Inherency

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illarraza
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Inherency

Post by illarraza » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:46 am

Something may now be inherent but wasn't always inherent. An example is a gene that has been introduced into a genome and begins to self propagate, thus becoming inherent. Another example is found in the Lotus Sutra in The Parable of the Gem in the Robe. The man inherently possessed the gem but only after it had been sewn into the lining of his robe. This is True Cause with a beginning. Only the Eternal Buddha possesses True Cause with no beginning. That is why he is the Eternal Master and to whom we owe our deepest gratitude. No one, save for the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni, has realized the Great Law of Namu Myoho renge kyo since time without beginning. No one other than he has been sowing the seed of Buddhahood [sewing the gem in the robe] in countless people since the infinite past. Those others who have realized this Law have done so thanks to this Buddha. There is no independent realization of the Great Law. Believing there is an independent realization of the Great Law or mis-attributing the sewer of the gem [sower of the Law] is the source of great arrogance.

DGA
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Re: Inherency

Post by DGA » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:49 pm

illarraza wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:46 am
Something may now be inherent but wasn't always inherent. An example is a gene that has been introduced into a genome and begins to self propagate, thus becoming inherent. Another example is found in the Lotus Sutra in The Parable of the Gem in the Robe. The man inherently possessed the gem but only after it had been sewn into the lining of his robe. This is True Cause with a beginning. Only the Eternal Buddha possesses True Cause with no beginning. That is why he is the Eternal Master and to whom we owe our deepest gratitude. No one, save for the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni, has realized the Great Law of Namu Myoho renge kyo since time without beginning. No one other than he has been sowing the seed of Buddhahood [sewing the gem in the robe] in countless people since the infinite past. Those others who have realized this Law have done so thanks to this Buddha. There is no independent realization of the Great Law. Believing there is an independent realization of the Great Law or mis-attributing the sewer of the gem [sower of the Law] is the source of great arrogance.
It's a shame no one's discussing this topic. I spent some time reflecting on the parable of the jewel in the robe some years ago, and I came away with more questions than answers. Similarly for the parable of the lost son in Chapter 4. Anyway, thank you for bringing it up.

Here's my question for you. Consider this passage from Chapter 15 (Threefold Lotus Sutra translation, page 239):
Then the World-honored One, in the great assembly of the bodhisattvas, spoke thus: "So it is, so it is, my good sons! The Tathagata is at ease, with few ailments and few troubles. These beings are easy to transform and I am free from weariness. Wherefore? Because all these beings for generations of constantly received my instruction and worshiped and honored the former buddhas, cultivating roots of goodness..."
In this passage, Buddha Shakyamuni teaches that those who have entered the Dharma do so because they have 1. heard his instruction and 2. honored former Buddhas, and in doing so, cultivated roots of merit. On the face of it, this contradicts your claim that Buddha Shakyamuni is an "Eternal Master" who singlehandedly sewed the jewel into the robes of all those who have entered the Dharma.

It appears instead that 1. the intentional action of practitioners in relation to Buddhas is the act of sewing the jewel (not salvation but collaboration, as in Chapter 4), and 2. Buddha Shakyamuni acknowledges former Buddhas as distinct from himself, not only as his emanations.

What is your perspective on this?

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Minobu
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Re: Inherency

Post by Minobu » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:34 pm

This tathagatagarbha thing in every sentient and plant and stuff is of one flavour.
that flavour is the Eternal Buddha or Primordial Buddha..

So when Lord Sakyamuni talks of other Buddhas one can't take it to mean what one wishes.
It is something only shared by Buddhas.
arguing over conventional semantics and translations and such is the work of the eternally bored and non practitioners.

when i say practitioner i mean to say those who finally discovered the Lotus Buddhism.
All other Buddhist practice is moot in the degenerative age ...or, for the insecure, at least when discussing the Lotus Sutra, which focus upon Itself the degenerative Age .

we are the "Batch" of sentients in that age.

So we put our faith in the eternal Buddha Lord Sakyamuni our Master and "Lord"...our ultimate guru , father figure , mother figure BUDDHA ...

