Gohonzon Scroll question

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Minobu
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Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Minobu » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:28 pm

I never was around five years ago and i started to read this thread Printing a gohonzon.
An interesting thought occured to me in the OP.

first up as most here know i no longer have a Scroll Gohonzon or Butsudan.
I use my computer and concentrate on the fact the characters are representative of *Stuff* //***inside*** //of// *******me********* .
It actually was beneficial in me coming to terms with i had to believe this cause i did not have a scroll.

now the thought...

I want to build a butsudan and alter and prepare for an enshrinement of gohonzon..

I've come to the conclusion that yes this is all inside us...BUT!!!!

Can your enshrined area become a Kaidan ..i think thats the word for all the entities depicted in the Lotus Sutra Dwelling in that space.

so like a proper gohonzon can it become an actual place where these deities can dwell...

so like they are no longer Sumi ink characters but actual Buddhas and other beings ...

i believe so and wish to do this all proper one more time in my life...third time would be a charm hopefully.


also i wonder at times if i am doing a good thing...like it's been happening for almost two years now...is this good for everyone or am i harming myself and others.

when i say myself and others...whole other topic...when we do anything ..or think anything...we are benefitting us and others or harming us and others...everything is connected..

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Queequeg
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Queequeg » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:13 pm

Minobu wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:28 pm
I want to build a butsudan and alter and prepare for an enshrinement of gohonzon..

I've come to the conclusion that yes this is all inside us...BUT!!!!

Can your enshrined area become a Kaidan ..i think thats the word for all the entities depicted in the Lotus Sutra Dwelling in that space.
Kaidan means "ordination platform" and usually refers to the place where monks take their vows.

In Nichiren practice, it has that meaning, but it also has a more expansive meaning related to Bodhimanda, the place where enlightenment is achieved.

In Nichiren's practice, the place of practice is the ceremony in the air where all beings are in attendance on the revelation of the Lotus Sutra. The Gohonzon is an abbreviated picture of that ceremony, including all of the deities you seem to refer to.
so like they are no longer Sumi ink characters but actual Buddhas and other beings ...


Exactly. Which is why images of the Gohonzon should not be treated casually in any circumstance.
also i wonder at times if i am doing a good thing...like it's been happening for almost two years now...is this good for everyone or am i harming myself and others.

when i say myself and others...whole other topic...when we do anything ..or think anything...we are benefitting us and others or harming us and others...everything is connected..
How could your practice of NMRK bring you harm?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Minobu
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Minobu » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:35 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:13 pm


How could your practice of NMRK bring you harm?
As always you make clear the path i am treading on.
thank you
Ta Very Much
Obrigado
Graci.
shukron .
merci..cannot forget i live in french culture as well.

anyway...not so much the NMRK practice but this whole gohonzon image generated on my computer..

it's weird at times....lol..
but i'm grateful beyond words at times that even though i frigged me life up so much and slandered the Lotus Sutra heavily once...
so here i am able to be back ...studying better than ever and practicing with a faith i never had before...
as per faith..yeah it grows and changes in all of us...and faith is faith eh!

and at least i can focus on the characters replaced with electric computer generated 00's and 01's instead of sumi ink...

lol..
so the harm is thus..am i slandering the gohonzon when i use it in this way....or did it finally morph into this for people like me now and in the distant future..am i some sort of inventor of the warp drive like pioneer out of star trek...lol..

maybe i'm a Jedi knight reborn in this galaxy with habits hard to get rid of...lol...

ok enough already with the nutso...

you do get me drift though ..eh?

narhwal90
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by narhwal90 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:36 pm

If its not slanderous to print a gohonzon in a book, or in a doc to be read on the computer for study, I don't see how it would be slanderous to chant to it. Retouching an image to remove noise and quantization for better quality printing is an interesting question tho, when does improving contrast/clarity/color turn into modifying the image? There are plenty of examples of original gohonzon showing retouching & repair & other modifications....

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Carlita
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Carlita » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:54 pm

Minobu wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:28 pm
I never was around five years ago and i started to read this thread Printing a gohonzon.
An interesting thought occured to me in the OP.

first up as most here know i no longer have a Scroll Gohonzon or Butsudan.
I use my computer and concentrate on the fact the characters are representative of *Stuff* //***inside*** //of// *******me********* .
It actually was beneficial in me coming to terms with i had to believe this cause i did not have a scroll.

now the thought...

I want to build a butsudan and alter and prepare for an enshrinement of gohonzon..

I've come to the conclusion that yes this is all inside us...BUT!!!!

Can your enshrined area become a Kaidan ..i think thats the word for all the entities depicted in the Lotus Sutra Dwelling in that space.

so like a proper gohonzon can it become an actual place where these deities can dwell...

so like they are no longer Sumi ink characters but actual Buddhas and other beings ...

i believe so and wish to do this all proper one more time in my life...third time would be a charm hopefully.


also i wonder at times if i am doing a good thing...like it's been happening for almost two years now...is this good for everyone or am i harming myself and others.

when i say myself and others...whole other topic...when we do anything ..or think anything...we are benefitting us and others or harming us and others...everything is connected..
I accidently posted the wrong area but the info on the other site I posted may help. As for the deities, the Gohonzon itself has all the deities. I tried drawing the gohonzon myself. O think the idea is not to use them as means for enlightement. Nichiren has a problem with other sects using Buddha statues. The emphasis is on Dharma so if the deities help understans the Dharma, I think its fine. If to replace it, then the gosho mentions that as a problem. To be continued...
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
:anjali:

narhwal90
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by narhwal90 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:10 am

Opinion wrt statuary as a gohonzon is divided in the Nichiren community. Some accept it, some don't- Nichiren didn't proscribe the practice. As an object of devotion there is a tradeoff to be made between an easily produced, copied, distributed paper scroll vs statuary. wrt statuary, a group of 4 bodhisattvas around Sakyamuni is perhaps the canonical case of a statuary gohonzon but a quick search shows many variations.

