the Entity of the Mystic Law

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Minobu
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the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Minobu » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:06 pm

The Entity of the Mystic Law

is this gosho authentic?
i cannot find the name in japanese in order to compare with sites that tell us if they are fake. been at it for awhile and cannot see it on the authentic sites
the background is sketchy ...

if it is real i think there could be real merit in discussing it

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Carlita
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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Carlita » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:00 am

I honestly think the best place to start is The Lotus Sutra. The Gosho is like commentary to Diamoku and The Lotus itself. The letters true or not are examples of Nichiren's struggles as he tried to set the true teachings while in the Japanese war almost excecuted. It says if you have the mind of Nichiren, you have the mins of The Buddha. So if you are a votary as Nichiren, you are the votary of The Buddha.

Also, Nichiren was taught by Tentai school. Looking at the authority of where he gets his sources and his main point, Daimoku, would be a better start. The Dharma doesnt change even If the commentary is somewhat off.
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
:anjali:

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Bois de Santal
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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Bois de Santal » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:38 am

Minobu wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:06 pm
The Entity of the Mystic Law

is this gosho authentic?
i cannot find the name in japanese in order to compare with sites that tell us if they are fake. been at it for awhile and cannot see it on the authentic sites
the background is sketchy ...

if it is real i think there could be real merit in discussing it
This is the Shoho Jisso Sho.

As an aside, it is unfortunate that the english translations of gosho titles seem to differ according to the translator. Hence much confusion. The Shoho Jisso Sho being a case in point. The original title chosen in the Major Writings was "The True Entity of Life" and in the WND it is now "The Entity of the Mystic Law" and neither publication has a reference to the japanese title.

And given the supplementary title of the current Shoho Jisso Sho thread, I would guess that the Nichiren Shu translation has yet another name for this gosho. Of course it doesn't help that writings such as the gosho usually have a formal title and an informal one, thus adding even more confusion.

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:17 pm

Bois de Santal wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:38 am
Minobu wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:06 pm
The Entity of the Mystic Law

is this gosho authentic?
i cannot find the name in japanese in order to compare with sites that tell us if they are fake. been at it for awhile and cannot see it on the authentic sites
the background is sketchy ...

if it is real i think there could be real merit in discussing it
This is the Shoho Jisso Sho.
Shoho jisso sho is True Aspect of all Phenomena in WND.

The Entity of the Mystic Law is Totaigi sho.

Appendix 1 of WND provides Japanese titles of the Gosho.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:49 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:17 pm
The Entity of the Mystic Law is Totaigi sho.

Appendix 1 of WND provides Japanese titles of the Gosho.
当体義抄・同送状

What a string of esoteric kanji!
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.

吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:22 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:49 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:17 pm
The Entity of the Mystic Law is Totaigi sho.

Appendix 1 of WND provides Japanese titles of the Gosho.
当体義抄・同送状

What a string of esoteric kanji!
Check this out:

lotus of the entity [当体蓮華] (tōtai-renge): A reference in the T’ien-t’ai doctrine to the lotus that is the essence of the Lotus Sutra and also the people who are entities of, or who embody, this essence.

https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/L/54


Those two characters in front must be "entity".
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.

吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:29 pm

当体
Literally, 'this body'.
But this is not corporeal body. It has a conceptual or abstract connotation.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:53 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:29 pm
当体
Literally, 'this body'.
But this is not corporeal body. It has a conceptual or abstract connotation.
Body in the general sense then. "Body of work". "Body of literature". Like kaya.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.

吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:56 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:53 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:29 pm
当体
Literally, 'this body'.
But this is not corporeal body. It has a conceptual or abstract connotation.
Body in the general sense then. "Body of work". "Body of literature". Like kaya.
Good question... Actually for Kaya they use the character that implies corporeal body...
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:24 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:56 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:53 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:29 pm
当体
Literally, 'this body'.
But this is not corporeal body. It has a conceptual or abstract connotation.
Body in the general sense then. "Body of work". "Body of literature". Like kaya.
Good question... Actually for Kaya they use the character that implies corporeal body...
It is also highly related to essence-function, see recent post here.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.

吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by illarraza » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:19 am

From the Entity of the Mystic Law...

"The Buddha who is the entity of Myoho-renge-kyo, of the “Life Span” chapter of the essential teaching, who is both inhabiting subject and inhabited realm, life and environment, body and mind, entity and function, the Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies—he is to be found in the disciples and lay believers of Nichiren."

Remarkable... "The Buddha who is the entity of Myoho renge kyo" and not Myoho renge kyo who is the entity of the Buddha. Then, a few paragraphs later, we read:

Question: Since the beginning of the kalpa of continuance, has anyone become enlightened to the lotus that is the entity of the Mystic Law?

Answer: Shakyamuni Buddha became enlightened to this lotus that is the entity of the Mystic Law numberless major world system dust particle kalpas in the past, and in age after age and lifetime after lifetime, declared that he had attained the way and revealed the fundamental principle he had realized with his enlightened wisdom.

In our present world as well, he appeared in the kingdom of Magadha in central India, intending to reveal this lotus of the Mystic Law. But the people lacked the proper capacity, and the time was not right. Therefore, he drew distinctions regarding this lotus of the single Law and expounded it as three kinds of flowers, delivering to the people the provisional teachings of the three vehicles. For over forty years he guided and led them with these temporary teachings according to their capacities. During this period, because the capacities of the people he addressed were so varied, he bestowed upon them the various flowers and plants of the provisional teachings, but he never spoke of Myoho-renge. That is why, in the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, the Buddha said: “In the past I sat upright in the place of meditation [for six years] under the bodhi tree [and was able to gain supreme perfect enlightenment . . . But] in these more than forty years, I have not yet revealed the truth.”

But when he preached the Lotus Sutra, he cast aside the various plants and flowers of the Hinayana doctrines and the provisional teachings, which correspond to the expedient means of the four flavors and three teachings, and explained the unique doctrine of Myoho-renge. When he opened the three figurative lotuses to reveal the single lotus of Myoho-renge, the people of the provisional teachings with their four flavors and three teachings were able to gain the lotus of the first of the ten stages of security. Not until he revealed the lotus of “opening the near and revealing the distant” were they able to obtain the lotus of the highest result, advancing to the second stage of security, the third stage of security, the tenth stage, the stage of near-perfect enlightenment, and finally, the highest stage of perfect enlightenment."

Food for thought

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:07 pm

illarraza wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:19 am
Remarkable... "The Buddha who is the entity of Myoho renge kyo" and not Myoho renge kyo who is the entity of the Buddha.
Look a bit later on though:

The Buddha who is the entity of Myoho-renge-kyo, of the “Life Span” chapter of the essential teaching, who is both inhabiting subject and inhabited realm, life and environment, body and mind, entity and function, the Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies—he is to be found in the disciples and lay believers of Nichiren.

If the True Buddha is inhabiting both subject and object, inside and outside, body and mind, essence and function, why not would he be also inhabiting subject, inside, body, and essence/entity of disciples and laity? Do you object to this "inhabiting" itself? Why is it important that one by the 'entity' of the other and not also the other way around?
illarraza wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:19 am
But when he preached the Lotus Sutra, he cast aside the various plants and flowers of the Hinayana doctrines and the provisional teachings, which correspond to the expedient means of the four flavors and three teachings, and explained the unique doctrine of Myoho-renge.
This is certainly an interesting argument, for the sheer sake that it is, with one reading, completely and absolutely unambiguously correct in light of anything that I can clarify as being what I suspect is right view with regards to Nichiren Buddhism. At the same time, however, what exactly is this action of casting aside and how are various plants and flower cast aside? That is 'casting aside' in this context is what I ask when I read that statement.

The Venerable Nichiren quotes the Venerable Śubhakarasiṃha in "The Opening of the Eyes". He clarifies his quotation with the caveat that the Venerable Nāgārjuna and others have already established a precedence for the relationship between the Sanskrit sad (as in saddharma) and 'six' (they are homonyms). Because myō is sad:
Myō means perfect endowment. Six refers to the six pāramitās representing all the ten thousand practices. When people ask to hear the teaching of perfect endowment, they are asking how they may gain the perfect endowment of the six pāramitās and ten thousand practices of the bodhisattvas. In the phrase “perfect endowment,” endowment refers to the mutual possession of the Ten Worlds, while perfect means that, since there is mutual possession of the Ten Worlds, then any one world contains all the other worlds, indicating that this is “perfect.” The Lotus Sutra is a single work consisting of eight volumes, twenty-eight chapters, and 69,384 characters. Each and every character is endowed with the character myō, each being a Buddha who has the thirty-two features and eighty characteristics. Each of the Ten Worlds manifests its own Buddhahood. As Miao-lo writes, “Since even Buddhahood is present in all living beings, then all the other worlds are of course present, too.”
So how exactly does Ven Nichiren discard the various plants and flowers of hīnayāna & bodhisattvayāna? I am hardly any kind of authority on any manner, so treat my speculations as simply that, but it seems here we have a precedence for the focussed-practice, or one could argue 'definitive practice' of 南無妙法蓮華經 discarding the necessity of reliance on an expedient by containing that expedient within itself, ironically one could say, in a more 'expedient' manner.

Myō embodying the six pāramitāḥ can also be an effective strategy to safeguard right view. Consider the words of President Toda Jōsei in his Lecture on the Sutra from chapter 1:
Another striking difference is found in the method of’ teaching. Shakyamuni led his disciples to the Hokekyo with provisional teachings but the Daishonin declared the law of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo once for all. Buddhist teachings to guide His people.

Shakyamuni was the first Buddha in recorded history, but from the viewpoint of eternal life clarified in Buddhism, Nichiren Daishonin is the original Buddha who awakened all other Buddhas to the truth of ‘life’ and the universe. The relationship between the two is comparable to that of the moon shining in the nocturnal sky and its reflection on the surface of a pond.

This is obvious from a phrase from the Juryo Chapter of the Hokekyo which reads, "Once I also practiced the Bodhisattva austerities." (Ga hon gyo bosatsu do). If he actually "practiced Bodhisattva austerities," he must have done so under some other Buddha. Yet, if he were the original Buddha, he would have made himself the object of worship. This is obviously irreconcilable. The truth is that he practiced Buddhism under the True Buddha who emerged in Mappo as Nichiren Daishonin.
Pres Toda would not be able to argue this if 妙 is the six pāramitāḥ. Is he going to argue that the True Buddha does not preach 南無妙法蓮華經?

Now how it is the six pāramitāḥ I could not say.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.

吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Queequeg » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:58 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:07 pm
Now how it is the six pāramitāḥ I could not say.
The Immeasurable Meanings Sutra states, “Although they have not yet been able to practice the six pāramitās, the six pāramitās will of themselves appear before them.” The Lotus Sutra says, “All wish to hear the teaching of perfect endowment.” The Nirvana Sutra states, “Sad indicates perfect endowment.” Bodhisattva Nāgārjuna comments, “Sad signifies six.” The Profound Meaning of the Four Mahayana Treatises states, “Sad connotes six. In India the number six implies perfect endowment.” In his commentary Chi-tsang writes, “Sad is translated as perfect endowment.” The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai remarks, “Sad is a Sanskrit word, which is translated as myo, or wonderful.” If I add my own interpretation, it will be as if I had profaned these passages, but in essence they mean that Shakyamuni’s practices and the virtues he consequently attained are all contained within the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo. If we believe in these five characters, we will naturally be granted the same benefits as he was.
Kanjin no Honzon sho
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:54 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:58 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:07 pm
Now how it [i.e. 南無妙法蓮華經 Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō] is the six pāramitāḥ I could not say.
If I [Ven Nichiren] add my own interpretation, it will be as if I had profaned these passages, but in essence they mean that Shakyamuni’s practices and the virtues he consequently attained are all contained within the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo.
Kanjin no Honzon sho
Further substantiation of the interesting uniqueness of Pres Toda's Buddhological claim?

