"Without begrudging your life" - Nichiren on Persecution - From "Monastic Tibetan Buddhists Fear Death More"

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DGA
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"Without begrudging your life" - Nichiren on Persecution - From "Monastic Tibetan Buddhists Fear Death More"

Post by DGA » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:34 am

The Cicada wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:47 am
isn't there a long tradition within the Nichiren school of remonstrating with powerful people until they have the practitioner executed?
Is there? This could be an interesting discussion topic.

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Re: Monastic Tibetan Buddhists Fear Death More

Post by The Cicada » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:45 am

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 am
That's part of the inspiration. Lots of streams of thought coming together including extreme ascetic practices and concern about the unpredictability of the moment of death. TBH, I'm not sure anyone really understands what was going on. Still, these practices were common enough that its a rich source for academic output that makes for some interesting talks at AAS.
DGA wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:34 am
Is there? This could be an interesting discussion topic.
I only know of a few references from some Kempon material I've read. There's one priest in the line who took it upon himself to remonstrate with the emperor in his old age and a reference to a "record of martyrs" or something like that. I've also found references to people dying joyfully for the Lotus Sutra in some of the IBS materials. Nichiren even writes about the value of dying for the Lotus Sutra over worldly concerns and how this can be a cause for our enlightenment. I never looked into it deeply, but if you mine the subject I'm sure you'll find a great deal to cover. This might warrant a thread.

Banzai!
:namaste:

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Re: Monastic Tibetan Buddhists Fear Death More

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:56 am

The Cicada wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:45 am
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 am
That's part of the inspiration. Lots of streams of thought coming together including extreme ascetic practices and concern about the unpredictability of the moment of death. TBH, I'm not sure anyone really understands what was going on. Still, these practices were common enough that its a rich source for academic output that makes for some interesting talks at AAS.
DGA wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:34 am
Is there? This could be an interesting discussion topic.
I only know of a few references from some Kempon material I've read. There's one priest in the line who took it upon himself to remonstrate with the emperor in his old age and a reference to a "record of martyrs" or something like that. I've also found references to people dying joyfully for the Lotus Sutra in some of the IBS materials. Nichiren even writes about the value of dying for the Lotus Sutra over worldly concerns and how this can be a cause for our enlightenment. I never looked into it deeply, but if you mine the subject I'm sure you'll find a great deal to cover. This might warrant a thread.

Banzai!
:namaste:
Completely different practices and circumstances.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Re: Monastic Tibetan Buddhists Fear Death More

Post by The Cicada » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:10 am

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:56 am
The Cicada wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:45 am
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 am
That's part of the inspiration. Lots of streams of thought coming together including extreme ascetic practices and concern about the unpredictability of the moment of death. TBH, I'm not sure anyone really understands what was going on. Still, these practices were common enough that its a rich source for academic output that makes for some interesting talks at AAS.
DGA wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:34 am
Is there? This could be an interesting discussion topic.
I only know of a few references from some Kempon material I've read. There's one priest in the line who took it upon himself to remonstrate with the emperor in his old age and a reference to a "record of martyrs" or something like that. I've also found references to people dying joyfully for the Lotus Sutra in some of the IBS materials. Nichiren even writes about the value of dying for the Lotus Sutra over worldly concerns and how this can be a cause for our enlightenment. I never looked into it deeply, but if you mine the subject I'm sure you'll find a great deal to cover. This might warrant a thread.

Banzai!
:namaste:
Completely different practices and circumstances.
My post should have read "dying for the Lotus Sutra rather than" worldly concerns instead of "over," though this was meant in the sense of dying for the Lotus being preferred to dying for worldly concerns.

These martyr's deaths were within the Nichiren lineage. This is why this subject should have its own thread so that it can be examined in fine detail. DGA might get a paper out of this.

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Re: Monastic Tibetan Buddhists Fear Death More

Post by DGA » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:04 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:10 am
DGA might get a paper out of this.
Not me. I have reason to believe there are lurkers at DW who mine these discussions for ideas, though. Threads like this are like chum for them.

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Re: Monastic Tibetan Buddhists Fear Death More

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:22 pm

DGA wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:04 pm
The Cicada wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:10 am
DGA might get a paper out of this.
Not me. I have reason to believe there are lurkers at DW who mine these discussions for ideas, though. Threads like this are like chum for them.
DW needs some acknowledgement. And royalties.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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The Cicada
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Location: Trumpaloka

Re: Monastic Tibetan Buddhists Fear Death More

Post by The Cicada » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:28 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:41 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:21 am
Even steering the car away from the wall is dependent on countless more factors than just you turning the steering wheel.
I'm not wading in except to say, steering the car is the one essential cause for avoiding the crash. All other causes and conditions being the same without steering away leads to a crash.

Come on, G. Commitment to being contrarian just ends up stupid sometimes.
You and your complacent certainties...


Image
DGA wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:04 pm
The Cicada wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:10 am
DGA might get a paper out of this.
Not me. I have reason to believe there are lurkers at DW who mine these discussions for ideas, though. Threads like this are like chum for them.
All creepy goading aside, I think it's a crucial topic to understand. It seems that many individuals in the past chose to face death for their adherence to the Dharma rather than give it up in order to be spared. This speaks volumes about the significance the teaching had in their lives and how they resolved their existential dilemmas in the face of persecution. Some will see these martyrs as a bit off, but it says a lot about where they drew the lines on the influence of authority and society on their lives. At least in the Nichiren tradition, they seemed to be saying "Up to my mind and no further!" Some even ventured out into the larger society and to the halls of power to risk their lives to spread the teaching.

I think that exploring their reasons, and their circumstances, is worthy of consideration. But without a separate thread, all of this is just off topic.

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