What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

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bcol01
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What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by bcol01 »

:thanks:
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Queequeg
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by Queequeg »

"Cofucianism" for Nichiren was more expansive than just the teachings of Confucius. It also included Mencius as well as Daoism. He considered it a worthy teaching that prepared the Chinese for transmission of Buddhism. He considered it a correct teaching within its context for ordering society, and since his own society was founded on a Confucian framework, he accepted it as an expedient convention. However, since it does not explain the workings of karma beyond this life, it is a limited and relatively coarse teaching.

In the event that the teachings Dharma and Confucianism diverge, Dharma is the correct path.

See the opening passages of Opening the Eyes where Nichiren explains the place of Confucianism in comparison to Buddhism.

See also the writings, Four Debts of Gratitude (One owes a debt to all sentient beings, parents, sovereign and the Triple Jewel), and On Repaying Debts of Gratitude (directly addressing Confucian norms of filial piety and the debts one owes to parent, sovereign, and nation). Nichiren explains that by following the Buddhist path, one fulfills all debts one owes because as a Buddha, one can truly benefit everyone.

With regard to Shinto, Shinto is actually a fairly modern invention. That's not to say that there has not been worship of kami since before recorded history in Japan, it just wasn't organized and codified as Shinto.

In Nichiren's view, kami are emanations of Buddhas and bodhisattvas, or alternatively, Dharma Protectors. In any event, they are guardians of Dharma and those who practice dharma.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
bcol01
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by bcol01 »

Thank you for that insight! Would there be anything wrong with practicing Confucian ideals or incorporating Confucian advice into daily life, as a Nichiren Buddhist?

Queequeg wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 4:25 pm "Cofucianism" for Nichiren was more expansive than just the teachings of Confucius. It also included Mencius as well as Daoism. He considered it a worthy teaching that prepared the Chinese for transmission of Buddhism. He considered it a correct teaching within its context for ordering society, and since his own society was founded on a Confucian framework, he accepted it as an expedient convention. However, since it does not explain the workings of karma beyond this life, it is a limited and relatively coarse teaching.

In the event that the teachings Dharma and Confucianism diverge, Dharma is the correct path.

See the opening passages of Opening the Eyes where Nichiren explains the place of Confucianism in comparison to Buddhism.

See also the writings, Four Debts of Gratitude (One owes a debt to all sentient beings, parents, sovereign and the Triple Jewel), and On Repaying Debts of Gratitude (directly addressing Confucian norms of filial piety and the debts one owes to parent, sovereign, and nation). Nichiren explains that by following the Buddhist path, one fulfills all debts one owes because as a Buddha, one can truly benefit everyone.

With regard to Shinto, Shinto is actually a fairly modern invention. That's not to say that there has not been worship of kami since before recorded history in Japan, it just wasn't organized and codified as Shinto.

In Nichiren's view, kami are emanations of Buddhas and bodhisattvas, or alternatively, Dharma Protectors. In any event, they are guardians of Dharma and those who practice dharma.
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

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bcol01 wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 5:44 pm Thank you for that insight! Would there be anything wrong with practicing Confucian ideals or incorporating Confucian advice into daily life, as a Nichiren Buddhist?
Not at all. Jen and Li are wonderful ideals, IMHO. There is a lot of great advice in the Analects.

There's nothing wrong with incorporating any practices or ideals unless they conflict with the practice of NMRK.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by bcol01 »

:sage:
Last edited by bcol01 on Thu May 17, 2018 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
bcol01
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by bcol01 »

Thank you! Gassho
Queequeg wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 5:54 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 5:44 pm Thank you for that insight! Would there be anything wrong with practicing Confucian ideals or incorporating Confucian advice into daily life, as a Nichiren Buddhist?
Not at all. Jen and Li are wonderful ideals, IMHO. There is a lot of great advice in the Analects.

There's nothing wrong with incorporating any practices or ideals unless they conflict with the practice of NMRK.
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by Bois de Santal »

Two observations...

Confucianism certainly prompts much thought. One of the challenges is to separate the underlying principles rather than blindly following rules that applied to a different period and culture. In many ways our society today can seem to have lost its bearings and confucianism can provide some sign posts but it is still up to us to decide how and when to follow them.