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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by dharmapdx » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:34 pm

That was me who resurrected the ancient thread about downloading a Gohonzon. Here's the story: no one responded to this thread that I started -- viewtopic.php?f=117&t=27755 -- so I did a search to see if maybe that question already been answered elsewhere. That led me to the ancient thread about downloading a Gohonzon. I saw a post that I liked in that thread and I indicated so. I guess I hadn't realize that by simply responding positively to one particular post I would resurrect the entire thread….

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Minobu
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Minobu » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:49 pm

Carlita wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:54 pm
O think the idea is not to use them as means for enlightenment. Nichiren has a problem with other sects using Buddha statues. The emphasis is on Dharma so if the deities help understand the Dharma, I think its fine. If to replace it, then the gosho mentions that as a problem. To be continued...
I feel it is twofold.

first up there are Deities who we get to chant with in attendance in front of a Gohonzon.

It's like once you start the call goes out and you enter the Mandala and all that is contained in that Mandala . It's for real , you are in the presence of All of Them.

Secound up all of these attributes of all these Buddhas and Deities are part and parcel to what you are, if they were not it would not be Buddhism. which is the study of what you are .


so think about this for a moment.
It's like exercising one muscle and that muscle gets all affected whilst you leave all the other muscles alone by not exercising them. That's like focusing on one deity.

So when we chant in front of gohonzon all those Deity attributes Master Nichiren Daishonin thought necessary to exercise in each of us is contained in the Mandala. They are represented in order to actually affect these attributes which are us. Deities , Buddhas , Bodhisattvas ,you, me, are Ichinen Sanzen .

Manjushri Wisdom is generating by you whilst chanting...thats just one...You get to utilize this aspect of yourself most effectively .


so the problem is like asking the Deities for help instead of exercising these aspects inside you cause they are you..some are more dominant than others depending on the person, and others dorment .

the blend is a perfect mix for this degenerative age.

praying to them is like begging and They know answering that begging is not helping .

it's like hanging out with real happy people when you are bummed...it rubs off on you...contact high...same with entering a home where death is about to occur and all the people are mourning and suffering...it rubs of on you and you feel it and become it whilst there and when you leave you feel bad...

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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Queequeg » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:03 pm

dharmapdx wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:34 pm
That was me who resurrected the ancient thread about downloading a Gohonzon. Here's the story: no one responded to this thread that I started -- viewtopic.php?f=117&t=27755 -- so I did a search to see if maybe that question already been answered elsewhere. That led me to the ancient thread about downloading a Gohonzon. I saw a post that I liked in that thread and I indicated so. I guess I hadn't realize that by simply responding positively to one particular post I would resurrect the entire thread….
No worries. :smile:
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Queequeg » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:26 pm

Carlita wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:54 pm
Nichiren has a problem with other sects using Buddha statues. The emphasis is on Dharma so if the deities help understans the Dharma, I think its fine. If to replace it, then the gosho mentions that as a problem. To be continued...
There seems to be a misapprehension of what Nichiren taught.

First, honzon is a generic term referring to one's tutelary deity. It apparently is translated from Sanskrit - ishta-devata. In Tibet, its the term translated as yidam.

www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xpr-ddb.pl?q=本尊
username: guest; password: guest

Nichiren actually did not leave any writing objecting to anthropomorphic images of the honzon. There are letters addressed to Toki Jonin and Shijo Kingo praising them for producing statues of the Buddha.

Certain lineages of Nichiren tradition, particularly the lineages of Nikko Shonin, do not encourage anthropomorphic images of the honzon.

Nichiren's honzon is the Original Buddha. To the extent that certain schools of Buddhism took other Buddhas as their honzon, Nichiren criticized these as misguided in the Degenerate Age.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Carlita » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:17 pm

I think the idea is to bring present the deities from the scroll. I looked up the translation. Some of it is mixed with Japanese shinto gods such as the sun and moon god ane goddess. There are boddhisattvas etc. Nichiren Shoshu anthro.. the Gohonzon. SGI not so much. I dont know about the other traditions.

The practice is more on Diamoku. The Gohonzon is a tool thar summerizes The Lotus Sutra but true its not the Gohonzon. Which is tricky because Nichiren said that even saying one line of The Lotus Sutra leads one to enlightenment. The scroll is a mirror of that enlightenment but not the enlightenment itself.
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:26 pm
Carlita wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:54 pm
Nichiren has a problem with other sects using Buddha statues. The emphasis is on Dharma so if the deities help understans the Dharma, I think its fine. If to replace it, then the gosho mentions that as a problem. To be continued...
There seems to be a misapprehension of what Nichiren taught.

First, honzon is a generic term referring to one's tutelary deity. It apparently is translated from Sanskrit - ishta-devata. In Tibet, its the term translated as yidam.

www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xpr-ddb.pl?q=本尊
username: guest; password: guest

Nichiren actually did not leave any writing objecting to anthropomorphic images of the honzon. There are letters addressed to Toki Jonin and Shijo Kingo praising them for producing statues of the Buddha.

Certain lineages of Nichiren tradition, particularly the lineages of Nikko Shonin, do not encourage anthropomorphic images of the honzon.

Nichiren's honzon is the Original Buddha. To the extent that certain schools of Buddhism took other Buddhas as their honzon, Nichiren criticized these as misguided in the Degenerate Age.
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
:anjali:

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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Queequeg » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:25 pm

Carlita wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:17 pm
I think the idea is to bring present the deities from the scroll. I looked up the translation. Some of it is mixed with Japanese shinto gods such as the sun and moon god ane goddess. There are boddhisattvas etc. Nichiren Shoshu anthro.. the Gohonzon. SGI not so much. I dont know about the other traditions.
I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you are trying to communicate here.
The practice is more on Diamoku. The Gohonzon is a tool thar summerizes The Lotus Sutra but true its not the Gohonzon. Which is tricky because Nichiren said that even saying one line of The Lotus Sutra leads one to enlightenment. The scroll is a mirror of that enlightenment but not the enlightenment itself.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here either.

