The Writings of Nichiren

tkp67
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by tkp67 »

Those who seek the way, however, should reject such one-sided views, transcending disputes between one’s own school and others, and should not treat others with contempt.
The Opening of the Eyes

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... Part%20Two
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Minobu
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

Shoho wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:09 am

The purpose of chanting the Daimoku is to attain enlightenment.
When we chant to the gohonzon it is to praise the Buddha and the Law(人法一箇). It has nothing to do with fulfilling desires.
The idea of chanting for ‘things’ is an incorrect teaching.
Is chanting for ‘things’ a cause? Well obviously it would be considered a cause. But it is not the reason we chant the Daimoku.
Please look up the meaning of 一大事因縁(the one great cause the Buddha appears.
一大事因緣


Gassho
正法
You are right in saying the practice is for enlightenment. More important the enlightenments one receives lead sto Buddhahood .

But Nichiren Shonin did chant for things..rain, in open competition ..protection from invaders , peace and prosperity of the people...i believe He chanted and caused people or someone to live longer...and who knows what else..

MyoHo RenGe is not owned and controlled like the Catholic Pope has with God and the whole divine thing where he alone has the direct line to God and cannot say or do anything wrong lol...

it's always been there and people's from all sorts of cultures and times have dipped into that well of use and understanding of MyoHo RenGe..

The Holy Alchemists of Europe and ancient Arab worlds , knew of It and how to manipulate worldly things with It...is that blasphemy ..is that corrupt...no friggin way..itsa good thing..it's a level of learning and understanding of MyoHo RenGe without Gohonzon and the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.
We are back to that today and the Gakki proved it's worth..Because Nichiren shonin proved with His life it can manifest stuff for you and protect you...whats praying for rain got to do with Enlightenment and Buddhood...everything actually if you look to those events as learning experiences of what exactly you are dealing with...life itself ..something that produces both defiled and enlightened and is neither..all things manifested in this reality are due to this Law or Dharma..it's not a thing..itsa Law..you cannot hold it in your hand ..it's not some source like well water..itsa Law or Dharma.

Most people of the street , even if they are Bodhisattvas of the Earth are blind to Buddhahood ....and enlightenment is a mere word to describe the unknowable ..so like how are you going to get them to voice the Holy Words which lead to their Liberation...
HOW?
The compassion of Buddha , giving us one of His Leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth..and looky here...almost 800 years after His death it's on you tube..

so like hell yeah it's for Buddhahood...but we the Bodhisattvas of the Earth who are hold outs on that waiting till Samsara is once again emptied of common mortals , ...and the whole thing fills up again and another Buddha comes....So we idle away our time curing people and releasing ourselves from poverty and finding that parking spot to make our day seem a little bit blessed ..and we carry on...As for moi...i let you know when i go full blown hedonistic mixed with Compassion.. always mixed with compassion...

i like you by the way ...you are a good teacher and I need them desperately..you brought stuff that i have not thought of or heard before..
Shoho
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by Shoho »

Hello
First of all let me apologize if I caused you any consternation.
My post was nottdirected at you personally. I would never cast doubt on anyone’s faith or practice.
My goal is to correct the erroneous concepts that have been spread in the west for more than 60 years with regards to the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.


My dear friend. I am afraid you assume that participants chant to fulfill material desires. This is a unfair and unfitting assumption in regards to my practice. No where in this thread is that encouraged (nor discouraged for that matter).

I never assume anything.

However I would caution against slighting those that chant for material things. This may sound counter-intuitive but it is not.

This concept is very deep, but as i stated the purpose of practice is enlightenment.
The desires one has will unfold as a matter of course. The main thing is to achieve ‘kyochi myogo’

Nichiren's Buddhism is capable of fulfilling the wishes of the buddha of the ten directions and three times by opening the doors of Buddhism to all sentient beings. Unique to this sutra and one of the metrics that make it superior is the capacity for it to enlighten incorrigible believers.

Now my dear friend it is obvious you have a good heart, and see the sutra from the lens of conviction. This is wonderful. However the icchantika do not have this conviction or desire. Yet to fulfill the wishes of thus come one Shakyamuni the doors must be opened for them.

I do believe this methodology has allowed for expansion in the west because the daimoku integrated into the lives of icchantika converts them. This fulfills the wishes of all buddhas. It fulfills the truth that neither Shakyamuni nor Nichiren are stingy in any manner but rather posses unfathomable wisdom and compassion without bounds.

