Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

dharmapdx
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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by dharmapdx » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:24 am

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:13 pm
dharmapdx wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:54 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:38 pm


To be clear, your assumption is wrong as far as Nichiren teachings go.

FWIW
Queequeg wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:17 pm

This is true. However, a distinction is made between the practice of calling on Avalokitesvara and the main teaching/practice of the sutra. In the East Asian Lotus traditions, the Lotus has two main messages - First, the Buddha Nature of all beings including arhats, pratyekabuddhas, and icchantikas, and Second, the Buddha's life span. Calling on Avalokitesvara is an ancillary practice based on Avalokitesvara's vow to protect those who uphold the Lotus. So, its not considered the same, especially in Nichiren schools.
Incorrect? Or a distinction?
Depends on the perspective.

For Nichiren, calling on Avalokitesvara is not an appropriate practice for the Degenerate Age.

Hairs can be split all day, but what you are proposing, chanting Om Mani Padme Hum to the Gohonzon would be proscribed by Nichiren in the strictest terms. As I wrote above, if you understood what these things mean, this question would not occur to you.
I didn’t “propose” it. I simply asked, theoretically, if it could be done. To my mind, there’s a difference.

I understand what NMRK means. And it’s a bit insulting to be told that I don’t. I also understand that Nichiren said that all Buddhist practices are contained in NMRK. From that perspective, wouldn’t “Om Mani Padme Hum” be included as well? It’s weird to be told that a question wouldn’t occur to me…. Um. What? 🤷‍♂️

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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by The Cicada » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:11 am

The practice of the Lotus Sutra is like the "Hotel California," but with one crucial difference: You can attain enlightenment, but you can never really leave...

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Queequeg
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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by Queequeg » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:00 pm

dharmapdx wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:24 am
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:13 pm
dharmapdx wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:54 pm




Incorrect? Or a distinction?
Depends on the perspective.

For Nichiren, calling on Avalokitesvara is not an appropriate practice for the Degenerate Age.

Hairs can be split all day, but what you are proposing, chanting Om Mani Padme Hum to the Gohonzon would be proscribed by Nichiren in the strictest terms. As I wrote above, if you understood what these things mean, this question would not occur to you.
I didn’t “propose” it. I simply asked, theoretically, if it could be done. To my mind, there’s a difference.

I understand what NMRK means. And it’s a bit insulting to be told that I don’t. I also understand that Nichiren said that all Buddhist practices are contained in NMRK. From that perspective, wouldn’t “Om Mani Padme Hum” be included as well? It’s weird to be told that a question wouldn’t occur to me…. Um. What? 🤷‍♂️
If you understood what the Gohonzon is, it would not occur to you to chant Om Mani Padme Hum. That was my statement in response to your original question.

To contain other teachings does not mean that they are appropriate to practice before the Gohonzon. Nichiren actually proscribed even circumambulating and prostrations. To contain other teachings is a reference to the nature of provisional teachings in relation to the essential teaching; provisional teachings are taught in response to particular conditions and arise from the essential out of the Buddha's infinite compassion. Such teachings, in themselves, however, do not lead to enlightenment. Before the Gohonzon, only the essential teaching should be practiced.

The Gohonzon is the mandala of the transmission of the essential teaching. Does it make sense to praise the Pulitzer committee when receiving an award from the Nobel committee?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Bois de Santal
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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by Bois de Santal » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:02 pm

Nichiren actually proscribed even circumambulating and prostrations.
Interesting. Do you have a link for that?

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Queequeg
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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by Queequeg » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:04 pm

Bois de Santal wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:02 pm
Nichiren actually proscribed even circumambulating and prostrations.
Interesting. Do you have a link for that?
As for the rules to be followed in worship, one should always either sit or stand when in the presence of the object of devotion. Once one leaves the place of worship, however, one is free to walk, stand still, sit, or lie down as one wishes.
On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Spiritual_living
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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by Spiritual_living » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:02 pm

Isn’t Avalokiteśvara also Kannon, and isn’t “om mani padme hum” a prayer to Kannon/Avalokiteśvara?


