Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

bcol01
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Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by bcol01 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:34 am

How do you practice and what materials or books do you read? Who do you look up to?

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Miroku
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by Miroku » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:00 am

Not a nichiren buddhist, but my guess would be lotus sutra and nichiren's own writing? There is a really nice translation of lotus sutra at 84000 project.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

tkp67
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by tkp67 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:30 pm

I don't consider myself independent as much as I simply practice outside the formality of a school or lay organization.

My practice has still been facilitated by members of an organization (SGI) and the materials I use for study are part of their free resources. I have been given very hands off and limited instruction but I cannot state the impact of that guidance in my particular case.

The writings and simply chanting daimoku has had profound benefits in my life as has the practice of gosho but I do not pretend to posses the skill that would be developed with more guidance.

There where many obstacles and the draw to these teachings too powerful for me to simply abandon them but admittedly this approach is relative to my capacity. Since and out of reverence for the practice I do not attempt to replicate a gohonzon my practiced is limited. I have chanted in front of an SGI member's gohonzon for which I am grateful.

I really need to leave the impression that in my own practice finding a suitable school to which I can practice with an authentic object of devotion with more regularity (I have no preconceived notions to which one is correct for me) as well as other deeper aspects of practice is my next goal.

Over ten years the changes seem to leave me more capable than the day before so I have no vision for where I would like to be but rather my practice has one aspect that has should be noted. I have been consistent over the ten years according to my capacity. When I was limited to only chanting simply daimoku I did so with great faith and often even if only in my own mind.

Application over the term has transformed my life in many positive ways so please I can only encourage you but please do not derive from this the promotion of an independent lineage of Nichiren practice as it could lead to improper practice and this could result in slander against the teachings and this could have deep karmic repercussions.

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Queequeg
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:23 pm

Independent of what?
I, Nichiren, am not the founder of any school, nor am I a latter-day follower of any older school. I am a priest without precepts, neither keeping the precepts nor breaking them. I am an ordinary creature like an ox or a sheep, who is neither particularly wise nor ignorant.
-The Blessings of the Lotus Sutra

There are organized groups and their purpose is to disseminate the teachings and support people's practice. Committing to one or the other is basically commitment to an intentional community.

Find a teacher and community that conducts themselves kindly and ethically. Listen and if it makes sense, pursue learning and practice with them.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

bcol01
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by bcol01 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:56 pm

Ty Que

Gassho
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:23 pm
Independent of what?
I, Nichiren, am not the founder of any school, nor am I a latter-day follower of any older school. I am a priest without precepts, neither keeping the precepts nor breaking them. I am an ordinary creature like an ox or a sheep, who is neither particularly wise nor ignorant.
-The Blessings of the Lotus Sutra

There are organized groups and their purpose is to disseminate the teachings and support people's practice. Committing to one or the other is basically commitment to an intentional community.

Find a teacher and community that conducts themselves kindly and ethically. Listen and if it makes sense, pursue learning and practice with them.

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Bois de Santal
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by Bois de Santal » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:47 pm

Miroku wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:00 am
Not a nichiren buddhist, but my guess would be lotus sutra and nichiren's own writing? There is a really nice translation of lotus sutra at 84000 project.
I didn't get as far as reading the translation but this caught my eye in the introduction by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche:
The Japanese chant Namu myōhō renge kyō (南無妙法蓮華經 “Homage to the White Lotus of the Good Dharma Sūtra”) has become the primary practice of tens of thousands of so-called Buddhists around the world."
Oblivious to irony he then gives a lecture on how we should respect those who carry out different forms of buddhist practice.

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Miroku
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by Miroku » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:48 pm

Bois de Santal wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:47 pm
Miroku wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:00 am
Not a nichiren buddhist, but my guess would be lotus sutra and nichiren's own writing? There is a really nice translation of lotus sutra at 84000 project.
I didn't get as far as reading the translation but this caught my eye in the introduction by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche:
The Japanese chant Namu myōhō renge kyō (南無妙法蓮華經 “Homage to the White Lotus of the Good Dharma Sūtra”) has become the primary practice of tens of thousands of so-called Buddhists around the world."
Oblivious to irony he then gives a lecture on how we should respect those who carry out different forms of buddhist practice.
He calls that everyone. Don't worry. :D It's his way of saying it does not have to be as it seems, but it might. Even his own students.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

