain't that far off.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki-roshi

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:58 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:17 am
Would a Buddhist say, 'without Dharma, we are condemned to exist forever in samsara'? Which, while not the same, ain't that far off.
to mock a teaching that enables sentients to perform good karmic deeds and avoid bad ones is just really bad karma. lol..

i'm a firm believer in what a Geshe once told me.(not direct quotes but i recall the gist of it) Any teaching that produces loving kindness in a sentient is here due to The Buddha's Turning of The Dharma Wheel. He said it might seem odd to you that even a teaching like God the Creator , something that is non Buddhist thought, would come from the Buddha.

but for some it is the perfect teaching to allow them to build merit....

I've pondered this to the point it makes perfect sense...

User avatar
srivijaya
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:17 pm
Location: UK

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by srivijaya » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm
I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
From a Christian POV it's spot on:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am

srivijaya wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm
bcol01 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm
I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
From a Christian POV it's spot on:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.
Do you think that if it isn't Buddhist thought it can't be from The Turning of The Dharma Wheel.
the mere mention of this is your first and last life is enough to run ...but even that ...for those that truly practice the teachings of Christ...no matter how watered down they might even be....they create positive merit and their mind stream bends towards compassion...Thats the Buddha's intention is it not...Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..albeit a slow slow pace of merit producing Karma eradicating practices...


i truly see the Buddha's intent and power to protect and keep those lower teachings in the samsaric realms.

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7652
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:59 am

Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am
srivijaya wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm
bcol01 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm
I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
From a Christian POV it's spot on:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.
Do you think that if it isn't Buddhist thought it can't be from The Turning of The Dharma Wheel.
the mere mention of this is your first and last life is enough to run ...but even that ...for those that truly practice the teachings of Christ...no matter how watered down they might even be....they create positive merit and their mind stream bends towards compassion...Thats the Buddha's intention is it not...Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..albeit a slow slow pace of merit producing Karma eradicating practices...


i truly see the Buddha's intent and power to protect and keep those lower teachings in the samsaric realms.
He didn't leave anyone out, he just taught the Dharma, it is entirely up to beings to follow it of their own volition. In fact, to truly follow it, it has to be done of their own volition. So yeah other religions can be great, but there is no need to see them as somehow being Dharma.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
srivijaya
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:17 pm
Location: UK

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by srivijaya » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:25 am

Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am
Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..
Some Christians with a conscience ask questions like; if a primitive tribe have never even heard of Christ is it fair they go to hell? Surely God wouldn't just abandon them...

It's a serious issue for those within religions looking outwards. There are the 'deserving condemned' (the willful bad guys, who trash every opportunity) and the 'innocently condemned'. The liberal-minded like to keep a space in their hearts for the innocent ones, hard-liners are not as forgiving.

User avatar
Lindama
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: Forestville, CA usa

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:29 am

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:53 pm
Well, not nothing. Just no-self. :shrug:
that is what is meant in the Christian tradition when they say .... you must enter the kingdom as children.

I'm not well schooled in this.... maybe Christ said this, I dunno. It's in the bible....

I flunked Religion 101 in college, had to repeat it as a mandatory course.... I hated it. I was a very good student, except for that. When I learned how the Bible had been written and re-written according to who had power at the time. know anything about that? Christ and Buddha lived in a similar time.... as happens with sages in time. It's a good thing that I flunked, I walked away without the wounding. I was raised Swedish Lutheran, it was a good culteral/social/spiritual upbringing in that order. I helped teach Sunday school as a teen... with a woman who taught the kids that Jesus had walked down her hallway in her house and she had knelt down to kiss his robe .... certainly helped to develop my critical thinking skills.

With regard to this thread, it's surprising how Buddhist display such ignorance about another tradition. I have not belonged to a church in 50 years, but I do have a sensibility which crosses spiritual boundaries. Except for all the trappings and dogma, I suspect that Christ and Buddha would have been good brothers. Some say they met, I don't know.

linda
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

User avatar
Lindama
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: Forestville, CA usa

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:40 am

Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am
srivijaya wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm
bcol01 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm
I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
From a Christian POV it's spot on:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.
Do you think that if it isn't Buddhist thought it can't be from The Turning of The Dharma Wheel.
the mere mention of this is your first and last life is enough to run ...but even that ...for those that truly practice the teachings of Christ...no matter how watered down they might even be....they create positive merit and their mind stream bends towards compassion...Thats the Buddha's intention is it not...Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..albeit a slow slow pace of merit producing Karma eradicating practices...


i truly see the Buddha's intent and power to protect and keep those lower teachings in the samsaric realms.
The spirit of God hovering over the waters...... is the Wisdom of Sophia...... it's easily a buddhist sensibility as well on the inner plane.... since when is form not Buddhism??? The turning of the dharma wheel excludes nothing.... there is no such thing as lower teachings.

We have enough of this exceptionalism in our politics, we must see it for what it is.... and see the Buddha in everything. Else, forget it.

linda

ps... I notice this has been posted in Nichiren. I'm not responding in kind. The question appeared to be more general.
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

narhwal90
Posts: 568
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am

Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by narhwal90 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:31 pm

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:29 am
I suspect that Christ and Buddha would have been good brothers. Some say they met, I don't know.

linda


Ajahn Brahm and an Anglican(IIRC) Archbishop discuss what Jesus and Sakyamuni might have discussed if they had met... its light stuff but interesting in its own way.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests