Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

hopefullotus
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Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by hopefullotus » Sat May 11, 2019 1:31 pm

I was reading the Three Kinds of Treasure gosho yesterday and was moved by the powerful declarations Nichiren has towards Shijo Kingo such as,

"If you should fall into hell for some grave offense, no matter how Shakyamuni Buddha might urge me to become a Buddha, I would refuse; I would rather go to hell with you. For if you and I should fall into hell together, we would find Shakyamuni Buddha and the Lotus Sutra there. It would be as if the moon were illuminating the darkness, as if cold water were pouring into hot, as if fire were melting ice, or as if the sun were dispelling the darkness."

I am not suggesting that they were sexually or romantically involved but they seem to have a really intense/passionate relationship regardless. Nichiren speaks to few other of his disciples in the same way; though there are some. He always speaks genuinely but with Kingo it seems... extra?

It is a beautiful relationship to me in any case and I was wondering if others had thoughts on their relationship or other quotes or resources that may highlight the nature of it.

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Queequeg
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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Queequeg » Sat May 11, 2019 2:39 pm

Shijo Kingo was a staunch supporter who on numerous occasions showed he would give his life to protect the Dharma and Nichiren. The devotion to each other was mutual. It was the affection people have for each other who have been through life and death tribulations with each other.

You have to understand, they lived the intensity you see in those letters. Shijo Kingo was targeted for assassination by fellow samurai and his lord stripped him of his fiefs for practicing NMRK and supporting Nichiren. Shijo Kingo could have renounced his faith and returned to the good graces of his lord but didn't. When Nichiren was sentences to die, he walked to the execution ground and resolved to die with Nichiren, in tbe samurai suicide pact way.

Nichiren himself was as tough as any warrior. One of his disciples was shocked when he saw Nichiren's body which was covered in scars from decades of abuse. It was not poetic flourish when he said he was beaten with sticks and staves for the Lotus Sutra. People tried to kill Nichiren throughout his life after declaring NMRK.

Those exchanges with Shijo Kingo were declarations of loyalty that they would die for each other. The face of death is intense.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by narhwal90 » Sat May 11, 2019 6:51 pm

As per the Mandala Workshop, a few of the of the late surviving gohonzons painted by Nichiren bear smudges due to weakness in his broken arm. Who dares wins.

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Ginkyo » Sun May 12, 2019 12:02 am

That's incredible. I didn't know how much Nichiren had physically suffered. I honestly thought that some of the stuff about being beaten with staves etc wasn't completely literal

hopefullotus
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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by hopefullotus » Sun May 12, 2019 12:31 am

Thanks, everyone, for the comments. I knew Shijo Kingo was there when Nichiren was sentenced to execution and Nichiren says he would never forget it.

I guess part of me reads this and forgets exactly how real it was, a benefit (or misfortune maybe?) I have for not living at this time in Japan! It was a brutal time and easy to forget the actual trials and tribulations.

Then again, I think their relationship is still relatable. I'd like to think I can be that sort of person who stands up for my convictions no matter the cost and that I'd have someone like Kingo there by my side and on the flipside that I could be Kingo for someone too.

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Yavana » Sun May 12, 2019 12:52 am

hopefullotus wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:31 am
I guess part of me reads this and forgets exactly how real it was, a benefit (or misfortune maybe?) I have for not living at this time in Japan! It was a brutal time and easy to forget the actual trials and tribulations.
Try writing the present day oligarchs about how support for Buddhadharma is the last, best hope of Earth, publically proclaim that we'd be better off if certain religions were banned and their leaders were beheaded, and declare that adherents to the dominant religion are barking up the wrong tree and bound for hell, and see if you don't get a violent response...

You'll make it onto a dissident watchlist at the very least.

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Minobu » Sun May 12, 2019 6:19 am

hopefullotus wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:31 am
I have for not living at this time in Japan! It was a brutal time and easy to forget the actual trials and tribulations.
We live in far more brutal time bereft of the loyalty and honour of that time.

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by hopefullotus » Sun May 12, 2019 1:59 pm

While I wouldn't go so far as to say certain *religions* would be banned or that *buddhadharma* specifically is the last best hope, I actually have considered writing such a statement to officials here that the dignity of life and inherent worth of each person (which is the heart of the Lotus Sutra) is the last, best hope for humanity and that any teaching that goes counter to that should be banned (read: fundamentalism of any religion probably).

Minobu, we do live in harsh times too - now with very different forms of violence. It would be nice if the loyalty weren't lost...

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Yavana » Sun May 12, 2019 2:45 pm

hopefullotus wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 1:59 pm
I actually have considered writing such a statement to officials here that the dignity of life and inherent worth of each person (which is the heart of the Lotus Sutra) is the last, best hope for humanity and that any teaching that goes counter to that should be banned (read: fundamentalism of any religion probably).
Not to sound too Zen, but sometimes I see men around who look like they might be up to something shifty. If I try to remind them that crime is illegal, it doesn't help much, so sometimes a stronger message is needed. The plain and simple is often most effective so long as it is concise and carries sufficient depth upon closer inspection, though some fear this because it exposes them so plainly... and simply.