PERSONALLY I renounced materialism and family wealth for the purpose of humanitarian virtue well before I knew what Buddhism so it didn't line up with my own personal causes, capacity and condition. I did spend many years observing peoples from these practices, their minds and the transformation to glean the true nature of these variances and what they mean in regards to paying one's debt of gratitude.

Upon deep consideration I realized that while it did not appeal to me the very notion of doing so (chanting for things) would lead the icchantika to see the manifestation of good and evil in their own mind through their own volition and thus enter the doors of buddhism. Because they are icchantika they don't believe in the realms exist but they do not deny their own earthy desires. That is why the daimoku is given to them according to what they do believe and what appeals with them.

It is dependent upon ones karma whether the begin ti practice. For someone to use the ‘benefits’ line as a ‘selling point’ cheapens the Daishonins teachings (imho).

As I understand it the only thing one needs to fear is the doubt that this good medicine will fail to work for all other beings. It works according to time, cause, capacity and conditions which are not homogeneous across humanity. Thus the variation is natural and still the medicine is designed to work will all minds in this later age.

In my mind this is proof of the potency of Nichiren's buddhism and that this also pints to the true nature of his enlightenment, not an impractical or improper use daimoku.

I do understand however how it seems unreasonable once the tethers of materialism are cast off. Sadly the world I inhabit, most people embrace those tethers like a child embraces its mother.

Gassho
正法
Shoho
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by Shoho »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:35 pm
Those who seek the way, however, should reject such one-sided views, transcending disputes between one’s own school and others, and should not treat others with contempt.
The Opening of the Eyes

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... Part%20Two
Those who seek the way, however, should reject such one-sided views, transcending disputes between one’s own school and others, and should not treat others with contempt.

This is an out of context quote.
If one reads further on in this gosho you they will see what is said regarding this concept.
One may research the priest ‘ryokanbo’, and see what his actual name was and why Nichiren made a joke about it.

One must guard against changing anything that the Daishonin teaches. It is a form of slander.
Gassho
tkp67
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by tkp67 »

Shoho wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:00 am Hello
First of all let me apologize if I caused you any consternation.
My post was nottdirected at you personally. I would never cast doubt on anyone’s faith or practice.
My goal is to correct the erroneous concepts that have been spread in the west for more than 60 years with regards to the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.
Public (internet forum in particular) shakabuku of the past actions of any Nichiren interest goes against the writings and the lotus sutra and offers no benefit in propagation of the teachings even if it is to correct a perceived error of the west. I can unpack this in great detail if you wish but here are some Gosho references I base my position on. From a simple yet pragmatic perspective discord makes those who first encounter the teachings think that they are discordant in nature and slander it by adopting that perspective.

The first quote also is a response to your next post. In response to quote context. I include the whole reference and post conservatively in regards to text out of respect for site rules. Once again the first quote also reinforces the meaning of the quote you feel is out of context.

Remember my friend context is relative to cause, capacity and condition so one should never assume the minds of western people being in regards to cause, capacity and condition. Remember my dear friend the goshos where Nichiren says the minds of the evil and the icchantika who chant the daimoku with faith will straighten as mugwort does when grown with hemp.

To doubt their incorrect use will end up leading to buddhahood doubts the efficiency of Nichiren's teachings, Shakyamuni's teachings and the essence of the sutra itself which is to open the doors of buddhahood for all peoples. I do however, most deeply understand how counter intuitive it is to someone who relishes in the virtue of these teachings. How glorious is one who has such a deep relationship with the teachings. I mean this most sincerely. Please however understand how compassion for those who do not posses this virtue can help propagate these teachings in even the darkest of places.
All disciples and lay supporters of Nichiren should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with the spirit of many in body but one in mind, transcending all differences among themselves10 to become as inseparable as fish and the water in which they swim. This spiritual bond is the basis for the universal transmission of the ultimate Law of life and death. Herein lies the true goal of Nichiren’s propagation. When you are so united, even the great desire for widespread propagation can be fulfilled. But if any of Nichiren’s disciples disrupt the unity of many in body but one in mind, they would be like warriors who destroy their own castle from within.
The Heritage of the Ultimate Law of Life