The Gohonzon is the Buddha. Its not a symbol, not a mirror.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Carlita
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Carlita » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:30 am

Carlita wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:17 pm
I think the idea is to bring present the deities from the scroll. I looked up the translation. Some of it is mixed with Japanese shinto gods such as the sun and moon god ane goddess. There are boddhisattvas etc. Nichiren Shoshu anthro.. the Gohonzon. SGI not so much. I dont know about the other traditions.

The practice is more on Diamoku. The Gohonzon is a tool thar summerizes The Lotus Sutra but true its not the Gohonzon. Which is tricky because Nichiren said that even saying one line of The Lotus Sutra leads one to enlightenment. The scroll is a mirror of that enlightenment but not the enlightenment itself.
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:26 pm
Carlita wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:54 pm
Nichiren has a problem with other sects using Buddha statues. The emphasis is on Dharma so if the deities help understans the Dharma, I think its fine. If to replace it, then the gosho mentions that as a problem. To be continued...
There seems to be a misapprehension of what Nichiren taught.

First, honzon is a generic term referring to one's tutelary deity. It apparently is translated from Sanskrit - ishta-devata. In Tibet, its the term translated as yidam.

www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xpr-ddb.pl?q=本尊
username: guest; password: guest

Nichiren actually did not leave any writing objecting to anthropomorphic images of the honzon. There are letters addressed to Toki Jonin and Shijo Kingo praising them for producing statues of the Buddha.

Certain lineages of Nichiren tradition, particularly the lineages of Nikko Shonin, do not encourage anthropomorphic images of the honzon.

Nichiren's honzon is the Original Buddha. To the extent that certain schools of Buddhism took other Buddhas as their honzon, Nichiren criticized these as misguided in the Degenerate Age.
Hmm. Here is the translation of the Gohonzon
https://www.sgi-usa.org/study-resources ... -gohonzon/

Its The Lotus Sutra. Each sanskrit, chinese, and japanese characters/words are different narratives and characters of The Lotus. That its in the Gosho. When you chant diamoku without the Gohonzon, it has the same affect because Nichiren said that the buddha is no other than the mind not seperate from it. So when you (people) chant to the Gohonzon, you are chanting to The Lotus Sutra. The bulk of the Lotus is the laws of karma and the law expressed in the suttas from the historical Buddha himself. So when you chant diamoku to the gohonzon, you are chanting to awaken the buddha nature in you.

So, the gohonzon isnt The Buddha, you are. Thats Gosho and Lotus and the Suttas speaking in unison. But thats how I practiced it.

The first part,

Since the deities are written on the Gohonzon, when one chants they are with the deities, devas, buddhas, and humans in The Ceremony in the Air in the Lotus Sutra itself. By chanting Gongyo and Diamoku, you "hear/read/recite" the Lotus as The Buddha said to do. In doing so, youre buddha nature is shown not through the Gohonzon but by Diamoku.

Im not saying you are wrong. I just see it differently. Book nerd.
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
:anjali:

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dharmapdx
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by dharmapdx » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:44 pm

Queequeg was born into the Soka Gakkai tradition. To my understanding, his mother helped bring SGI to the United States.

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Queequeg
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Queequeg » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:10 am

Carlita wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:30 am
So, the gohonzon isnt The Buddha, you are.
Again, I don't think you know what Honzon means. See above. See below.
The Gohonzon is described as follows:

The treasure tower sits in the air above the sahā world that the Buddha of the essential teaching [identified as the pure and eternal land]; Myoho-renge-kyo appears in the center of the tower with the Buddhas Shakyamuni and Many Treasures seated to the right and left, and, flanking them, the four bodhisattvas, followers of Shakyamuni, led by Superior Practices. Manjushrī, Maitreya, and the other bodhisattvas, who are all followers of the four bodhisattvas, are seated below. All the other major and minor bodhisattvas, whether they are disciples of the Buddha in his transient status or of the Buddhas of the other worlds, are like commoners kneeling on the ground in the presence of nobles and high-ranking court officials. The Buddhas who gathered from the other worlds in the ten directions all remain on the ground, showing that they are only temporary manifestations of the eternal Buddha and that their lands are transient, not eternal and unchanging.
Kanjin-no-honzon sho (Object for Contemplating the Mind)
In your letter you asked: “You have told me that an object of devotion should be made of Shakyamuni Buddha of the essential teaching, who attained enlightenment in the remote past, attended by the four bodhisattvas who sprang from the earth and who have been his disciples since that remote past. If this is correct, when is such an object of devotion to be established?”...

Now that we have entered the Latter Day of the Law, an object of devotion should be made of the original Buddha flanked by his original attendants, since, according to the Buddha’s golden words, this is the most appropriate time. Because this age corresponds to the predicted time, the Bodhisattvas of the Earth will appear soon and establish an object of devotion of the four bodhisattvas.
Shibosatsu shoryu sho (On Establishing the Four Bodhisattvas)
First, Japan and all the other countries throughout Jambudvīpa should all make the Shakyamuni Buddha of the essential teaching their object of devotion. In other words, the Shakyamuni and Many Treasures who appear in the treasure tower, all the other Buddhas, and the four bodhisattvas, including Superior Practices, will act as attendants to this Buddha.
Kaimoku sho
Shakyamuni, the World-Honored One of Great Enlightenment, is our august sovereign. It is he who is to be regarded as the object of devotion.
Tripitaka Master Shanwuwei
The Lotus Sutra is made up of 69,384 characters. Though in our eyes each individual character may appear to be no more than a character in black ink, in the Buddha’s eyes, each one is a Buddha.
Question: In the evil world of the latter age, what should ordinary men and women take as their object of devotion?

Answer: They should make the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra their object of devotion.

Question: In what sutra passage or what commentary of the Buddhist teachers is this view expressed?