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Queequeg
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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by Queequeg » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:45 pm

Spiritual_living wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:02 pm
Isn’t Avalokiteśvara also Kannon, and isn’t “om mani padme hum” a prayer to Kannon/Avalokiteśvara?
You should read the thread.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

markatex
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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by markatex » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:37 pm

To reiterate, calling on Kannon Bodhisattva is a provisional practice that is considered inappropriate for the age of mappo. If you're chanting the Daimoku, there is no need to specifically call on Kannon. In the Lotus Sutra, Mujinni Bodhisattva makes an offering of a jeweled necklace to Kannon. Kannon refuses the offering, but Shakyamuni implores him to accept it. So Kannon accepts, but breaks the necklace in half and gives one half to Shakyamuni Buddha and one half to Taho Buddha. Kannon is ultimately subordinate to, and receives his power to save living beings from, the Eternal Buddha.

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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:48 pm

The post that explicitly mentioned Kannon got moved into this thread and used her longer name, Kanzeon, corresponding to Guān Yīn/Guān Shì Yīn.

That might have caused some of the confusion.
नस्वातो नापिपरतो नद्वाभ्यां नाप्यहेतुतः उत्पन्ना जातु विद्यन्ते भावाः क्वचन केचन
There absolutely are no things, nowhere and none, that arise anew, neither out of themselves, nor out of non-self, nor out of both, nor at random.
सर्वं तथ्यं न वा तथ्यं तथ्यं चातथ्यम् एव च नैवातथ्यं नैव तथ्यम् एतद् बुद्धानुशासनम्
All is so, or all is not so, both so and not so, neither so nor not so. This is the Buddha's teaching.

一切實非實亦實亦非實
非實非非實是名諸佛法

Spiritual_living
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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by Spiritual_living » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:25 am

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:45 pm
Spiritual_living wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:02 pm
Isn’t Avalokiteśvara also Kannon, and isn’t “om mani padme hum” a prayer to Kannon/Avalokiteśvara?
You should read the thread.
I have.

equation76
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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by equation76 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:05 pm

dharmapdx wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:08 am
I'm really not trying to be cute here. LOL. Given that this is a Tibetan chant, I would guess it doesn't have the tangled history with Nichiren Buddhism that, say, the Nembutsu does.

Sometimes I just think I'd like to chant that. I've always had an affinity for Tibetan Buddhism.
No worries, actually it is ok. Having said that it depend who you are speaking to, most Nichiren Buddhist will focus on singularity of NMHRGK practice. Therefore, they will not read up or add in other mantra and sutra into their regular practice.

In fact, I incorporate Uṣṇīṣa Vijaya Dhāraṇī, Compassionate Dharani and Heart Sutra into my practice after chanting the regular Nichiren Shu gongyo. When one is able to understand the beauty of each dharani and sutra, then one realized why Shakayamuni Buddha teach 84,000 teaching.

Of course for beginner, it is better to focus on a single practise after sometime one can consider incorporate what one desire into the regular practice. The essence of practise is to calm the mind and generate a positive Bodhicitta.

In the history page, Gandhi incorporate Odaimoku in his regular Hindu puja, in front of the Hindu deities. Does that make him a Nichiren Buddhist? What is a Gohonzon? Nichiren always remind us to seek the Gohonzon within you. The external Gohonzon is just a piece of paper or wood subject to decay. It is but a tool for us to focus and journey back into our heart.

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Re: Can Nichiren Buddhists chant "Om mani padme hum" to the Gohonzon?

Post by narhwal90 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:45 pm

I don't think reciting the Lotus Sutra or daimoku makes one a Nichiren buddhist, there are Zen sangha who use both elements in various ways- Nichiren didn't invent the practices. What makes a Nichiren Buddhist? Perhaps to read & recite the Lotus Sutra, chant the daimoku and focus upon the gosho. The gohonzon scroll is no more essential than the juzu beads, but both sure help with focus over the long term.

As far as reciting the "Om.." chant, I see no problem with sitting down in front of one's own closed butsudan to do it. But as per the references Q looked up, when the butsudan is open and the gohonzon is the focus, then we have some instruction from Nichiren. Similarly I think it would be impolite to start reciting "Om mani padme hum" in a Nichiren temple/SGI facility, likewise bringing Nichiren practices into a zendo.

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