Shodaigyo

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Queequeg
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Shodaigyo

Post by Queequeg » Fri May 04, 2018 7:46 pm

TOPIC SPLIT FROM "WHAT TO CHANT"

Possibly relevant to the OP.

http://www.shodaigyo.org/

I just ordered and received this book:

http://www.lulu.com/shop/tairyu-gondo/t ... 68037.html

Outstanding.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Minobu
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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by Minobu » Sat May 05, 2018 4:10 am

i've sort of heard of this...

can you explain the silent meditation part...
how do they relax one's mind , or quiet it...what method...

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Queequeg
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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by Queequeg » Sat May 05, 2018 1:10 pm

Not really. Just started learning about this myself.

Rev. Kumakura in NYC leads Shodaigyo on Wednesdays at 7 pm. You can tune in by Skype. I'm going to try to make it but... Kids.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

narhwal90
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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by narhwal90 » Sat May 05, 2018 5:17 pm

Just ordered a copy too, thanks Q. Should be very interesting 😀

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Minobu
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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by Minobu » Sat May 05, 2018 6:02 pm

I looked around the internet..

basic vipassana style stuff..

it's how we should be practicing...mindfullness...

it's like what Q and i also said ..
Minobu wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:15 pm

exactly but it is important to note how one actually practices the practice.

All buddhist practice whether it be tantra or simple vipassana requires the technique of focusing the mind on the simple task at hand.

observing....
Queequeg wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:23 pm
. All of it is tied to Gongyo which is a practice that has been developed and used for millennia toward various pursuits, but most critically in the Buddhist context, to the goal of awakening. With Gongyo applied to a vision, we set aside a period of time every day during which we still our thoughts and focus the mind. This takes advantage of the natural way our mind works to develop vision and work out the details of achieving the vision, which we then carry out when we get up from the place of practice.With morning gongyo, we prepare for the day. With evening gongyo we review the day.




. With our vision purified, our desires are purified, our thoughts, words and deeds are pure, meaning they are merged with the true aspect.

This manifests naturally as "benefits". Our inner life is invariably manifested in our mind, body, and the world around us. The need to strive for material benefits dissolves as our thoughts, words and deeds are directed to refuge in the True Aspect, and the natural inclination to seek above and edify below - the Buddhanature naturally finds expression.

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Minobu
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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by Minobu » Sat May 05, 2018 7:32 pm

Q i cannot express the gratitude i have for our working relationship in you helping me get it right...

your take is so lucid based on your years of intense study so you can perform service to the Lotus Buddhism and it's Sangha.

here is a clue that indeed you talk to my inner confusion...LOL!!!!


Queequeg wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:23 pm
and the natural inclination to seek above and edify below - the Buddhanature naturally finds expression.
in Holy alchemy taken from the Holy of Holy's The emerald Tablet...there is a line "As above so below"...

i just took this for granted as i read your post.common knowledge.....and then just now after my thinking of you and what you mean to me...wow where did that come from..why did he use those words....

you actually clarified in Buddhist terms what those words mean for me...something i put on the back burner.

a real big deal for ole minobu here..



when I just reread the Emerald Tablet...for the first time i get what it means....for it is a universal truth...i see it from a Lotus Buddhist perspective....which basically is the universes perspective for it is the universe all that is and isn't ...

Lotus buddhism is but a practice to get in touch with what we actually are....and the best time to practice is in the age of degeneration...when it works best for those practicing or wanting to practice Buddhism in this age.

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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by Queequeg » Sat May 05, 2018 8:44 pm

seek above and edify below
That's Zhiyi. I don't know if he's quoting someone else.

That's how he describes the subjective impulse of bodhicitta.

I read it as the lifeline of continuity, personally, as well as the interbeing experience. Our teachers pass to us what they learned, and we in turn pass what we learned. The spread of Buddhahood.

'even a single line' of Dharma, we do our best to gain and pass on.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

markatex
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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by markatex » Wed May 09, 2018 4:31 pm

This should probably be its own thread, but shodaigyo is a powerful practice, though it’s not something I do very often. The silent meditation part is more like shamatha rather than vipassana. The goal in chanting daimoku is “kanno dokyo,” where one approaches the Buddha with faith, and receives his enlightenment. Or something like that.

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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by Queequeg » Wed May 09, 2018 4:58 pm

markatex wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 4:31 pm
The goal in chanting daimoku is “kanno dokyo,” where one approaches the Buddha with faith, and receives his enlightenment.
Its the moment of transmission of the Lotus Sutra. This is Nichiren's most important teaching.

It's interesting to me that its the same practice as refuge in the Sandaihiho in the Kitayama lineage.

The Nichiren Shoshu/Soka Gakkai lineage does not really emphasize it the same way. Its there, but is lost in the rest of it.