Answer: The “Teacher of the Law” chapter in the fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra states: “Medicine King, in any place whatsoever where this sutra is preached, where it is read, where it is recited, where it is copied, or where a roll of it exists, in all such places there should be erected towers made of the seven kinds of gems, and they should be made very high and broad and well adorned. There is no need to enshrine the relics of the Buddha there. Why? Because in such towers the entire body of the Thus Come One is already present.”

The “Nature of the Thus Come One” chapter in the fourth volume of the Nirvana Sutra states: “And I say this, Kāshyapa. What the Buddhas take as their teacher is the Law. Therefore, the Thus Come Ones honor, respect, and make offerings to it. Since the Law is eternally abiding, the Buddhas [who became enlightened to the Law] are also eternally abiding.”

And the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai in his Method of Repentance through the Lotus Meditation says: “In the place of practice one should erect a suitably fashioned dais and place a copy of the Lotus Sutra on it. One need not adorn it with any statues of the Buddha, his relics, or copies of other scriptures. Simply place a copy of the Lotus Sutra there.”
Hokke mondo sho
Etc.

The Lotus Sutra = Daimoku = Original Buddha = Ichinen Sanzen = reality = mind. Its not so simple as saying "Gohonzon is me."
Since the deities are written on the Gohonzon, when one chants they are with the deities, devas, buddhas, and humans in The Ceremony in the Air in the Lotus Sutra itself. By chanting Gongyo and Diamoku, you "hear/read/recite" the Lotus as The Buddha said to do. In doing so, youre buddha nature is shown not through the Gohonzon but by Diamoku.
In one sense, when one invokes the Three Great Secret Laws, one is in attendance at the ceremony in the air, receiving the teaching. Its not figurative - the Gohonzon actually is the ceremony in the air. This is a common point that people have a hard time with - its not just a piece of paper.

In another sense, those deities are aspects of your mind as described through ichinen sanzen. The gohonzon actually is one's mind. This is because "mind" doesn't mean what people think in the ordinary sense. Mind in terms of ichinen sanzen describes the complete integration of mind/body, self/environment. The nature of mind and the nature of the teacher and teaching and our integration etc. is not what we who are raised with a secular/materialistic outlook are used to considering.

You referred to the gosho in which Nichiren instructed the recipient to not seek the Gohonzon outside their own flesh. This is the full passage:
Thus the five characters of the Lotus Sutra’s title are suspended in the center, while the four heavenly kings are seated at the four corners of the treasure tower. Shakyamuni, Many Treasures, and the four leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth are side by side at the top. Seated below them are the bodhisattvas, including Universal Worthy and Manjushrī, and the voice-hearers, including Shāriputra and Maudgalyāyana. [Beside them are] the gods of the sun and moon, the devil king of the sixth heaven, the dragon king, and an asura. In addition, the wisdom kings Immovable and Craving-Filled take up their stations to the south and north. The evil and treacherous Devadatta and the ignorant dragon king’s daughter form a group. Not only the Mother of Demon Children and the ten demon daughters, who are evil demons that sap the lives of people throughout the major world system, but also the Sun Goddess, Great Bodhisattva Hachiman, and the seven reigns of the heavenly gods and five reigns of the earthly gods, who are the guardian deities of Japan—all the various great and small gods, that is, the main gods, are ranged in rows. How then could the remaining subordinate gods be left out? The “Treasure Tower” chapter states, “[Shakyamuni Buddha used his transcendental powers to] lift all the members of the great assembly up into the air.”

Without exception, all these Buddhas, bodhisattvas, great sages, and, in general, all the various beings of the two worlds and the eight groups who appear in the “Introduction” chapter of the Lotus Sutra dwell in this Gohonzon. Illuminated by the light of the five characters of the Mystic Law, they display the dignified attributes that they inherently possess. This is the object of devotion.

This is what is meant when the sutra says “the true aspect of all phenomena.” Miao-lo stated: “The true aspect invariably manifests in all phenomena, and all phenomena invariably manifest in the ten factors. The ten factors invariably manifest in the Ten Worlds, and the Ten Worlds invariably manifest in life and its environment.” It is also stated that the profound principle of the true aspect is the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. The Great Teacher Dengyō said, “A single moment of life comprising the three thousand realms is itself the Buddha of limitless joy; this Buddha has forsaken august appearances.” Therefore, this Gohonzon shall be called the great mandala never before known; it did not appear until more than 2,220 years after the Buddha’s passing.

A woman who makes offerings to such a Gohonzon invites happiness in this life, and in the next, the Gohonzon will be with her and protect her always. Like a lantern in the dark, like a strong guide and porter on a treacherous mountain path, the Gohonzon will guard and protect you, Nichinyo, wherever you go. Therefore, you should take every care to ward off slanderers of the Law in the same way that you would never wish a courtesan even to come near your home. This is the meaning of “Thrust aside evil friends and associate with good companions.”

Never seek this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. The body is the palace of the ninth consciousness, the unchanging reality that reigns over all of life’s functions. To be endowed with the Ten Worlds means that all ten, without a single exception, exist in one world. Because of this it is called a mandala. Mandala is a Sanskrit word that is translated as “perfectly endowed” or “a cluster of blessings.” This Gohonzon also is found only in the two characters for faith. This is what the sutra means when it states that one can “gain entrance through faith alone.”
Real Aspect of the Gohonzon

The point is not that our ordinary notion of the mind is the Gohonzon, rather, the real aspect of our mind is the same as the Gohonzon.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Carlita
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Carlita » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:32 am

I found I cant delete this. Here is my reply in a nut shell.

I learned about all of this from practice both Nichiren Shoshu and SGI. Study and lots and lots of reading the Gosho, The Lotus Sutra itself, and the Pali Canon.

"Since the mind itself is the Buddha, and the Buddha is none other than the mind, what Buddha could there be outside yourself?”
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/13
Queequeg wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:10 am
Carlita wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:30 am
So, the gohonzon isnt The Buddha, you are.
Again, I don't think you know what Honzon means. See above. See below.
Here is the Gohonzon:

HAVE received the various articles that you so kindly sent.