And of course, in general, Nichiren Buddhism is not exclusive. One of the main points that is made over and over again in the goshos is the superiority of the lotus sutra. The mistake he is criticising is to put other sutras above the lotus. There is never ever any exhortation to discard, close and ignore other sutras and teachings - just to keep them in their correct context vis-a-vis the Lotus Sutra.
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe »

bcol01 wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 1:12 am:thanks:
It might be of your interest also doing some research on Hokke Shinto, or the syncretism of Lotus Sects and Shinto. This kind of practice is still done in some Nichiren sects and Lineages, specifically in Nichiren Shu (more so in Nakayama Lineage). I also think you must be aware that two Kami, Amaterasu Omikami and Hachiman Sama(Yahata no Okami) are actually represented in the Gohonzon.
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by Queequeg »

Bois de Santal wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 6:55 pm And of course, in general, Nichiren Buddhism is not exclusive. One of the main points that is made over and over again in the goshos is the superiority of the lotus sutra. The mistake he is criticising is to put other sutras above the lotus. There is never ever any exhortation to discard, close and ignore other sutras and teachings - just to keep them in their correct context vis-a-vis the Lotus Sutra.
This point probably needs to be hashed out a little.

There is a letter to a believer in which Nichiren explains why he refused to give a woman and audience or inscribe a Gohonzon for her.

What happened was that this woman went on a pilgrimage to visit a shrine and on the way back went to Mt. Minobu to see Nichiren. He refused to see her because the main purpose of her trip was to visit a shrine, and visiting Nichiren, which amounted to an offering to Myohorengekyo, was more or less an afterthought. This demonstrated a disposition in which the woman privileged the kami over the Lotus Sutra.

In another letter, Nichiren praises Shijo Kingo for carrying on certain esoteric rites that he learned from his father, even saying that he also practiced these rites. However, Nichiren makes clear that these rites are subordinate to devotion to the Lotus Sutra and that the kami honored by the rites have power only because they vowed to uphold and protect the Lotus Sutra and its practitioners.

The point is, the Lotus Sutra is explained as the profoundest teaching of the Buddha, and everything else is coarse in comparison, ie. an unrefined level of truth.

There are teachings that are incompatible with the Lotus Sutra - these are teachings asserting that they are deeper truths than the Lotus.

Nothing is more true than the True Aspect, and the Lotus is considered the most refined expression of it.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by Minobu »

Queequeg wrote: Fri May 18, 2018 4:53 pm
Bois de Santal wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 6:55 pm And of course, in general, Nichiren Buddhism is not exclusive. One of the main points that is made over and over again in the goshos is the superiority of the lotus sutra. The mistake he is criticising is to put other sutras above the lotus. There is never ever any exhortation to discard, close and ignore other sutras and teachings - just to keep them in their correct context vis-a-vis the Lotus Sutra.
This point probably needs to be hashed out a little.

There is a letter to a believer in which Nichiren explains why he refused to give a woman and audience or inscribe a Gohonzon for her.

What happened was that this woman went on a pilgrimage to visit a shrine and on the way back went to Mt. Minobu to see Nichiren. He refused to see her because the main purpose of her trip was to visit a shrine, and visiting Nichiren, which amounted to an offering to Myohorengekyo, was more or less an afterthought. This demonstrated a disposition in which the woman privileged the kami over the Lotus Sutra.

In another letter, Nichiren praises Shijo Kingo for carrying on certain esoteric rites that he learned from his father, even saying that he also practiced these rites. However, Nichiren makes clear that these rites are subordinate to devotion to the Lotus Sutra and that the kami honored by the rites have power only because they vowed to uphold and protect the Lotus Sutra and its practitioners.

The point is, the Lotus Sutra is explained as the profoundest teaching of the Buddha, and everything else is coarse in comparison, ie. an unrefined level of truth.

There are teachings that are incompatible with the Lotus Sutra - these are teachings asserting that they are deeper truths than the Lotus.

Nothing is more true than the True Aspect, and the Lotus is considered the most refined expression of it.
so then i used to do a recital of the sutra and then offer a prayer to the Shoten Zenjin..or Buddhist Gods.

