Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

bcol01
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Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by bcol01 »

?
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Tenma »

bcol01 wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:28 pm?
This is Buddhism. We are agnostics.
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by markatex »

What do you mean by “God”?
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by bcol01 »

the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
markatex wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:24 pm What do you mean by “God”?
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

If I am correct no buddhist believes in that.
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For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by markatex »

bcol01 wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:37 pm the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
No, there's nothing like that in Buddhism, generally. The Buddha took a dim view of that concept.

The closest thing (and I hesitate to make this comparison, because they're not the same thing at all) is the Original Buddha of Honmon, the Eternal Buddha, as it's often called. But the Eternal Buddha isn't a supreme being, or creator of the universe. Buddhism tends to be polytheistic in practice, at least historically. In Nichiren Buddhism, specifically, there are deities who vow to protect practitioners of the Lotus Sutra, and we're grateful to them. But there is nothing like God in the monotheistic religions.
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Queequeg »

As much as we believe in a turtle fur coat!
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Bois de Santal
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Bois de Santal »

It is not easy to get all the various buddhist schools to agree with one another, but this is one such subject.

See item three here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_poi ... 1y%C4%81na
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by markatex »

Tenma wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:34 pm This is Buddhism. We are agnostics.
The Buddha wasn't.
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Bois de Santal »

bcol01 wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:37 pm the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
It is interesting that you have taken what I would call a very simplistic and fundamentalist definition of god. To me it conjures up the stern wrathful god of the old testament. I have met some Christian thinkers whose view of god approaches that of the three truths of buddhism but as always their belief trips over the duality implied by the separation of creator and created. Even though they do believe that everything is all a manifestation of god it is impossible for anyone to say 'I am god' or 'I have godhood'. Whereas in the lotus school (and other mahayana schools) it is perfectly OK to say that each of us has the capacity to be buddha inherent in their lives. In fact, it is of fundamental doctrinal importance.

If anyone presses you on the subject of 'do buddhists believe in god' I would suggest side-stepping the argument if possible, unless you are sure you are playing on home turf (such as in a buddhist group). Saying god doesn't existent can be a bit dodgy in some places and might even be fatal. Rather than provoking people unnecessarily I prefer to take a different angle. It doesn't matter whether people believe in god and neither does it matter whether buddhists believe in god. The buddha appeared so as to lead each person from suffering and does not judge their beliefs. It is perfectly possible to practice buddhism and believe in all sorts of incompatible things simultaneously. We all do, to start with, because we don't know any better.
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Tenma »

markatex wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:54 pm
Tenma wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:34 pm This is Buddhism. We are agnostics.
The Buddha wasn't.
How? I mean when he was a great teacher he was agnostic, not as a prince or an aesthetic(perhaps Jain or your typical Hindu).
Either way, we shouldn't take refuge in worldly deities.
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Grigoris »

Tenma wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 pmHow? I mean when he was a great teacher he was agnostic, not as a prince or an aesthetic(perhaps Jain or your typical Hindu).
Either way, we shouldn't take refuge in worldly deities.
The Buddha was not agnostic. According to the Buddha everything arises based on cause and conditions, not because some supreme being created them. He was pretty bloody sure of that.
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Norwegian »

Tenma wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 pm
markatex wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:54 pm
Tenma wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:34 pm This is Buddhism. We are agnostics.
The Buddha wasn't.
How? I mean when he was a great teacher he was agnostic, not as a prince or an aesthetic(perhaps Jain or your typical Hindu).
Either way, we shouldn't take refuge in worldly deities.
agnostic:
"a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."
"Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable."

This does not describe the Buddha at all, whatsoever. The Buddha is omniscient. That's very different.
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Aryjna
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Aryjna »

bcol01 wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:37 pm the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
markatex wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:24 pm What do you mean by “God”?
The existence of such a god is shown to be absurd in various Mahayana texts.
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Queequeg
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Queequeg »

Bois de Santal wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:57 pm If anyone presses you on the subject of 'do buddhists believe in god' I would suggest side-stepping the argument if possible, unless you are sure you are playing on home turf (such as in a buddhist group). Saying god doesn't existent can be a bit dodgy in some places and might even be fatal. Rather than provoking people unnecessarily I prefer to take a different angle. It doesn't matter whether people believe in god and neither does it matter whether buddhists believe in god. The buddha appeared so as to lead each person from suffering and does not judge their beliefs. It is perfectly possible to practice buddhism and believe in all sorts of incompatible things simultaneously. We all do, to start with, because we don't know any better.
:good:
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by dude »

I think I remember a passage from the Gosho noting "some people believe in no gods, some think there are many gods...." without , if I recall correctly, making a judgment on which is best.
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by KiwiNFLFan »

There was an article in the New Zealand SGI magazine with this exact title. Unfortunately there is no online edition so I can't post a link. It basically said that Nam Myoho Renge Kyo could be considered as God (according to the definition of some Christians anyway).

The Buddha talked about beings called devas and brahmas, but these beings are also subject to karma and the cycle of rebirth (though they have very long lifespans). In the Thai Buddhist tradition, there is a prayer dedicating one's merit to the devas.
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Queequeg »

KiwiNFLFan wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:46 am There was an article in the New Zealand SGI magazine with this exact title. Unfortunately there is no online edition so I can't post a link. It basically said that Nam Myoho Renge Kyo could be considered as God (according to the definition of some Christians anyway).
Image
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by seeker242 »

Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?
No, not in the typical way. But there is belief in a being who think of themselves as God, but that's just because he is deluded. The Lotus sutra describes a "Great Brahma Heavenly King", who claims he is "the All-Seeing, the All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, Ruler, Appointer and Orderer". But...
His self-testimony according to the Buddha is actually nothing more than self-delusion and egotism. As a being among beings who is also caught up in the round of birth and death, Brahma also must be considered in need of the Buddha's instruction despite his pretensions.
http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/nic ... devas.html
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Re: Do Nichiren Buddhists believe in God?

Post by Caoimhghín »

God is just "the best biz around".

If NMRK is the "best biz around" than its God.

NMRK is not an ancient desert spirit who entered into a covenant with Abraham and later was enfleshed as Jesus, though, no matter how one tries to spin it.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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