If the discussion continues, we can split it off.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Minobu
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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by Minobu » Wed May 09, 2018 5:13 pm

markatex wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 4:31 pm
This should probably be its own thread, but shodaigyo is a powerful practice, though it’s not something I do very often. The silent meditation part is more like shamatha rather than vipassana. The goal in chanting daimoku is “kanno dokyo,” where one approaches the Buddha with faith, and receives his enlightenment. Or something like that.
correct me if i'm wrong.

but vippassana is a method , which i why i said sort of vippassans stuff.

so it is a method to achieve Shamatha which is necessary for any actual Buddhist practice to be effective.

such as entering samadhi ...

narhwal90
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Re: Assistance in what to chant

Post by narhwal90 » Wed May 09, 2018 8:18 pm

vipassana and samatha are distinct practices, yet clearly related. I'm quite interested in how shodaigyo correlates.

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Minobu
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Re: Shodaigyo

Post by Minobu » Wed May 09, 2018 8:31 pm

narhwal90 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:18 pm
vipassana and samatha are distinct practices, yet clearly related. I'm quite interested in how shodaigyo correlates.
well i thought it was like samatha is the word for the state of the quiet mind..it describes the state of mind

vippassana is the actual practice ..like watching your breath ..

so if you actually focus and clear your mind whilst doing gongyo and chanting ...it's like vippassana style meditation...same rules apply...as you see your mind wander off...you ignore the noise and come back to focus...if your mind is jumping around like an elephant mind you try to ignore and apply a little more force to bring in the watching...or observing...

the trick is to let your mind be very gentle...soft...you don;t excite yourself due to lack of concentration...accept the fact your a mess and like eventually you get to just chant...or just recite gongyo...even a few moments now and then during the session brings real benefit...or result in how you feel...improves your concentration and stuff like taking the time to smell the roses...

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Re: Shodaigyo

Post by Queequeg » Wed May 09, 2018 8:46 pm

I'm still reading the manual, and one of these days I plan to tune in on skype with Rev. Kumakura. I would definitely like to learn this.

There is a breath following samatha-type practice, but the main practice is chanting Daimoku. What is interesting is the liturgy that frames the Daimoku practice. As Mark pointed out, the main practice is receiving the Daimoku from the Original Buddha.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Minobu
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Re: Shodaigyo

Post by Minobu » Thu May 10, 2018 4:18 pm

first up this thread did need the split...good job...now down to the topic
Queequeg wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:46 pm
As Mark pointed out, the main practice is receiving the Daimoku from the Original Buddha.
markatex wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 4:31 pm
. The goal in chanting daimoku is “kanno dokyo,” where one approaches the Buddha with faith, and receives his enlightenment. Or something like that.
i never heard of Kanno Dokyo ..

now we are at the crux of what we do....

so brace yourself Q...are you sitting down....maybe a shot of single malt might be in order....

what does Nichiren Shu perceive the Original Buddha as?

For me it is MahaVairocana and one can more tune one's mind with all this could lead one to whilst chanting with the Ichinen Sanzen Gohonzon.

Or another thought of mine on this is that it is a bread crumb left for us by Master Nichiren Shonin .
Or even stronger still a bread crumb appearing due to the legacy and what that means of Lotus Buddhism.

this might sound off topic but it is meant to understand the mechanics or more aptly the impetus of Shodaigyo .

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Re: Shodaigyo

Post by Queequeg » Thu May 10, 2018 4:27 pm

Minobu wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 4:18 pm
what does Nichiren Shu perceive the Original Buddha as?
Shakyamuni of the Essential Section.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Minobu
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Re: Shodaigyo

Post by Minobu » Thu May 10, 2018 4:39 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 4:27 pm
Minobu wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 4:18 pm
what does Nichiren Shu perceive the Original Buddha as?
Shakyamuni of the Essential Section.
(pre edit before actually pressing submit button)plainly...not meant to be gruff..or disrespectful

Never heard of "It" .

What does that mean...So Like In the Lotus sutra , it might be hard to wrap one's head around , but Lord Sakyamuni Buddha gives us His timeline when He actually first Attained Buddhahood. And that even though it sounds really long ago ,was just a speck in time . It gives us a clue as to how long Samsara really is....which leaves us with a before His Attaining Buddhahood.

So when Original Buddha comes up and the use of Lord Sakyamuni is used, it confuses me...I need to actually read it from the source of The Buddha Sakyamuni and if at all possible authentic teachings of Nichiren Shonin..
otherwise you just gave us your theory...

the going concern is that the Original Buddha is Buddha MahaVairocana , a purely Dharmakaya Body Buddha.

again..(pre edit before actually pressing submit button)plainly...not meant to be gruff..or disrespectful

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Re: Shodaigyo

Post by Queequeg » Thu May 10, 2018 5:42 pm

Minobu wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 4:39 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 4:27 pm
Minobu wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 4:18 pm
what does Nichiren Shu perceive the Original Buddha as?
Shakyamuni of the Essential Section.
(pre edit before actually pressing submit button)plainly...not meant to be gruff..or disrespectful

Never heard of "It" .