I am entrusting you with a Gohonzon for the protection of your young child. This Gohonzon is the essence of the Lotus Sutra and the eye of all the scriptures. It is like the sun and the moon in the heavens, a great ruler on earth, the heart in a human being, the wish-granting jewel among treasures, and the pillar of a house.

When we have this mandala with us, it is a rule that all the Buddhas and gods will gather round and watch over us, protecting us like a shadow day and night, just as warriors guard their ruler, as parents love their children, as fish rely on water, as trees and grasses crave rain, and as birds depend on trees. You must trust in it with all your heart.

With my deep respect,

Nichiren

It's a scroll with the depiction of The Lotus Sutra specially Chapter 11th of The Lotus Sutra (TLS) The Ceremony in the Air.

"Without exception, all these Buddhas, bodhisattvas, great sages, and, in general, all the various beings of the two worlds and the eight groups2 who appear in the “Introduction” chapter of the Lotus Sutra dwell in this Gohonzon. Illuminated by the light of the five characters of the Mystic Law, they display the dignified attributes that they inherently possess. This is the object of devotion.?"
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/73

The Gohonzon is described as follows:

The treasure tower sits in the air above the sahā world that the Buddha of the essential teaching [identified as the pure and eternal land]; Myoho-renge-kyo appears in the center of the tower with the Buddhas Shakyamuni and Many Treasures seated to the right and left, and, flanking them, the four bodhisattvas, followers of Shakyamuni, led by Superior Practices. Manjushrī, Maitreya, and the other bodhisattvas, who are all followers of the four bodhisattvas, are seated below. All the other major and minor bodhisattvas, whether they are disciples of the Buddha in his transient status or of the Buddhas of the other worlds, are like commoners kneeling on the ground in the presence of nobles and high-ranking court officials. The Buddhas who gathered from the other worlds in the ten directions all remain on the ground, showing that they are only temporary manifestations of the eternal Buddha and that their lands are transient, not eternal and unchanging.
Kanjin-no-honzon sho (Object for Contemplating the Mind)

You can read The Lotus Sutra Ceremony in the Air here:
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/11

In your letter you asked: “You have told me that an object of devotion should be made of Shakyamuni Buddha of the essential teaching, who attained enlightenment in the remote past, attended by the four bodhisattvas who sprang from the earth and who have been his disciples since that remote past. If this is correct, when is such an object of devotion to be established?”...

Now that we have entered the Latter Day of the Law, an object of devotion should be made of the original Buddha flanked by his original attendants, since, according to the Buddha’s golden words, this is the most appropriate time. Because this age corresponds to the predicted time, the Bodhisattvas of the Earth will appear soon and establish an object of devotion of the four bodhisattvas.
Shibosatsu shoryu sho (On Establishing the Four Bodhisattvas)


Diamoku existed before the object of worship. The essense of the Gohonzon is Diamoku. Diamoku is The Lotus Sutra.

First, Japan and all the other countries throughout Jambudvīpa should all make the Shakyamuni Buddha of the essential teaching their object of devotion. In other words, the Shakyamuni and Many Treasures who appear in the treasure tower, all the other Buddhas, and the four bodhisattvas, including Superior Practices, will act as attendants to this Buddha.
Kaimoku sho


If the Gohonzon isn't the Lotus Sutra, what is it?
Shakyamuni, the World-Honored One of Great Enlightenment, is our august sovereign. It is he who is to be regarded as the object of devotion.
Tripitaka Master Shanwuwei
The Lotus Sutra is made up of 69,384 characters. Though in our eyes each individual character may appear to be no more than a character in black ink, in the Buddha’s eyes, each one is a Buddha.
You see yourself as the eyes of The Buddha through The Lotus Sutra

Question: In the evil world of the latter age, what should ordinary men and women take as their object of devotion?

Answer: They should make the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra their object of devotion.

Question: In what sutra passage or what commentary of the Buddhist teachers is this view expressed?

Answer: The “Teacher of the Law” chapter in the fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra states: “Medicine King, in any place whatsoever where this sutra is preached, where it is read, where it is recited, where it is copied, or where a roll of it exists, in all such places there should be erected towers made of the seven kinds of gems, and they should be made very high and broad and well adorned. There is no need to enshrine the relics of the Buddha there. Why? Because in such towers the entire body of the Thus Come One is already present.”

The “Nature of the Thus Come One” chapter in the fourth volume of the Nirvana Sutra states: “And I say this, Kāshyapa. What the Buddhas take as their teacher is the Law. Therefore, the Thus Come Ones honor, respect, and make offerings to it. Since the Law is eternally abiding, the Buddhas [who became enlightened to the Law] are also eternally abiding.”

And the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai in his Method of Repentance through the Lotus Meditation says: “In the place of practice one should erect a suitably fashioned dais and place a copy of the Lotus Sutra on it. One need not adorn it with any statues of the Buddha, his relics, or copies of other scriptures. Simply place a copy of the Lotus Sutra there.”
Hokke mondo sho
Etc.


Here is all of this in one lump some:

If someone with a believing and understanding mind accepts, upholds, reads, recites, and copies this sutra or causes others to copy it or offers alms to the sutra rolls, scattering flowers, incense, and powdered incense or constantly burning fragrant oil extracted from sumana, champaka...https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc ... 7#para-203

The Gohonzon (especially in Nichiren Shu sect) is the result of Nichiren doing what The Buddha wanted him to do: to read (study all the suttas and sutras), recite (Diamoku), and copy (Gohonzon) the sutras and copy it (as we have it now) and offer alms (offerings) so that our Buddha nature can be enlightened through the reflection of The Gohonzon which IS The Lotus Sutra.

The Lotus Sutra = Daimoku = Original Buddha = Ichinen Sanzen = reality = mind. Its not so simple as saying "Gohonzon is me."

