Shodaigyo
Re: Shodaigyo
Maybe its obvious... but maybe it needs to be said.
The origin, the source, the apex, the point, of Nichiren's teaching is chanting the Daimoku before the Gohonzon. That is sokushinjobutsu - buddhahood in this body. Everything else we discuss is in comparison a provisional teaching. All this we discuss, and indeed all of the Buddha's teachings, all Truth, Buddhist and non-Buddhist, are expedient to that moment of reciting the Daimoku.
If you are not practicing, then all of this discussion we have here is like thinking and talking about doing something without actually doing anything.
Honbutsu is only found in that moment of practice. Everything else is just a poetic description. The poetic descriptions are helpful to explain and understand that experience of the moment of practice, to refine it, but useless when just left as words without referent.
The origin, the source, the apex, the point, of Nichiren's teaching is chanting the Daimoku before the Gohonzon. That is sokushinjobutsu - buddhahood in this body. Everything else we discuss is in comparison a provisional teaching. All this we discuss, and indeed all of the Buddha's teachings, all Truth, Buddhist and non-Buddhist, are expedient to that moment of reciting the Daimoku.
If you are not practicing, then all of this discussion we have here is like thinking and talking about doing something without actually doing anything.
Honbutsu is only found in that moment of practice. Everything else is just a poetic description. The poetic descriptions are helpful to explain and understand that experience of the moment of practice, to refine it, but useless when just left as words without referent.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Re: Shodaigyo
cannot find a meaning for Honbutso , even hereQueequeg wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 3:55 pm Maybe its obvious... but maybe it needs to be said.
The origin, the source, the apex, the point, of Nichiren's teaching is chanting the Daimoku before the Gohonzon. That is sokushinjobutsu - buddhahood in this body. Everything else we discuss is in comparison a provisional teaching. All this we discuss, and indeed all of the Buddha's teachings, all Truth, Buddhist and non-Buddhist, are expedient to that moment of reciting the Daimoku.
If you are not practicing, then all of this discussion we have here is like thinking and talking about doing something without actually doing anything.
Honbutsu is only found in that moment of practice. Everything else is just a poetic description. The poetic descriptions are helpful to explain and understand that experience of the moment of practice, to refine it, but useless when just left as words with out referent.
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... lgHidden=1
and you left us hanging here..
viewtopic.php?t=27844
whole heartedly agree this is needed to be said ...over and over....Queequeg wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 3:55 pm Maybe its obvious... but maybe it needs to be said.
The origin, the source, the apex, the point, of Nichiren's teaching is chanting the Daimoku before the Gohonzon. That is sokushinjobutsu - buddhahood in this body. Everything else we discuss is in comparison a provisional teaching. All this we discuss, and indeed all of the Buddha's teachings, all Truth, Buddhist and non-Buddhist, are expedient to that moment of reciting the Daimoku.
If you are not practicing, then all of this discussion we have here is like thinking and talking about doing something without actually doing anything.
Re: Shodaigyo
yeah i tried this as well.
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... lgHidden=1
sorry i cannot edit it right away...
but to keep the point intact i post this link as well due to spelling error
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... lgHidden=1
sorry i cannot edit it right away...
but to keep the point intact i post this link as well due to spelling error
Re: Shodaigyo
Ignore the stuff about Nichiren as true Buddha here, and this gives a good idea:
Honbutsu/Hombutsu (the difference has to do with the peculiarity of ん which can be pronounced "n" or "m" depending on context and dialect.)
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/T/262
This is relevant:
Honbutsu/Hombutsu (the difference has to do with the peculiarity of ん which can be pronounced "n" or "m" depending on context and dialect.)