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Bois de Santal
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by Bois de Santal » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:16 pm

He calls that everyone. Don't worry. :D It's his way of saying it does not have to be as it seems, but it might. Even his own students.
I did wonder if something like that might be the case. Especially as I myself don't like the term 'buddhist' at all. It just puts people into a little box. Unfortunately the english language makes the term difficult to avoid.

mansurhirbi87
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by mansurhirbi87 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:08 am

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:23 pm
Independent of what?
I, Nichiren, am not the founder of any school, nor am I a latter-day follower of any older school. I am a priest without precepts, neither keeping the precepts nor breaking them. I am an ordinary creature like an ox or a sheep, who is neither particularly wise nor ignorant.
-The Blessings of the Lotus Sutra

There are organized groups and their purpose is to disseminate the teachings and support people's practice. Committing to one or the other is basically commitment to an intentional community.

Find a teacher and community that conducts themselves kindly and ethically. Listen and if it makes sense, pursue learning and practice with them.
please, let me know the title of this gosho, Q

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rory
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by rory » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:17 am

Bois de Santal wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:16 pm
He calls that everyone. Don't worry. :D It's his way of saying it does not have to be as it seems, but it might. Even his own students.
I did wonder if something like that might be the case. Especially as I myself don't like the term 'buddhist' at all. It just puts people into a little box. Unfortunately the english language makes the term difficult to avoid.
What's wrong with Buddhist? The Chinese use it , the Japanese use it to describe their beliefs (these are the two languages I'm familiar with, of course there are more). If someone says they are Buddhist I know we share de minimis the values of The Dhammapada.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

tkp67
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by tkp67 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:21 am

could difference and commonality be two perceived aspects of the same phenomenon?

tkp67
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by tkp67 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:31 am

mansurhirbi87 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:08 am
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:23 pm
Independent of what?
I, Nichiren, am not the founder of any school, nor am I a latter-day follower of any older school. I am a priest without precepts, neither keeping the precepts nor breaking them. I am an ordinary creature like an ox or a sheep, who is neither particularly wise nor ignorant.
-The Blessings of the Lotus Sutra

There are organized groups and their purpose is to disseminate the teachings and support people's practice. Committing to one or the other is basically commitment to an intentional community.

Find a teacher and community that conducts themselves kindly and ethically. Listen and if it makes sense, pursue learning and practice with them.
please, let me know the title of this gosho, Q
it was mentioned in his post now noted in bold

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Queequeg
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by Queequeg » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:56 am

Miroku wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:48 pm
Bois de Santal wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:47 pm
Miroku wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:00 am
Not a nichiren buddhist, but my guess would be lotus sutra and nichiren's own writing? There is a really nice translation of lotus sutra at 84000 project.
I didn't get as far as reading the translation but this caught my eye in the introduction by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche:
The Japanese chant Namu myōhō renge kyō (南無妙法蓮華經 “Homage to the White Lotus of the Good Dharma Sūtra”) has become the primary practice of tens of thousands of so-called Buddhists around the world."
Oblivious to irony he then gives a lecture on how we should respect those who carry out different forms of buddhist practice.
He calls that everyone. Don't worry. :D It's his way of saying it does not have to be as it seems, but it might. Even his own students.
That so-called guru.

:rolling:

He'd agree with me, I think.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

LolCat
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by LolCat » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:50 am

Edit - material unrelated to topic.

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Miroku
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by Miroku » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:46 am

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:56 am
Miroku wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:48 pm
Bois de Santal wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:47 pm


I didn't get as far as reading the translation but this caught my eye in the introduction by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche:

Oblivious to irony he then gives a lecture on how we should respect those who carry out different forms of buddhist practice.
He calls that everyone. Don't worry. :D It's his way of saying it does not have to be as it seems, but it might. Even his own students.
That so-called guru.

:rolling:

He'd agree with me, I think.
:twothumbsup: :lol: :focus:
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

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Queequeg
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by Queequeg » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:56 pm

Miroku wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:46 am
:twothumbsup: :lol: :focus:
The teaching on the LS available on Youtube is good. He very acutely identifies the main teaching as Buddhanature.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

NichirensGhost
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by NichirensGhost » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:53 pm

All Buddhists are independent.