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/29

Bodhisattva Never Disparaging of old said that all people have the Buddha nature and that, if they embrace the Lotus Sutra, they will never fail to attain Buddhahood. He further stated that to slight a person is to slight the Buddha himself. Thus, his practice was to revere all people. He revered even those who did not embrace the Lotus Sutra because they too had the Buddha nature and might someday believe in the sutra. Therefore, it is all the more natural to revere those priests and lay people who do embrace the sutra.The fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra states, “If there were a person who spoke only one word to curse the lay persons or monks or nuns who uphold and preach the Lotus Sutra, then his offense would be even graver than that of cursing Shakyamuni Buddha to his face for the space of a kalpa.”7 The Lotus Sutra also states, “[If anyone sees a person who accepts and upholds this sutra and tries to expose the faults or evils of that person], whether what he speaks is true or not, [he will in his present existence be afflicted with white leprosy].”8 Take these teachings to heart, and always remember that believers in the Lotus Sutra should absolutely be the last to abuse one another. All those who keep faith in the Lotus Sutra are most certainly Buddhas, and one who slanders a Buddha commits a grave offense.
the fourteen slanders

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/92
The Universal Worthy Sutra states, “Without either cutting off earthly desires or separating themselves from the five desires, they can purify all their senses and wipe away all their offenses.” Great Concentration and Insight says, “The ignorance and dust of desires are enlightenment, and the sufferings of birth and death are nirvana.” The “Life Span” chapter of the Lotus Sutra says, “At all times I think to myself: How can I cause living beings to gain entry into the unsurpassed way and quickly acquire the body of a Buddha?” The “Expedient Means” chapter says, “The characteristics of the world are constantly abiding.” Surely such statements refer to these principles. Thus what is called the entity is none other than Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.
Earthly Desires Are Enlightenment

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/35
Shoho
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by Shoho »

tkp67 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:28 pm
Shoho wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:00 am Hello
First of all let me apologize if I caused you any consternation.
My post was nottdirected at you personally. I would never cast doubt on anyone’s faith or practice.
My goal is to correct the erroneous concepts that have been spread in the west for more than 60 years with regards to the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.
Public (internet forum in particular) shakabuku of the past actions of any Nichiren interest goes against the writings and the lotus sutra and offers no benefit in propagation of the teachings even if it is to correct a perceived error of the west. I can unpack this in great detail if you wish but here are some Gosho references I base my position on. From a simple yet pragmatic perspective discord makes those who first encounter the teachings think that they are discordant in nature and slander it by adopting that perspective.

The first quote also is a response to your next post. In response to quote context. I include the whole reference and post conservatively in regards to text out of respect for site rules. Once again the first quote also reinforces the meaning of the quote you feel is out of context.

Remember my friend context is relative to cause, capacity and condition so one should never assume the minds of western people being in regards to cause, capacity and condition. Remember my dear friend the goshos where Nichiren says the minds of the evil and the icchantika who chant the daimoku with faith will straighten as mugwort does when grown with hemp.

To doubt their incorrect use will end up leading to buddhahood doubts the efficiency of Nichiren's teachings, Shakyamuni's teachings and the essence of the sutra itself which is to open the doors of buddhahood for all peoples. I do however, most deeply understand how counter intuitive it is to someone who relishes in the virtue of these teachings. How glorious is one who has such a deep relationship with the teachings. I mean this most sincerely. Please however understand how compassion for those who do not posses this virtue can help propagate these teachings in even the darkest of places.
All disciples and lay supporters of Nichiren should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with the spirit of many in body but one in mind, transcending all differences among themselves10 to become as inseparable as fish and the water in which they swim. This spiritual bond is the basis for the universal transmission of the ultimate Law of life and death. Herein lies the true goal of Nichiren’s propagation. When you are so united, even the great desire for widespread propagation can be fulfilled. But if any of Nichiren’s disciples disrupt the unity of many in body but one in mind, they would be like warriors who destroy their own castle from within.
The Heritage of the Ultimate Law of Life

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/29

Bodhisattva Never Disparaging of old said that all people have the Buddha nature and that, if they embrace the Lotus Sutra, they will never fail to attain Buddhahood. He further stated that to slight a person is to slight the Buddha himself. Thus, his practice was to revere all people. He revered even those who did not embrace the Lotus Sutra because they too had the Buddha nature and might someday believe in the sutra. Therefore, it is all the more natural to revere those priests and lay people who do embrace the sutra.The fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra states, “If there were a person who spoke only one word to curse the lay persons or monks or nuns who uphold and preach the Lotus Sutra, then his offense would be even graver than that of cursing Shakyamuni Buddha to his face for the space of a kalpa.”7 The Lotus Sutra also states, “[If anyone sees a person who accepts and upholds this sutra and tries to expose the faults or evils of that person], whether what he speaks is true or not, [he will in his present existence be afflicted with white leprosy].”8 Take these teachings to heart, and always remember that believers in the Lotus Sutra should absolutely be the last to abuse one another. All those who keep faith in the Lotus Sutra are most certainly Buddhas, and one who slanders a Buddha commits a grave offense.
the fourteen slanders