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/T/262
This is relevant:
Opening the EyesWhen we come to the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra, then the belief that Shakyamuni first obtained Buddhahood during his present lifetime is demolished, and the effects of the four teachings are likewise demolished. When the effects of the four teachings are demolished, the causes of the four teachings are likewise demolished. Thus the cause and effect of the Ten Worlds as expounded in the earlier sutras and the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra are wiped out, and the cause and effect of the Ten Worlds in the essential teaching are revealed. This is the doctrine of original cause and original effect. It reveals that the nine worlds are all present in beginningless Buddhahood and that Buddhahood is inherent in the beginningless nine worlds. This is the true mutual possession of the Ten Worlds, the true hundred worlds and thousand factors, the true three thousand realms in a single moment of life.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Re: Shodaigyo
ok so like words ..Queequeg wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 5:18 pm Ignore the stuff about Nichiren as true Buddha here, and this gives a good idea:
Honbutsu/Hombutsu (the difference has to do with the peculiarity of ん which can be pronounced "n" or "m" depending on context and dialect.)
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/T/262
This is relevant:
Opening the EyesWhen we come to the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra, then the belief that Shakyamuni first obtained Buddhahood during his present lifetime is demolished, and the effects of the four teachings are likewise demolished. When the effects of the four teachings are demolished, the causes of the four teachings are likewise demolished. Thus the cause and effect of the Ten Worlds as expounded in the earlier sutras and the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra are wiped out, and the cause and effect of the Ten Worlds in the essential teaching are revealed. This is the doctrine of original cause and original effect. It reveals that the nine worlds are all present in beginningless Buddhahood and that Buddhahood is inherent in the beginningless nine worlds. This is the true mutual possession of the Ten Worlds, the true hundred worlds and thousand factors, the true three thousand realms in a single moment of life.
words are used to express a thing..in Buddhism sometimes a non thing...and so on...
so here we go...
original cause ..Buddhahood...the Hare Kirsna's talk of Godhead., my Irish catholic Grandmother referred to the Hand of God,
look up Atman and Paramatman ..an interesting Take on that subject of Paramatman Native Americans refer to The Great Spirit, known as Wakan Tanka
So many cultures and shamans , and philosophers, all pointing to "Something"..
I've been around here long enough to see the denial of God the Creator...and lately as i said quite shockingly a similarity..
Buddhists believe that the Original Cause is Buddhahood , or just Buddha Nature , or Buddha.
i don't know why for so many years it seemed to me...that people pussy footed around this subject in Buddhism...
I think it is due to the fact that Original Cause is not anything like a supreme being at it's initial Original Cause....
the human like aspect of it came later...????....!
Re: Shodaigyo
The Original Cause is Buddhahood... but what is the Effect? The Original Effect is Buddhahood.
This Original Cause is not comparable to Godhead or Hand of God or Great Spirit.
This does not explain the origin of everything. It just explains that Buddha Wisdom is coextensive with Reality, not a proposition about how it was created.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Re: Shodaigyo
This is not remarkable. This is just people coming to the conclusion that this must come from something, because we look around and we observe cause and effect. The problem is they analyze and go back as far as they can, and they come to an impenetrable wall - a loss of information. The common work around is to take everything they don't know about the past and put it in a basket that they call "God" or "Brahma" or "Great Spirit" or "Big Bang".. or whatever.
What is remarkable about Buddha is that he said, "What does it matter? You've got a poison arrow in your eye. Pull it out or you're gonna die."
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Re: Shodaigyo
i agree with you...totally...but i just want to express that this original cause was never expressed to me as it is being expressed now...Queequeg wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 5:43 pmThis is not remarkable. This is just people coming to the conclusion that this must come from something, because we look around and we observe cause and effect. The problem is they analyze and go back as far as they can, and they come to an impenetrable wall - a loss of information. The common work around is to take everything they don't know about the past and put it in a basket that they call "God" or "Brahma" or "Great Spirit" or "Big Bang".. or whatever.
What is remarkable about Buddha is that he said, "What does it matter? You've got a poison arrow in your eye. Pull it out or you're gonna die."
yah Buddha got it right in what He taught...but...He just made clear what others were wondering about.
Re: Shodaigyo
It was there... maybe you didn't quite catch it.Minobu wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 5:52 pmi agree with you...totally...but i just want to express that this original cause was never expressed to me as it is being expressed now...Queequeg wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 5:43 pmThis is not remarkable. This is just people coming to the conclusion that this must come from something, because we look around and we observe cause and effect. The problem is they analyze and go back as far as they can, and they come to an impenetrable wall - a loss of information. The common work around is to take everything they don't know about the past and put it in a basket that they call "God" or "Brahma" or "Great Spirit" or "Big Bang".. or whatever.