Banning "fundamentalism" in the name of "the inherent worth of each person," though? Sounds like a heavy restriction based on lovely sounding words and nebulous ideas. But there is only so much that can be said before any one of us must retire from making our point and "head for the hills" or figurative mountain top, as it were.

That Soka Gakkai stuff is more likely crafted by and towards the preferences of the reigning global oligarchy than in contrast to it, I think. The indirect, concatenative, and hidden implications of words and ideas is interesting to unpack in regard to subjects like this.

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Queequeg » Sun May 12, 2019 3:31 pm

Another letter Nichiren wrote to a disciple who was imprisoned for following Nichiren:
Tomorrow I am to leave for the province of Sado. In the cold tonight, I think of what it must be like for you in prison, and it pains me. Admirable Nichirō, because you have read the entirety of the Lotus Sutra with both the physical and spiritual aspects of your life, you will also be able to save your father and mother, your six kinds of relatives, and all living beings. Others read the Lotus Sutra with their mouths alone, in word alone, but they do not read it with their hearts. And even if they read it with their hearts, they do not read it with their actions. It is reading the sutra with both one’s body and mind that is truly praiseworthy! Since the sutra teaches that “the young sons of heavenly beings will wait on him and serve him. Swords and staves will not touch him and poison will have no power to harm him,” certainly nothing untoward will befall you. When you are released from prison, please come as quickly as you can. I am eager to see you, and to show you that I too am well.

With my deep respect,

Nichiren
From Selection of the Time;
I say to you, my disciples, try practicing as the Lotus Sutra teaches, exerting yourselves without begrudging your lives! Test the truth of Buddhism now! Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.
Recall also, Nichiren was moved and redoubled his efforts when two illiterate farmers were executed for following him.

No joke.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Yavana » Sun May 12, 2019 8:01 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 3:31 pm
Recall also, Nichiren was moved and redoubled his efforts when two illiterate farmers were executed for following him.

No joke.
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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by dude » Mon May 13, 2019 7:36 am

That Soka Gakkai stuff is more likely crafted by and towards the preferences of the reigning global oligarchy than in contrast to it, I think. The indirect, concatenative, and hidden implications of words and ideas is interesting to unpack in regard to subjects like this.


Why do you say that?
What relationship do the global oligarchs have with the SGI?
What values does the SGI share with them?

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Minobu » Mon May 13, 2019 6:26 pm

why bother worrying about the gakki and the what if's and the what they do....unless you are looking to be a sgi leader...forget the political crap...study real Buddhism...put your mind in that arena and that arena alone..

Ex SGI people are mostly malcontents...i left it to further see what this Buddhism is all really about and it's core teachings..

One day about a year before the official break up ..i faced East did gongyo and chanted a few hours with one thing in mind "what is this really all about ???"
About a year later at New Year's morning gongyo they told us...i knew it was the beginning of the end...now i see my p[rayers were answered...it took years but i now know...it's not about any organization.

.became a Hokkeko, then nothing , then found Esangha and the rest is just fine...

Buddhism is filled with sectarianism and infighting...the lesson...RUN!!!

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Yavana » Mon May 13, 2019 8:27 pm

dude wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:36 am
What relationship do the global oligarchs have with the SGI?
Hmm. Maybe none. Not like SGI is involved in politics. Thanks for making me think.
What values does the SGI share with them?
Good point. On second thought, SGI is pretty much just orthodox Nichiren Buddhism ...

...

Getting a cold. Gonna go take some of those blue NyQuil tablets and lay down.

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by hopefullotus » Tue May 14, 2019 1:04 am

dude wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:36 am
That Soka Gakkai stuff is more likely crafted by and towards the preferences of the reigning global oligarchy than in contrast to it, I think. The indirect, concatenative, and hidden implications of words and ideas is interesting to unpack in regard to subjects like this.


Why do you say that?
What relationship do the global oligarchs have with the SGI?
What values does the SGI share with them?
dude, I was going to question this too. It's not really on track with my post but I don't really agree that SGI is doing anything the global oligarchs want... on the contrary, what SGI does tends to be fairly counter culture, at least in America... many fellow youth are anti-capitalists and anti-fascists in the org. We have even started discussing Compassionate Anarchy in our spare time.

hopefullotus
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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by hopefullotus » Tue May 14, 2019 1:07 am

Minobu wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:26 pm
why bother worrying about the gakki and the what if's and the what they do....unless you are looking to be a sgi leader...forget the political crap...study real Buddhism...put your mind in that arena and that arena alone..

Ex SGI people are mostly malcontents...i left it to further see what this Buddhism is all really about and it's core teachings..

One day about a year before the official break up ..i faced East did gongyo and chanted a few hours with one thing in mind "what is this really all about ???"
About a year later at New Year's morning gongyo they told us...i knew it was the beginning of the end...now i see my p[rayers were answered...it took years but i now know...it's not about any organization.

