Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

bcol01
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Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by bcol01 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:28 pm

?

Tenma
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Tenma » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:34 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:28 pm
?
This is Buddhism. We are agnostics.

markatex
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by markatex » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:24 pm

What do you mean by “God”?

bcol01
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by bcol01 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:37 pm

the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
markatex wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:24 pm
What do you mean by “God”?

Miroku
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Miroku » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:51 pm

If I am correct no buddhist believes in that.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

markatex
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by markatex » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:56 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:37 pm
the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
No, there's nothing like that in Buddhism, generally. The Buddha took a dim view of that concept.

The closest thing (and I hesitate to make this comparison, because they're not the same thing at all) is the Original Buddha of Honmon, the Eternal Buddha, as it's often called. But the Eternal Buddha isn't a supreme being, or creator of the universe. Buddhism tends to be polytheistic in practice, at least historically. In Nichiren Buddhism, specifically, there are deities who vow to protect practitioners of the Lotus Sutra, and we're grateful to them. But there is nothing like God in the monotheistic religions.

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Queequeg
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Queequeg » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:27 pm

As much as we believe in a turtle fur coat!
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Bois de Santal
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Bois de Santal » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:42 pm

It is not easy to get all the various buddhist schools to agree with one another, but this is one such subject.

See item three here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_poi ... 1y%C4%81na

markatex
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by markatex » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:54 pm

Tenma wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:34 pm
This is Buddhism. We are agnostics.
The Buddha wasn't.

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Bois de Santal
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Bois de Santal » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:57 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:37 pm
the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
It is interesting that you have taken what I would call a very simplistic and fundamentalist definition of god. To me it conjures up the stern wrathful god of the old testament. I have met some Christian thinkers whose view of god approaches that of the three truths of buddhism but as always their belief trips over the duality implied by the separation of creator and created. Even though they do believe that everything is all a manifestation of god it is impossible for anyone to say 'I am god' or 'I have godhood'. Whereas in the lotus school (and other mahayana schools) it is perfectly OK to say that each of us has the capacity to be buddha inherent in their lives. In fact, it is of fundamental doctrinal importance.

If anyone presses you on the subject of 'do buddhists believe in god' I would suggest side-stepping the argument if possible, unless you are sure you are playing on home turf (such as in a buddhist group). Saying god doesn't existent can be a bit dodgy in some places and might even be fatal. Rather than provoking people unnecessarily I prefer to take a different angle. It doesn't matter whether people believe in god and neither does it matter whether buddhists believe in god. The buddha appeared so as to lead each person from suffering and does not judge their beliefs. It is perfectly possible to practice buddhism and believe in all sorts of incompatible things simultaneously. We all do, to start with, because we don't know any better.

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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Tenma » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 pm

markatex wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:54 pm
Tenma wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:34 pm
This is Buddhism. We are agnostics.
The Buddha wasn't.
How? I mean when he was a great teacher he was agnostic, not as a prince or an aesthetic(perhaps Jain or your typical Hindu).
Either way, we shouldn't take refuge in worldly deities.

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Grigoris
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:49 pm

Tenma wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 pm
How? I mean when he was a great teacher he was agnostic, not as a prince or an aesthetic(perhaps Jain or your typical Hindu).
Either way, we shouldn't take refuge in worldly deities.
The Buddha was not agnostic. According to the Buddha everything arises based on cause and conditions, not because some supreme being created them. He was pretty bloody sure of that.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Norwegian » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:54 pm

Tenma wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 pm
markatex wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:54 pm
Tenma wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:34 pm
This is Buddhism. We are agnostics.
The Buddha wasn't.
How? I mean when he was a great teacher he was agnostic, not as a prince or an aesthetic(perhaps Jain or your typical Hindu).
Either way, we shouldn't take refuge in worldly deities.
agnostic:
"a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."
"Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable."

This does not describe the Buddha at all, whatsoever. The Buddha is omniscient. That's very different.

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Aryjna
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Aryjna » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:50 am

bcol01 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:37 pm
the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
markatex wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:24 pm
What do you mean by “God”?
The existence of such a god is shown to be absurd in various Mahayana texts.

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Queequeg
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Queequeg » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:58 pm

Bois de Santal wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:57 pm
If anyone presses you on the subject of 'do buddhists believe in god' I would suggest side-stepping the argument if possible, unless you are sure you are playing on home turf (such as in a buddhist group). Saying god doesn't existent can be a bit dodgy in some places and might even be fatal. Rather than provoking people unnecessarily I prefer to take a different angle. It doesn't matter whether people believe in god and neither does it matter whether buddhists believe in god. The buddha appeared so as to lead each person from suffering and does not judge their beliefs. It is perfectly possible to practice buddhism and believe in all sorts of incompatible things simultaneously. We all do, to start with, because we don't know any better.
:good:
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

dude
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by dude » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:03 am

I think I remember a passage from the Gosho noting "some people believe in no gods, some think there are many gods...." without , if I recall correctly, making a judgment on which is best.

KiwiNFLFan
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by KiwiNFLFan » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:46 am

There was an article in the New Zealand SGI magazine with this exact title. Unfortunately there is no online edition so I can't post a link. It basically said that Nam Myoho Renge Kyo could be considered as God (according to the definition of some Christians anyway).

The Buddha talked about beings called devas and brahmas, but these beings are also subject to karma and the cycle of rebirth (though they have very long lifespans). In the Thai Buddhist tradition, there is a prayer dedicating one's merit to the devas.

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Queequeg
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Queequeg » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:27 am

KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:46 am
There was an article in the New Zealand SGI magazine with this exact title. Unfortunately there is no online edition so I can't post a link. It basically said that Nam Myoho Renge Kyo could be considered as God (according to the definition of some Christians anyway).
Image
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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seeker242
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by seeker242 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:19 pm

Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?
No, not in the typical way. But there is belief in a being who think of themselves as God, but that's just because he is deluded. The Lotus sutra describes a "Great Brahma Heavenly King", who claims he is "the All-Seeing, the All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, Ruler, Appointer and Orderer". But...
His self-testimony according to the Buddha is actually nothing more than self-delusion and egotism. As a being among beings who is also caught up in the round of birth and death, Brahma also must be considered in need of the Buddha's instruction despite his pretensions.
http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/nic ... devas.html
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:36 pm

God is just "the best biz around".

If NMRK is the "best biz around" than its God.

NMRK is not an ancient desert spirit who entered into a covenant with Abraham and later was enfleshed as Jesus, though, no matter how one tries to spin it.
नस्वातो नापिपरतो नद्वाभ्यां नाप्यहेतुतः उत्पन्ना जातु विद्यन्ते भावाः क्वचन केचन
There absolutely are no things, nowhere and none, that arise anew, neither out of themselves, nor out of non-self, nor out of both, nor at random.
सर्वं तथ्यं न वा तथ्यं तथ्यं चातथ्यम् एव च नैवातथ्यं नैव तथ्यम् एतद् बुद्धानुशासनम्
All is so, or all is not so, both so and not so, neither so nor not so. This is the Buddha's teaching.

一切實非實亦實亦非實
非實非非實是名諸佛法

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