What is remarkable about Buddha is that he said, "What does it matter? You've got a poison arrow in your eye. Pull it out or you're gonna die."
yah Buddha got it right in what He taught...but...He just made clear what others were wondering about.
Think about the juzu. The juzu represent the human being, with 108 desires. We loop them around the middle fingers and twist it in the middle forming the infinity symbol, and then join our hands in the mudra for the closed Lotus calyx symbolizing the instantaneous original cause and original effect.
boom.
It was literally right there in your hands the whole time.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Re: Shodaigyo
what you take for granted...i cherish....you know what that is?Queequeg wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 6:01 pmIt was there... maybe you didn't quite catch it.Minobu wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 5:52 pmi agree with you...totally...but i just want to express that this original cause was never expressed to me as it is being expressed now...Queequeg wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 5:43 pm
This is not remarkable. This is just people coming to the conclusion that this must come from something, because we look around and we observe cause and effect. The problem is they analyze and go back as far as they can, and they come to an impenetrable wall - a loss of information. The common work around is to take everything they don't know about the past and put it in a basket that they call "God" or "Brahma" or "Great Spirit" or "Big Bang".. or whatever.
What is remarkable about Buddha is that he said, "What does it matter? You've got a poison arrow in your eye. Pull it out or you're gonna die."
yah Buddha got it right in what He taught...but...He just made clear what others were wondering about.
Think about the juzu. The juzu represent the human being, with 108 desires. We loop them around the middle fingers and twist it in the middle forming the infinity symbol, and then join our hands in the mudra for the closed Lotus calyx symbolizing the instantaneous original cause and original effect.
boom.
It was literally right there in your hands the whole time.
all the work you put into understanding something...correctly...lucidly...and sharing it with the world...
you have fixed so much of me....
it might have been in the palm of my hand...but NO ONE TAUGHT ME !!!!!!
(deletes gakki rant)
Re: Shodaigyo
There's the story in the Lotus Sutra about the rich merchant who goes out drinking with his friend. In the morning, the merchant must leave on business, and not wanting to wake his friend, he takes a priceless jewel and sews it into the hem of his shirt. Years go by and the friend, penniless and destitute, wanders the streets. The merchant returns and is distressed to see his friend like that and tells him, "Look in the hem of your shirt. I left that for you because I wanted you to be taken care of while I was gone."
All that misfortune for nothing.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Re: Shodaigyo
Not a practice of Nichiren. Not found anywhere in the Gosho. Shodaigyo is Nichiren Shu practice first developed ~ 1950 ("Nichiren Shu today more often than not the practice of shikan is part of Shodaigyo meditation, though that practice only goes back to the 1950′s." - Rev. Ryuei)
Mark
Mark
Re: Shodaigyo
I don't know what Rev. Ryuei is referring to by "shikan", but Nichiren wrote this:illarraza wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:13 am Not a practice of Nichiren. Not found anywhere in the Gosho. Shodaigyo is Nichiren Shu practice first developed ~ 1950 ("Nichiren Shu today more often than not the practice of shikan is part of Shodaigyo meditation, though that practice only goes back to the 1950′s." - Rev. Ryuei)
Mark
"As a daily religious practice, one should recite the daimoku, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. Those persons who are able to do so should further recite a verse or a phrase of the Lotus Sutra. As a supplementary practice, if one wishes, one may offer praise for Shakyamuni Buddha, Many Treasures Buddha, or the Buddhas of the ten directions, for all the various bodhisattvas or the persons of the two vehicles, the heavenly beings, the dragon deities, or the eight kinds of nonhuman beings [who protect Buddhism]. Since we live in an age when there are many uninformed people, there is no need for believers to attempt at once to practice the meditation on the three thousand realms in a single moment of life, though if there are persons who wish to do so, they should learn how to practice this type of meditation and carry it out."
Nichiren, On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra
Does Shodaigyo match Maka Shikan? That's might be an interesting inquiry.
From what I gather, Shodaigyo is Daimoku bookended by breath following meditation.