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/92
The Universal Worthy Sutra states, “Without either cutting off earthly desires or separating themselves from the five desires, they can purify all their senses and wipe away all their offenses.” Great Concentration and Insight says, “The ignorance and dust of desires are enlightenment, and the sufferings of birth and death are nirvana.” The “Life Span” chapter of the Lotus Sutra says, “At all times I think to myself: How can I cause living beings to gain entry into the unsurpassed way and quickly acquire the body of a Buddha?” The “Expedient Means” chapter says, “The characteristics of the world are constantly abiding.” Surely such statements refer to these principles. Thus what is called the entity is none other than Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.
Earthly Desires Are Enlightenment

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/35
———/

Hello there
The goshos that you quote are seriously flawed. They are edited to project a sectarian viewpoint.
They are also heavily edited, omitting several key paragraphs and deleting others. On top of that the Gosho Zenshu is missing 138 known gosho. The Showa Teihon contains 486 and Showa Shintei contains 544. They both contain fragments and drawings.
Unless one is able to read the originals one is at a severe disadvantage. (the Zenshu is missing 25% of known writings)
To encounter hobo ideas and not speak out makes on an enemy of those committing slander. If one is unable to read these original documents one can hardly claim to have anything more than a very basic understanding of the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.
Gassho
正法
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Queequeg
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by Queequeg »

Shoho wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:43 pm
tkp67 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:28 pm
Shoho wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:00 am Hello
First of all let me apologize if I caused you any consternation.
My post was nottdirected at you personally. I would never cast doubt on anyone’s faith or practice.
My goal is to correct the erroneous concepts that have been spread in the west for more than 60 years with regards to the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.
Public (internet forum in particular) shakabuku of the past actions of any Nichiren interest goes against the writings and the lotus sutra and offers no benefit in propagation of the teachings even if it is to correct a perceived error of the west. I can unpack this in great detail if you wish but here are some Gosho references I base my position on. From a simple yet pragmatic perspective discord makes those who first encounter the teachings think that they are discordant in nature and slander it by adopting that perspective.

The first quote also is a response to your next post. In response to quote context. I include the whole reference and post conservatively in regards to text out of respect for site rules. Once again the first quote also reinforces the meaning of the quote you feel is out of context.

Remember my friend context is relative to cause, capacity and condition so one should never assume the minds of western people being in regards to cause, capacity and condition. Remember my dear friend the goshos where Nichiren says the minds of the evil and the icchantika who chant the daimoku with faith will straighten as mugwort does when grown with hemp.

To doubt their incorrect use will end up leading to buddhahood doubts the efficiency of Nichiren's teachings, Shakyamuni's teachings and the essence of the sutra itself which is to open the doors of buddhahood for all peoples. I do however, most deeply understand how counter intuitive it is to someone who relishes in the virtue of these teachings. How glorious is one who has such a deep relationship with the teachings. I mean this most sincerely. Please however understand how compassion for those who do not posses this virtue can help propagate these teachings in even the darkest of places.
All disciples and lay supporters of Nichiren should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with the spirit of many in body but one in mind, transcending all differences among themselves10 to become as inseparable as fish and the water in which they swim. This spiritual bond is the basis for the universal transmission of the ultimate Law of life and death. Herein lies the true goal of Nichiren’s propagation. When you are so united, even the great desire for widespread propagation can be fulfilled. But if any of Nichiren’s disciples disrupt the unity of many in body but one in mind, they would be like warriors who destroy their own castle from within.
The Heritage of the Ultimate Law of Life