Call yourself whatever you feel comfortable with, or not. The term Buddha itself only came about out of necessity. Gods of almost all varieties were 'named'. Spirits and Protective forces too were already designated by one name or another. We had many of the 10 worlds labeled, so providing a name for the life-state of Buddha-hood - and then having the 'religious culture' that grew out of that, and assume that name as its' own, was simple adaptation.

The Lotus Sutra is key. Nichiren deciphered that key and spent his life laying a foundation that could stand to be adopted.

Your Buddha nature is up to you to bring forth. Nichiren provided the Gohonzon, in large part [in my NOT humble opinion], to depersonalize the nature [Buddha] from the person [Shakyamuni/Nichiren...whoever]. To allow it to be YOURS. It is YOUR Buddha nature that you must bring out. It does not exist outside of you. Had he NOT inscribed it, what shape would the statuary take? Look at the Fat Buddha statues. Does that figure make sense for an ascetic? Ah, but as a means oh honoring an achievement, that is a reason to give him girth (when the rest of the world was starving... he MUST have known something others did not!!!). Truly old statuary show him as svelte, beautiful. Appropriately so, for an ascetic, prince.

The Gohonzon is yet another mark of the genius that was Nichiren. To understand the very human need that we all have to use all of our senses including our sight (for those of us fortunate enough to have it) to focus, not on someone else, but rather on our deepest self. Our greatest potential. To bring our Buddha nature to the fore. To make Buddha-hood, our 'dominant world' {of the 10 possible worlds that could be your 'go-to world'. Hunger, anger, hell, tranquility,etc...}.

However much I may take issue with organizations that promote Nichiren Buddhist practice (all have issues), in my nearly 50 years of daily practice, I appreciate the translations of the writings of Nichiren Daishonin, the translations of the Lotus Sutra (along with miscellaneous 'specialized' dictionaries and such), I consider the SGI to be the most honest purveyor of Nichiren's teachings.

I only know of the Nichiren Shu [the Priest Hood] and from my experience them before they broke with SGI and after, I find them to be completely off the mark.

I hope this helps.

NichirensGhost
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by NichirensGhost » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:05 pm

tkp67 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:30 pm
I don't consider myself independent as much as I simply practice outside the formality of a school or lay organization.

My practice has still been facilitated by members of an organization (SGI) and the materials I use for study are part of their free resources. I have been given very hands off and limited instruction but I cannot state the impact of that guidance in my particular case.

The writings and simply chanting daimoku has had profound benefits in my life as has the practice of gosho but I do not pretend to posses the skill that would be developed with more guidance.

There where many obstacles and the draw to these teachings too powerful for me to simply abandon them but admittedly this approach is relative to my capacity. Since and out of reverence for the practice I do not attempt to replicate a gohonzon my practiced is limited. I have chanted in front of an SGI member's gohonzon for which I am grateful.

I really need to leave the impression that in my own practice finding a suitable school to which I can practice with an authentic object of devotion with more regularity (I have no preconceived notions to which one is correct for me) as well as other deeper aspects of practice is my next goal.

Over ten years the changes seem to leave me more capable than the day before so I have no vision for where I would like to be but rather my practice has one aspect that has should be noted. I have been consistent over the ten years according to my capacity. When I was limited to only chanting simply daimoku I did so with great faith and often even if only in my own mind.

Application over the term has transformed my life in many positive ways so please I can only encourage you but please do not derive from this the promotion of an independent lineage of Nichiren practice as it could lead to improper practice and this could result in slander against the teachings and this could have deep karmic repercussions.
I am a newbie to this bulletin board thing, so I hope I'm putting my text in the 'proper place' relative to the quoted stuff.

My comment is first to applaud your tenacity! 10 years!! Wow! I mean this sincerely, I am impressed. Don't be too worried about the Gohonzon

tkp67
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by tkp67 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:41 pm

Thank you for the kind words. I do not doubt my connection with shakymuni through the treasure tower of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and remain faithful in this conviction.

NMRK

narhwal90
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Re: Any independent Nichiren Buddhists here?

Post by narhwal90 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:17 am

Speaking as a 30+ year NSA then SGI member up to now, I would hesitate to suggest them as the most honest purveyor- they have their own official interpretations and methods, some of which I'm skeptical of. Likewise with respect to some of what I understand of some of the other Nichiren schools- but even so there is much to appreciate in each. I am deeply grateful for the study material SGI puts online and the person-to-person outreach that found me back in 1987, and for the friends I made back then who I still chant with on occasion.

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