Your head will not be split in seven pieces nor will you fall into hell for following your breath, anymore than stretching in yoga poses will turn you into an icchantika. Breath following meditation has all sorts of beneficial effects, including enhancing Daimoku practice.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Re: Shodaigyo
You would have to ask Ryuei but I think what he means that before the 1950s, the Nichiren Shu only chanted the Daimoku. You would have to ask him. Vippisana as well as Yoga does cause the believer to enter the Avici Hell. The Lotus Sutra practice of Nichiren is an exclusive faith and practice for a reason.Queequeg wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:27 pmI don't know what Rev. Ryuei is referring to by "shikan", but Nichiren wrote this:illarraza wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:13 am Not a practice of Nichiren. Not found anywhere in the Gosho. Shodaigyo is Nichiren Shu practice first developed ~ 1950 ("Nichiren Shu today more often than not the practice of shikan is part of Shodaigyo meditation, though that practice only goes back to the 1950′s." - Rev. Ryuei)
Mark
"As a daily religious practice, one should recite the daimoku, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. Those persons who are able to do so should further recite a verse or a phrase of the Lotus Sutra. As a supplementary practice, if one wishes, one may offer praise for Shakyamuni Buddha, Many Treasures Buddha, or the Buddhas of the ten directions, for all the various bodhisattvas or the persons of the two vehicles, the heavenly beings, the dragon deities, or the eight kinds of nonhuman beings [who protect Buddhism]. Since we live in an age when there are many uninformed people, there is no need for believers to attempt at once to practice the meditation on the three thousand realms in a single moment of life, though if there are persons who wish to do so, they should learn how to practice this type of meditation and carry it out."
Nichiren, On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra
Does Shodaigyo match Maka Shikan? That's might be an interesting inquiry.
From what I gather, Shodaigyo is Daimoku bookended by breath following meditation.
Your head will not be split in seven pieces nor will you fall into hell for following your breath, anymore than stretching in yoga poses will turn you into an icchantika. Breath following meditation has all sorts of beneficial effects, including enhancing Daimoku practice.
Mark
Re: Shodaigyo
Please explain these statements. Support with proof.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Re: Shodaigyo
Queequeg wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:27 pmI don't know what Rev. Ryuei is referring to by "shikan", but Nichiren wrote this:illarraza wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:13 am Not a practice of Nichiren. Not found anywhere in the Gosho. Shodaigyo is Nichiren Shu practice first developed ~ 1950 ("Nichiren Shu today more often than not the practice of shikan is part of Shodaigyo meditation, though that practice only goes back to the 1950′s." - Rev. Ryuei)
Mark
"As a daily religious practice, one should recite the daimoku, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. Those persons who are able to do so should further recite a verse or a phrase of the Lotus Sutra. As a supplementary practice, if one wishes, one may offer praise for Shakyamuni Buddha, Many Treasures Buddha, or the Buddhas of the ten directions, for all the various bodhisattvas or the persons of the two vehicles, the heavenly beings, the dragon deities, or the eight kinds of nonhuman beings [who protect Buddhism]. Since we live in an age when there are many uninformed people, there is no need for believers to attempt at once to practice the meditation on the three thousand realms in a single moment of life, though if there are persons who wish to do so, they should learn how to practice this type of meditation and carry it out."
Nichiren, On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra
Does Shodaigyo match Maka Shikan? That's might be an interesting inquiry.
From what I gather, Shodaigyo is Daimoku bookended by breath following meditation.
Your head will not be split in seven pieces nor will you fall into hell for following your breath, anymore than stretching in yoga poses will turn you into an icchantika. Breath following meditation has all sorts of beneficial effects, including enhancing Daimoku practice.
I had much the same impression of shodaigyo as daimoku/recitiation with breath-following and visualization meditations to back it up. I don't get the sense its a good match for 3 Truths or ichinen sanzen meditation, more like its well-specified formal practice that can be simplified as a basis for daily individual practice. It might be more a correlate to shikan but even so the presence of daimoku brings a different focus I think.
I think the 3-truths, ichinen sanzen meditations definitely need a lot of scholarship in preparation, as Nichiren alludes.