I used to ignore the Vedic Gods.and wonder who exactly are the Buddhist Gods..

and yet this past year or so i now see The God Brahma and the God Indra inscribed on the Shutei Gohonzon..

many questions indeed.

Also i recall on many an occasion praising the Gods and telling us we should be... for lack of the actual words...nice to them or honour them with utmost respect...cherish them for helping us...
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by ronnymarsh »

bcol01 wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 1:12 am:thanks:
Although it has already been mentioned, just to shed more light on the matter from a non-sectarian point of view.
Shintoism as a distinct religion is only something that appeared during the Meiji Era, and was the fruit of a reactionary anti-Buddhist political stance. Before the Meiji Era the term 神道 (path of the kami) was synonymous with Buddhism.
The veneration of the kami is something very old in Japanese history, it existed even before the Chinese influence in the centralized court of Japan. And Buddhism, wherever it has spread, has always adopted a position of tolerance towards native cults. So when Buddhism came into contact with the Hellenists the Greek deities and semi-deities were simply adopted, Hercules, for example, was considered a Dharmapala.
In Tibet, Southeast Asia, China and also in Japan, the same logic was followed. Thus, the Kami were incorporated into Japanese Buddhism assuming positions at times of Dharmapalas, Bodhisattvas, etc. And this is present in the system of all Buddhist schools.
Hachiman, for example, is present in the Mandala Gohonzon of Nichiren, however the cult dedicated to him as an object of devotion was not encouraged in the schools of the Kamakura period, which was characterized by exclusivism.

--------------------------

As for Confucianism, first of all we must know that it does not exist.
Confucinism is a term that the Catholic Church developed, in the transition from the Middle Ages to the Modern Age, in order to name a school of Chinese thought, the Rujia 儒家, and the structure dedicated to the study of this school, the Lixue 理學.

Rujia means "School of Scholars" or "School of Erudite", and its main exponents are the masters Confucius and Mencio, and the fundamental works are the Five Classics.

In the 8th century CE, Chinese scholars began a process of reaction to the entry of Buddhism into China, and developed the Lixue 理學 (School of Principles). The position of some scholars was highly anti-Buddhist, while others were more open and tried to demonstrate that in essence Buddha and Confucius (as well as Lao Tzu) agreed. This school uses the Five Classics as a source along with the Four Books: Great Study, Middle Way, Analects and Book of Mention.

Lixue 理學 is what today is called "neo-Confucianism".

In summary, the text of the Great Study is a very small work that deviates a little from the cartoonish Confucian standards that are centered on collectivism. It says that the great rulers of Chinese history were only great because they started a process of self-cultivation. So, in order to have a good society, people must first engage in self-cultivation. The Middle Way text is also a short text, smaller than the Analects and Mencio, but longer than the Great Study. It teaches that the natural position of everything is the middle way, balance, and that the wise person is the one who avoids extremes and seeks that balance.

These texts do not disagree with Buddhism, on the contrary, they are highly compatible. However, they don't talk about Karma and rebirth, and they also don't talk about the nature of the mind, which is what sets Buddhism apart from all other religions.

However, the Buddhist perspective at the time made a distinction between Li (Ri) and Ji, that is, principle and function (activity). The Confucian school was called Lixue, that is, it turned its attention to reality in terms of Principles, and Nichiren's teaching is that of Honmon JI no Ichinen Sanzen, that is, Ichinen Sanzen of the Original Portla in terms of JI (function) .

Thus, the common tendency among Nichirenists was to understand Nichiren's perspective and Neo-Confucianism as complementary perspectives.
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Re: What did Nichiren think of Confucianism and Shintoism?

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 5:54 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 5:44 pm Thank you for that insight! Would there be anything wrong with practicing Confucian ideals or incorporating Confucian advice into daily life, as a Nichiren Buddhist?
Not at all. Jen and Li are wonderful ideals, IMHO. There is a lot of great advice in the Analects.

There's nothing wrong with incorporating any practices or ideals unless they conflict with the practice of NMRK.
Just a point here——it was the Neoconfucian thought of the Cheng Zhi and Wang Yang Ming schools that formed the basis of secular society in Japan, especially the latter's thought. The Tokugawa Shogunate adopted the bureaucratic model developed by Zhu Xi and instituted it as the system of examination for the civil service.
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