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Grigoris
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Re: Inherency

Post by Grigoris » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:11 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:34 pm
This tathagatagarbha thing in every sentient and plant and stuff is of one flavour.
If the Tathagatagarbha is a "thing" then where is it located? Whre is it before we are born? Where does it go after we die? What is it's colour, shape, smell, sound, texture, taste?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Minobu
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Re: Inherency

Post by Minobu » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:16 am

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:11 pm
Minobu wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:34 pm
This tathagatagarbha thing in every sentient and plant and stuff is of one flavour.
If the Tathagatagarbha is a "thing" then where is it located? Whre is it before we are born? Where does it go after we die? What is it's colour, shape, smell, sound, texture, taste?
i should be more careful in talking in my colloquial . like recently i was talking to someone and said "The whole Common Law thing is interesting ".
so.
tathagatagarbha in every sentient and plant and stuff is of one flavour.
that flavour is the Eternal Buddha or Primordial Buddha..

So when Lord Sakyamuni talks of other Buddhas one can't take it to mean what one wishes.
It is something only shared by Buddhas.
arguing over conventional semantics and translations and such is the work of the eternally bored and non practitioners.

when i say practitioner i mean to say those who finally discovered the Lotus Buddhism.
All other Buddhist practice is moot in the degenerative age ...or, for the insecure, at least when discussing the Lotus Sutra, which focus upon Itself the degenerative Age .

we are the "Batch" of sentients in that age.

So we put our faith in the eternal Buddha Lord Sakyamuni our Master and "Lord"...our ultimate guru , father figure , mother figure BUDDHA ...

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Minobu
Posts: 2096
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Inherency

Post by Minobu » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:10 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:11 pm
Minobu wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:34 pm
This tathagatagarbha thing in every sentient and plant and stuff is of one flavour.
If the Tathagatagarbha is a "thing" then where is it located? Whre is it before we are born? Where does it go after we die? What is it's colour, shape, smell, sound, texture, taste?
By the way good catch, we don't want to be confusing the noobs .

illarraza
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Inherency

Post by illarraza » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:30 pm

DGA wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:49 pm
illarraza wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:46 am
Something may now be inherent but wasn't always inherent. An example is a gene that has been introduced into a genome and begins to self propagate, thus becoming inherent. Another example is found in the Lotus Sutra in The Parable of the Gem in the Robe. The man inherently possessed the gem but only after it had been sewn into the lining of his robe. This is True Cause with a beginning. Only the Eternal Buddha possesses True Cause with no beginning. That is why he is the Eternal Master and to whom we owe our deepest gratitude. No one, save for the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni, has realized the Great Law of Namu Myoho renge kyo since time without beginning. No one other than he has been sowing the seed of Buddhahood [sewing the gem in the robe] in countless people since the infinite past. Those others who have realized this Law have done so thanks to this Buddha. There is no independent realization of the Great Law. Believing there is an independent realization of the Great Law or mis-attributing the sewer of the gem [sower of the Law] is the source of great arrogance.
It's a shame no one's discussing this topic. I spent some time reflecting on the parable of the jewel in the robe some years ago, and I came away with more questions than answers. Similarly for the parable of the lost son in Chapter 4. Anyway, thank you for bringing it up.

Here's my question for you. Consider this passage from Chapter 15 (Threefold Lotus Sutra translation, page 239):
Then the World-honored One, in the great assembly of the bodhisattvas, spoke thus: "So it is, so it is, my good sons! The Tathagata is at ease, with few ailments and few troubles. These beings are easy to transform and I am free from weariness. Wherefore? Because all these beings for generations of constantly received my instruction and worshiped and honored the former buddhas, cultivating roots of goodness..."
In this passage, Buddha Shakyamuni teaches that those who have entered the Dharma do so because they have 1. heard his instruction and 2. honored former Buddhas, and in doing so, cultivated roots of merit. On the face of it, this contradicts your claim that Buddha Shakyamuni is an "Eternal Master" who singlehandedly sewed the jewel into the robes of all those who have entered the Dharma.

It appears instead that 1. the intentional action of practitioners in relation to Buddhas is the act of sewing the jewel (not salvation but collaboration, as in Chapter 4), and 2. Buddha Shakyamuni acknowledges former Buddhas as distinct from himself, not only as his emanations.

What is your perspective on this?
Since all Buddhas are emanations of the Original Eternal Buddha, all Buddha seeds were planted by this Buddha. As the Lotus Sutra teaches, sometimes he shows his own matter and other times he shows the matter of another.

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