.became a Hokkeko, then nothing , then found Esangha and the rest is just fine...

Buddhism is filled with sectarianism and infighting...the lesson...RUN!!!
I've been taking this approach too. I'm going to try the online sangha for Nichiren Shu soon. But I still remain friends with people in the org and am still currently a district leader.

Anyway, I can't change the org in one day, but I can keep Nichiren's spirit alive in myself by reading these passages from the gosho and I can try to act in accordance to the Lotus Sutra.

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Minobu » Tue May 14, 2019 3:30 am

hopefullotus wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:07 am
Minobu wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:26 pm
why bother worrying about the gakki and the what if's and the what they do....unless you are looking to be a sgi leader...forget the political crap...study real Buddhism...put your mind in that arena and that arena alone..

Ex SGI people are mostly malcontents...i left it to further see what this Buddhism is all really about and it's core teachings..

One day about a year before the official break up ..i faced East did gongyo and chanted a few hours with one thing in mind "what is this really all about ???"
About a year later at New Year's morning gongyo they told us...i knew it was the beginning of the end...now i see my p[rayers were answered...it took years but i now know...it's not about any organization.

.became a Hokkeko, then nothing , then found Esangha and the rest is just fine...

Buddhism is filled with sectarianism and infighting...the lesson...RUN!!!
I've been taking this approach too. I'm going to try the online sangha for Nichiren Shu soon. But I still remain friends with people in the org and am still currently a district leader.

Anyway, I can't change the org in one day, but I can keep Nichiren's spirit alive in myself by reading these passages from the gosho and I can try to act in accordance to the Lotus Sutra.
I don't know which Shu site you are going to. But if it is the Yahoo site...they will answer all your questions...it's not so visibly active...but they watch for questions and are very ready to help inform.

Shu is the original...the real deal. others like the one illazara is in follow the same doctrine...ShoShu is some weird anomaly cropped up on it's own...ask Q...i learned so much from hassling :rolling: :sage: :rolling: Q and arguing with him...please do take my lead :guns: :rolleye: :guns:

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by dude » Tue May 14, 2019 6:54 am

hopefullotus wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 1:59 pm
While I wouldn't go so far as to say certain *religions* would be banned or that *buddhadharma* specifically is the last best hope, I actually have considered writing such a statement to officials here that the dignity of life and inherent worth of each person (which is the heart of the Lotus Sutra) is the last, best hope for humanity and that any teaching that goes counter to that should be banned (read: fundamentalism of any religion probably).

Minobu, we do live in harsh times too - now with very different forms of violence. It would be nice if the loyalty weren't lost...
I love your spirit :smile:

But times have changed in seven centuries. We've done away with kings and emperors, but all state power now derives from the people, so the people themselves are, collectively, the sovereign.
Of course human dignity is the last best hope for the world, which makes propagation of Nichiren Buddhism) at this turbulent time so necessary, difficult as it may be. But I doubt that the buddha would advocate banning other teachings in this more reasonable age. Maybe to forbid the government to promote them, as our laws do...

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by illarraza » Wed May 22, 2019 1:38 am

Yavana wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:52 am
hopefullotus wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:31 am
I guess part of me reads this and forgets exactly how real it was, a benefit (or misfortune maybe?) I have for not living at this time in Japan! It was a brutal time and easy to forget the actual trials and tribulations.
Try writing the present day oligarchs about how support for Buddhadharma is the last, best hope of Earth, publically proclaim that we'd be better off if certain religions were banned and their leaders were beheaded, and declare that adherents to the dominant religion are barking up the wrong tree and bound for hell, and see if you don't get a violent response...

You'll make it onto a dissident watchlist at the very least.
I did that in a letter I wrote to Bill Clinton when he was president. As far as I know, they (the USA government) never retaliated. How would you know if you are on a watch list?

Mark

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Re: Nichiren's relationship with Shijo Kingo?

Post by Queequeg » Wed May 22, 2019 1:45 am

illarraza wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:38 am
Yavana wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:52 am
hopefullotus wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:31 am
I guess part of me reads this and forgets exactly how real it was, a benefit (or misfortune maybe?) I have for not living at this time in Japan! It was a brutal time and easy to forget the actual trials and tribulations.
Try writing the present day oligarchs about how support for Buddhadharma is the last, best hope of Earth, publically proclaim that we'd be better off if certain religions were banned and their leaders were beheaded, and declare that adherents to the dominant religion are barking up the wrong tree and bound for hell, and see if you don't get a violent response...

You'll make it onto a dissident watchlist at the very least.
I did that in a letter I wrote to Bill Clinton when he was president. As far as I know, they (the USA government) never retaliated. How would you know if you are on a watch list?

Mark
Did you get a response? Did it include an envelope for you to send in a donation to the Clinton Foundation?

I think you can file a FOIA with the FBI and other federal agencies. If you travel internationally, you might get an idea if you're hassled at immigration on your return.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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