What does that mean...So Like In the Lotus sutra , it might be hard to wrap one's head around , but Lord Sakyamuni Buddha gives us His timeline when He actually first Attained Buddhahood. And that even though it sounds really long ago ,was just a speck in time . It gives us a clue as to how long Samsara really is....which leaves us with a before His Attaining Buddhahood.
This has been discussed many times. You simply do not accept what is explained to you.

The Buddha of the Essential Teaching is Shakyamuni endowed with three bodies without beginning or end.
I need to actually read it from the source of The Buddha Sakyamuni and if at all possible authentic teachings of Nichiren Shonin..
otherwise you just gave us your theory...
nichirenlibrary.org

Most of Nichiren's writings are there in translation. You should read them. My answer is supported copiously.
the going concern is that the Original Buddha is Buddha MahaVairocana , a purely Dharmakaya Body Buddha.
Most definitely not.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Minobu
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Re: Shodaigyo

Post by Minobu » Thu May 10, 2018 7:04 pm

i was doing practice after i posted that last post.
i was going to recite gongyo and for the longest time i have not read it in english and was inspired to do so.
the Original buddha was on my mind so i was focused there....i guess...

so from
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GohonzonInfo/info
i got my online version of Nichiren shu gongyo that comes with a line by line translation...

here
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GohonzonInfo/files

so i was almost where you wanted me to be Q but then this...

so here is a few lines;
Shariputra! Since I became a Buddha, I have been
been expounding various teachings with various
stories of previous lives, with various parables and with
various similes. I have been leading all living beings
with innumerable expedients



Shakyamuni Buddha, left the palace of the Shakyas
sat at the place of enlightenment not far
from the City of Gaya, and attained Anuttara-samyak
sambodhi forty and odd years ago.
To tell the truth, good people, it is many hundreds
of thousands of billions of nayutas of kalpas
since I became the Buddha.


The number of kalpas which have elapsed since
I became the Buddha is one hundred thousand billion
nayuta asamkhyas larger than the number of dust particles
produced. All this time I have been living in this
Saha World and teaching the living beings of this world by
expounding the Dharma to them


Good people! During this time I gave various names to
myself, for instance, Burning Light Buddha. I also
said, ‘That Buddha entered into nirvana.’


Now here is the kicker that got me...it led to what q says...so i was al of a sudden ...happy in what Q says..

I did all these things only as expedients.

But then

In reality, I became the Buddha
in the remotest past as I previously stated.
I told them so as an expedient to teach them, to lead them
into the Way to Buddhahood

so now it's like WOW!!!! Q is right...wowza!!!! He is saying something like thats a parable as well



Therefore, I
expounded the Dharma with various stories of previous
lives, with various parables, similes and discourses,
In order to cause all living beings
to plant the roots of good.


but then this happens
I have never stopped
doing what I should do. As I said before, it is
very long since I became the Buddha.

The duration of my life is innumerable, asamkhya
kalpas. I am always here. I shall never pass away
Good people! The duration of my life
which I obtained by the practice of the Bodhisattva Way
has not yet expired. It is twice as long as the length
of time previously stated


So!...the thing is ..if Lord Sakyamuni buddha is the Original Primordial Buddha , why would The Original Primordial Buddha need to

The duration of my life
which I obtained by the practice of the Bodhisattva Way
Last edited by Minobu on Thu May 10, 2018 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Queequeg
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Re: Shodaigyo

Post by Queequeg » Thu May 10, 2018 7:14 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 5:42 pm
The Buddha of the Essential Teaching is Shakyamuni endowed with three bodies without beginning or end.
From the Rooster Diagram:

https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... gram10.png

From Kanjin no Honzon Sho
The “Life Span” chapter reads, “It has been immeasurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of nayutas of kalpas since I in fact attained Buddhahood.” The Shakyamuni Buddha within our lives is the eternal Buddha since time without beginning, who obtained the three bodies more than numberless major world system dust particle kalpas ago.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Queequeg
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Re: Shodaigyo

Post by Queequeg » Thu May 10, 2018 7:24 pm

Minobu wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:04 pm
So!...the thing is ..if Lord Sakyamuni buddha is the Original Primordial Buddha , why would The Original Primordial Buddha need to

The duration of my life
which I obtained by the practice of the Bodhisattva Way
In one sense, because cause and effect are instantaneous.

Buddhahood has a cause - the bodhisattva path. Can't have Buddhahood without the Cause of Buddhahood. That would be a result without a cause. The cause of Buddhahood is instaneous with Buddhahood.

There is more to this that is explained through ichinen sanzen.

Its not comprehensible with ordinary logic.

The best explanation I can give is that the cause of Buddhahood is the beginning of the rainbow. No matter where you go, the beginning of the rainbow is beyond; the attainment of Buddhahood by the OB is always in the past, no matter the vantage.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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