I understand why you feel the way you do hence the word Go- in front of honzon. In my experience and practice learning about what The Gohonzon is and what's on it plus reading the sutras and suttas gave me grounding on what I am chanting to, why, and why is in important that transcends both schools of thought.

Since the deities are written on the Gohonzon, when one chants they are with the deities, devas, buddhas, and humans in The Ceremony in the Air in the Lotus Sutra itself. By chanting Gongyo and Diamoku, you "hear/read/recite" the Lotus as The Buddha said to do. In doing so, youre buddha nature is shown not through the Gohonzon but by Diamoku.

In one sense, when one invokes the Three Great Secret Laws, one is in attendance at the ceremony in the air, receiving the teaching. Its not figurative - the Gohonzon actually is the ceremony in the air. This is a common point that people have a hard time with - its not just a piece of paper.

Yes. I know. Nichiren Shoshu has the full immersion of being in the Ceremony in the Air when chanting. The Gohonzon is The Lotus Sutra.

It's not The Lotus Sutra is the Gohonzon. No. Diamoku and The Lotus Sutra existed before any words were copied for others to chant to.

Of course it's not just a piece of paper. I just see the difference between worshiping the scroll and worshiping The Lotus Sutra.

In another sense, those deities are aspects of your mind as described through ichinen sanzen. The gohonzon actually is one's mind. This is because "mind" doesn't mean what people think in the ordinary sense. Mind in terms of ichinen sanzen describes the complete integration of mind/body, self/environment. The nature of mind and the nature of the teacher and teaching and our integration etc. is not what we who are raised with a secular/materialistic outlook are used to considering.

I know that. With me, the mind is not outside oneself. Anything outside myself that I worship is a reflection of my buddha nature not my buddha nature itself. The Buddha and Nichiren talked against that. That's why Nichiren got sent to prison because he went against other religions and schools of his day. He said that Zen Masters etc were worshiping statues as if they bring enlightenment. These physical things are not what brings enlightenment. It's how we use them to reflect on our own Buddha nature which is our mind. Anything outside of the mind as an object of worship is going outside what Nichiren taught. Anything inside the mind that is a reflection of what Nichiren taught is what he promoted in his teachings. The Lotus Sutra is our mind/our buddha nature. When we chant Diamoku, that chant brings out our already inherit buddha nature. When we chant to the scroll, that scroll is The Lotus Sutra, and it is a written inscribed summary of us being at the ceremony (as you quoted) and that itself, not the scroll, is what brings enlightenment.

You referred to the gosho in which Nichiren instructed the recipient to not seek the Gohonzon outside their own flesh. This is the full passage:
Thus the five characters of the Lotus Sutra’s title are suspended in the center, while the four heavenly kings are seated at the four corners of the treasure tower. Shakyamuni, Many Treasures, and the four leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth are side by side at the top. Seated below them are the bodhisattvas, including Universal Worthy and Manjushrī, and the voice-hearers, including Shāriputra and Maudgalyāyana. [Beside them are] the gods of the sun and moon, the devil king of the sixth heaven, the dragon king, and an asura. In addition, the wisdom kings Immovable and Craving-Filled take up their stations to the south and north. The evil and treacherous Devadatta and the ignorant dragon king’s daughter form a group. Not only the Mother of Demon Children and the ten demon daughters, who are evil demons that sap the lives of people throughout the major world system, but also the Sun Goddess, Great Bodhisattva Hachiman, and the seven reigns of the heavenly gods and five reigns of the earthly gods, who are the guardian deities of Japan—all the various great and small gods, that is, the main gods, are ranged in rows. How then could the remaining subordinate gods be left out? The “Treasure Tower” chapter states, “[Shakyamuni Buddha used his transcendental powers to] lift all the members of the great assembly up into the air.”

Without exception, all these Buddhas, bodhisattvas, great sages, and, in general, all the various beings of the two worlds and the eight groups who appear in the “Introduction” chapter of the Lotus Sutra dwell in this Gohonzon. Illuminated by the light of the five characters of the Mystic Law, they display the dignified attributes that they inherently possess. This is the object of devotion.

This is what is meant when the sutra says “the true aspect of all phenomena.” Miao-lo stated: “The true aspect invariably manifests in all phenomena, and all phenomena invariably manifest in the ten factors. The ten factors invariably manifest in the Ten Worlds, and the Ten Worlds invariably manifest in life and its environment.” It is also stated that the profound principle of the true aspect is the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. The Great Teacher Dengyō said, “A single moment of life comprising the three thousand realms is itself the Buddha of limitless joy; this Buddha has forsaken august appearances.” Therefore, this Gohonzon shall be called the great mandala never before known; it did not appear until more than 2,220 years after the Buddha’s passing.

A woman who makes offerings to such a Gohonzon invites happiness in this life, and in the next, the Gohonzon will be with her and protect her always. Like a lantern in the dark, like a strong guide and porter on a treacherous mountain path, the Gohonzon will guard and protect you, Nichinyo, wherever you go. Therefore, you should take every care to ward off slanderers of the Law in the same way that you would never wish a courtesan even to come near your home. This is the meaning of “Thrust aside evil friends and associate with good companions.”

Never seek this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. The body is the palace of the ninth consciousness, the unchanging reality that reigns over all of life’s functions. To be endowed with the Ten Worlds means that all ten, without a single exception, exist in one world. Because of this it is called a mandala. Mandala is a Sanskrit word that is translated as “perfectly endowed” or “a cluster of blessings.” This Gohonzon also is found only in the two characters for faith. This is what the sutra means when it states that one can “gain entrance through faith alone.”
Real Aspect of the Gohonzon

The point is not that our ordinary notion of the mind is the Gohonzon, rather, the real aspect of our mind is the same as the Gohonzon.
Never seek this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.

The body is the palace of the ninth consciousness, the unchanging reality that reigns over all of life’s functions. To be endowed with the Ten Worlds means that all ten, without a single exception, exist in one world. Because of this it is called a mandala. Mandala is a Sanskrit word that is translated as “perfectly endowed” or “a cluster of blessings.”