I don't want to inadvertently be participating in a pile-up by myself. Is he drawing from a tradition in making these claims? Namely, that the True Buddha does not and/or did not practice bodhisattayāna?

I am sorry if this is a tangent. If so, my apologies.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.

吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:25 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:54 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:58 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:07 pm
Now how it [i.e. 南無妙法蓮華經 Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō] is the six pāramitāḥ I could not say.
If I [Ven Nichiren] add my own interpretation, it will be as if I had profaned these passages, but in essence they mean that Shakyamuni’s practices and the virtues he consequently attained are all contained within the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo.
Kanjin no Honzon sho
Further substantiation of the interesting uniqueness of Pres Toda's Buddhological claim?

I don't want to inadvertently be participating in a pile-up by myself. Is he drawing from a tradition in making these claims? Namely, that the True Buddha does not and/or did not practice bodhisattayāna?

I am sorry if this is a tangent. If so, my apologies.
Not your fault. The ambiguity is baked in. Its closely related to the Original Buddha that sent Minobu down the rabbit hole... and I hope I'm not opening that vortex again in mentioning this.

In one sense, the Buddha is timeless, non-arising, non-perishing. In another sense, Buddhahood is the fruit of the bodhisattva career; can't have Buddha without the bodhisattva career that preceded it. On the other hand, the bodhisattva career was all just upaya, and he Buddha is non-arising and non-perishing. But that is the fruit of bodhisattva practice. That was just a miraculous display. Inside of a tale. Told in a novel. Transcribed from a story told by a bard around a campfire. That he heard from his mentor... etc. never ending story.

People break their brains trying to reconcile these things, tending toward one of these extremes or the other in an effort to find some solid ground on which to park themselves and find deliverance... Their brains can't handle two incompatible thoughts at the same time.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by narhwal90 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:01 pm

The Nichiren Mandala Workshop has some new material out, a series of essays here by Ken Mandara;

http://nichirenmandala.weebly.com/

which offers another perspective on the Nichiren schools in general, and spends a good bit of time on SGI & Shoshu wrt personalities and events both recent and ancient. I've not read thru the essays closely yet but I find it refreshing to learn about the complexities & contradictions of the wider Nichiren community. The perspective on the SGI/Shoshu alignment of views in comparison to the other schools is quite interesting. For those curious about the other forms of Nichiren mandala, the 4th essay has a number of color images of gohonzon created by the chief disciples and others. The more you look the more there is to see :)

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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Minobu » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:31 pm

narhwal90 wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:01 pm
The Nichiren Mandala Workshop has some new material out, a series of essays here by Ken Mandara;

http://nichirenmandala.weebly.com/

which offers another perspective on the Nichiren schools in general, and spends a good bit of time on SGI & Shoshu wrt personalities and events both recent and ancient. I've not read thru the essays closely yet but I find it refreshing to learn about the complexities & contradictions of the wider Nichiren community. The perspective on the SGI/Shoshu alignment of views in comparison to the other schools is quite interesting. For those curious about the other forms of Nichiren mandala, the 4th essay has a number of color images of gohonzon created by the chief disciples and others. The more you look the more there is to see :)
WOWZA!!!!!
another fine and extraordinary contribution from narhwal

thank you..it would do well in the links and reference section.

un friggin believable amount of of of of reading imposed on on on on this seeker of the Fine Faith of Nichiren Daishonin.

sorry for stuttering i'm excited!

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Minobu
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Re: the Entity of the Mystic Law

Post by Minobu » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:55 pm

From deep within a rabbit hole..Minobu cries for help...


from :
The Journal of Nichiren Buddhist Studies
A main point of contention is the controversy of the
Original Buddha being identified with either Nichiren or the Eternal Śākyamuni. Such ideas took
shape way after Nichiren and his direct disciples passed away and are just another example of
strategies for legitimation
hmmmmm....

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