This Gohonzon also is found only in the two characters for faith. This is what the sutra means when it states that one can “gain entrance through faith alone.”
[/quote]Real Aspect of the Gohonzon

This is my point.

It's not a debate. We see it differently. I can't worship an object. When I practice and study, I learned everything comes from the mind. Our mind, body, speech, and actions are all products of the mind. Nichiren knew this. So did The Buddha.

I just find it more simple to stick with the mind. It overlaps the Pali Canon and all the sutras. It's what Nichiren taught, his teacher, the Ten Tai sect. It's what Zen teaches and every other school. It's a mind thing.

Different cultures put emphasis on different aspects of worship. You see it in the Gohonzon, I see it in the mind. We are not wrong. In my opinion, I just find that worshiping an object as if it were the mind very odd compared to worshiping the mind as it reflects the truth of the object.
Last edited by Carlita on Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
:anjali:

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Carlita
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Carlita » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:48 am

I dont know how to seperate andcreate quotes. My comments are after -->
Queequeg wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:10 am
Carlita wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:30 am
So, the gohonzon isnt The Buddha, you are.
Again, I don't think you know what Honzon means. See above. See below.

-->See my post above
The Gohonzon is described as follows:

The treasure tower sits in the air above the sahā world that the Buddha of the essential teaching [identified as the pure and eternal land]; Myoho-renge-kyo appears in the center of the tower with the Buddhas Shakyamuni and Many Treasures seated to the right and left, and, flanking them, the four bodhisattvas, followers of Shakyamuni, led by Superior Practices. Manjushrī, Maitreya, and the other bodhisattvas, who are all followers of the four bodhisattvas, are seated below. All the other major and minor bodhisattvas, whether they are disciples of the Buddha in his transient status or of the Buddhas of the other worlds, are like commoners kneeling on the ground in the presence of nobles and high-ranking court officials. The Buddhas who gathered from the other worlds in the ten directions all remain on the ground, showing that they are only temporary manifestations of the eternal Buddha and that their lands are transient, not eternal and unchanging.
Kanjin-no-honzon sho (Object for Contemplating the Mind)

-->This talks about Diamoku not tye Gohonzon "scroll". The Ceremony in The Air. Its a good read in The Lotus Sutra itself.
In your letter you asked: “You have told me that an object of devotion should be made of Shakyamuni Buddha of the essential teaching, who attained enlightenment in the remote past, attended by the four bodhisattvas who sprang from the earth and who have been his disciples since that remote past. If this is correct, when is such an object of devotion to be established?”...

Now that we have entered the Latter Day of the Law, an object of devotion should be made of the original Buddha flanked by his original attendants, since, according to the Buddha’s golden words, this is the most appropriate time. Because this age corresponds to the predicted time, the Bodhisattvas of the Earth will appear soon and establish an object of devotion of the four bodhisattvas.
Shibosatsu shoryu sho (On Establishing the Four Bodhisattvas)

-->Talks about The Lotus. It has The Buddha's words in it. Nichiren always talks about diamoku.
First, Japan and all the other countries throughout Jambudvīpa should all make the Shakyamuni Buddha of the essential teaching their object of devotion. In other words, the Shakyamuni and Many Treasures who appear in the treasure tower, all the other Buddhas, and the four bodhisattvas, including Superior Practices, will act as attendants to this Buddha.
Kaimoku sho

Nods
Shakyamuni, the World-Honored One of Great Enlightenment, is our august sovereign. It is he who is to be regarded as the object of devotion.
Tripitaka Master Shanwuwei

The Lotus Sutra
The Lotus Sutra is made up of 69,384 characters. Though in our eyes each individual character may appear to be no more than a character in black ink, in the Buddha’s eyes, each one is a Buddha.
The Lotus sutra. It depicts the ceremony in the air: what you quoted above. Its the 1 1 th chapter of the Lotus.
Question: In the evil world of the latter age, what should ordinary men and women take as their object of devotion?

Answer: They should make the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra their object of devotion.

Question: In what sutra passage or what commentary of the Buddhist teachers is this view expressed?

Answer: The “Teacher of the Law” chapter in the fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra states: “Medicine King, in any place whatsoever where this sutra is preached, where it is read, where it is recited, where it is copied, or where a roll of it exists, in all such places there should be erected towers made of the seven kinds of gems, and they should be made very high and broad and well adorned. There is no need to enshrine the relics of the Buddha there. Why? Because in such towers the entire body of the Thus Come One is already present.”

The “Nature of the Thus Come One” chapter in the fourth volume of the Nirvana Sutra states: “And I say this, Kāshyapa. What the Buddhas take as their teacher is the Law. Therefore, the Thus Come Ones honor, respect, and make offerings to it. Since the Law is eternally abiding, the Buddhas [who became enlightened to the Law] are also eternally abiding.”

And the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai in his Method of Repentance through the Lotus Meditation says: “In the place of practice one should erect a suitably fashioned dais and place a copy of the Lotus Sutra on it. One need not adorn it with any statues of the Buddha, his relics, or copies of other scriptures. Simply place a copy of the Lotus Sutra there.”
Hokke mondo sho
Etc.

The Lotus Sutra = Daimoku = Original Buddha = Ichinen Sanzen = reality = mind. Its not so simple as saying "Gohonzon is me."
Since the deities are written on the Gohonzon, when one chants they are with the deities, devas, buddhas, and humans in The Ceremony in the Air in the Lotus Sutra itself. By chanting Gongyo and Diamoku, you "hear/read/recite" the Lotus as The Buddha said to do. In doing so, youre buddha nature is shown not through the Gohonzon but by Diamoku.
In one sense, when one invokes the Three Great Secret Laws, one is in attendance at the ceremony in the air, receiving the teaching. Its not figurative - the Gohonzon actually is the ceremony in the air. This is a common point that people have a hard time with - its not just a piece of paper.

In another sense, those deities are aspects of your mind as described through ichinen sanzen. The gohonzon actually is one's mind. This is because "mind" doesn't mean what people think in the ordinary sense. Mind in terms of ichinen sanzen describes the complete integration of mind/body, self/environment. The nature of mind and the nature of the teacher and teaching and our integration etc. is not what we who are raised with a secular/materialistic outlook are used to considering.

You referred to the gosho in which Nichiren instructed the recipient to not seek the Gohonzon outside their own flesh. This is the full passage:
Thus the five characters of the Lotus Sutra’s title are suspended in the center, while the four heavenly kings are seated at the four corners of the treasure tower. Shakyamuni, Many Treasures, and the four leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth are side by side at the top. Seated below them are the bodhisattvas, including Universal Worthy and Manjushrī, and the voice-hearers, including Shāriputra and Maudgalyāyana. [Beside them are] the gods of the sun and moon, the devil king of the sixth heaven, the dragon king, and an asura. In addition, the wisdom kings Immovable and Craving-Filled take up their stations to the south and north. The evil and treacherous Devadatta and the ignorant dragon king’s daughter form a group. Not only the Mother of Demon Children and the ten demon daughters, who are evil demons that sap the lives of people throughout the major world system, but also the Sun Goddess, Great Bodhisattva Hachiman, and the seven reigns of the heavenly gods and five reigns of the earthly gods, who are the guardian deities of Japan—all the various great and small gods, that is, the main gods, are ranged in rows. How then could the remaining subordinate gods be left out? The “Treasure Tower” chapter states, “[Shakyamuni Buddha used his transcendental powers to] lift all the members of the great assembly up into the air.”

Without exception, all these Buddhas, bodhisattvas, great sages, and, in general, all the various beings of the two worlds and the eight groups who appear in the “Introduction” chapter of the Lotus Sutra dwell in this Gohonzon. Illuminated by the light of the five characters of the Mystic Law, they display the dignified attributes that they inherently possess. This is the object of devotion.

This is what is meant when the sutra says “the true aspect of all phenomena.” Miao-lo stated: “The true aspect invariably manifests in all phenomena, and all phenomena invariably manifest in the ten factors. The ten factors invariably manifest in the Ten Worlds, and the Ten Worlds invariably manifest in life and its environment.” It is also stated that the profound principle of the true aspect is the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. The Great Teacher Dengyō said, “A single moment of life comprising the three thousand realms is itself the Buddha of limitless joy; this Buddha has forsaken august appearances.” Therefore, this Gohonzon shall be called the great mandala never before known; it did not appear until more than 2,220 years after the Buddha’s passing.

A woman who makes offerings to such a Gohonzon invites happiness in this life, and in the next, the Gohonzon will be with her and protect her always. Like a lantern in the dark, like a strong guide and porter on a treacherous mountain path, the Gohonzon will guard and protect you, Nichinyo, wherever you go. Therefore, you should take every care to ward off slanderers of the Law in the same way that you would never wish a courtesan even to come near your home. This is the meaning of “Thrust aside evil friends and associate with good companions.”

Never seek this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo


. The body is the palace of the ninth consciousness, the unchanging reality that reigns over all of life’s functions. To be endowed with the Ten Worlds means that all ten, without a single exception, exist in one world. Because of this it is called a mandala. Mandala is a Sanskrit word that is translated as “perfectly endowed” or “a cluster of blessings.” This Gohonzon also is found only in the two characters for faith. This is what the sutra means when it states that one can “gain entrance through faith alone.”
Real Aspect of the Gohonzon

The point is not that our ordinary notion of the mind is the Gohonzon, rather, the real aspect of our mind is the same as the Gohonzon.
Never seek this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo

Favorite quote among others.

The object of devotion is The Lotus Sutra. Nichiren imscribed The Lotus Sutra (The Ceremony in the Air) with his signature on The Gohonzon.

When we chant we chant The Lotus Sutra.

The Buddha says we should: read, write, and recite The Lotus Sutra. Nichiren says even one verse would do. Its all in diamoku not the physical scroll.

Its The Lotus Sutra
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
:anjali:

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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by marting » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:10 am

dharmapdx wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:44 pm
Queequeg was born into the Soka Gakkai tradition. To my understanding, his mother helped bring SGI to the United States.
Very cool. :thumbsup:

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Carlita
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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by Carlita » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:35 am

Don't know how to delete this. Sorry it's a mish mash of sorts. :oops:
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
:anjali:

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Re: Gohonzon Scroll question

Post by gohonzon » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:36 am

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:25 pm
Carlita wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:17 pm
I think the idea is to bring present the deities from the scroll. I looked up the translation. Some of it is mixed with Japanese shinto gods such as the sun and moon god ane goddess. There are boddhisattvas etc. Nichiren Shoshu anthro.. the Gohonzon. SGI not so much. I dont know about the other traditions.
I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you are trying to communicate here.
The practice is more on Diamoku. The Gohonzon is a tool thar summerizes The Lotus Sutra but true its not the Gohonzon. Which is tricky because Nichiren said that even saying one line of The Lotus Sutra leads one to enlightenment. The scroll is a mirror of that enlightenment but not the enlightenment itself.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here either.

The Gohonzon is the Buddha. Its not a symbol, not a mirror.

That is exactly on point. Nichiren Shoshu doctrines in its simplest explanation. The Dai Gohonzon and its consecrated copies are Nichiren Daishonin himself, the True Buddha, Sovereign Teacher and Parent. Hombutsu permeating Universe within universes. The essence of the Dai Gohonzon without the human physical form. He himself said he will never come back, that is why the Dai Gohonzon of the High Sanctuary is the True Buddha manifested for all beings seeking its fortune and karmic purity.

That is what I also learned in once upon a time in Soka Gakkai many decades ago, but no longer. They do still teach this important traditionalist doctrine in sometimes complicated words within Hokkeko. The Naisho of go Hombutsu.

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