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/29

Bodhisattva Never Disparaging of old said that all people have the Buddha nature and that, if they embrace the Lotus Sutra, they will never fail to attain Buddhahood. He further stated that to slight a person is to slight the Buddha himself. Thus, his practice was to revere all people. He revered even those who did not embrace the Lotus Sutra because they too had the Buddha nature and might someday believe in the sutra. Therefore, it is all the more natural to revere those priests and lay people who do embrace the sutra.The fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra states, “If there were a person who spoke only one word to curse the lay persons or monks or nuns who uphold and preach the Lotus Sutra, then his offense would be even graver than that of cursing Shakyamuni Buddha to his face for the space of a kalpa.”7 The Lotus Sutra also states, “[If anyone sees a person who accepts and upholds this sutra and tries to expose the faults or evils of that person], whether what he speaks is true or not, [he will in his present existence be afflicted with white leprosy].”8 Take these teachings to heart, and always remember that believers in the Lotus Sutra should absolutely be the last to abuse one another. All those who keep faith in the Lotus Sutra are most certainly Buddhas, and one who slanders a Buddha commits a grave offense.
the fourteen slanders

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/92
The Universal Worthy Sutra states, “Without either cutting off earthly desires or separating themselves from the five desires, they can purify all their senses and wipe away all their offenses.” Great Concentration and Insight says, “The ignorance and dust of desires are enlightenment, and the sufferings of birth and death are nirvana.” The “Life Span” chapter of the Lotus Sutra says, “At all times I think to myself: How can I cause living beings to gain entry into the unsurpassed way and quickly acquire the body of a Buddha?” The “Expedient Means” chapter says, “The characteristics of the world are constantly abiding.” Surely such statements refer to these principles. Thus what is called the entity is none other than Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.
Earthly Desires Are Enlightenment

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/35
———/

Hello there
The goshos that you quote are seriously flawed. They are edited to project a sectarian viewpoint.
They are also heavily edited, omitting several key paragraphs and deleting others. On top of that the Gosho Zenshu is missing 138 known gosho. The Showa Teihon contains 486 and Showa Shintei contains 544. They both contain fragments and drawings.
Unless one is able to read the originals one is at a severe disadvantage. (the Zenshu is missing 25% of known writings)
To encounter hobo ideas and not speak out makes on an enemy of those committing slander. If one is unable to read these original documents one can hardly claim to have anything more than a very basic understanding of the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.
Gassho
正法
Hi Shoho, can you please elaborate on the errors? Can you identify important issues that are lost in translation or through selective editing, etc. Its one thing to know that collections of writings in English translation are incomplete, but that does not offer any more understanding.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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Minobu
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

Shoho wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:43 pm

Hello there
The goshos that you quote are seriously flawed. They are edited to project a sectarian viewpoint.
They are also heavily edited, omitting several key paragraphs and deleting others. On top of that the Gosho Zenshu is missing 138 known gosho. The Showa Teihon contains 486 and Showa Shintei contains 544. They both contain fragments and drawings.
Unless one is able to read the originals one is at a severe disadvantage. (the Zenshu is missing 25% of known writings)
To encounter hobo ideas and not speak out makes on an enemy of those committing slander. If one is unable to read these original documents one can hardly claim to have anything more than a very basic understanding of the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.
Gassho
正法
I am in love...how long i waited for someone to open this door....look at my posts, my angst, my desperation...the quitting the practice cause it does not jive...and it's all cause of the machinations of men ...



Now you...i really hope you have the goods..
narhwal90
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by narhwal90 »

Same here- I hope the poster can present the substantial differences.
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Minobu
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

narhwal90 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:39 pm Same here- I hope the poster can present the substantial differences.
I think he or she can...got a great feeling about this...

it's like the one thing i have always been on about is the real thing..

Seriously the stuff i have accomplished with this practice, as you know.

it was all with the gakki so thats gotta tell you something...
I'm convinced they had heavy gods working with them back in the day..i could tell you weird stuff..

like the time i faced east ..the summer before the big divorce ...

i turned to the east whilst me ma's Butsudan was open and i really demanded to connect and find out what this practice is really all about...for i always felt like we were getting the minimalist of teaching...like we did not know what was gohonzon at the time, never knew Vedic gods were inscribed ..

so like after gongyo and some very focused chanting that summer morn ...months later ....New Years Morning Gongyo at cultural centre...breaking news ...the divorce was introduced...

"I turned to the person next to me and said" This is the beginning of the end "

and man that set the wheels turning...for me anyway...look at all that was revealed in the original independence movement and all the knowledge that poured out..then this guy from Manhattan , QQ, creates the site ichinen sanzen . com and we delved into it...remember Robin Beck and a Mark guy..man months of talking about shomon and homan or something like that...

thank you America and that guy Ross..i believe his name was this...he devoted the last part of his life with aids to this movement..

so hopefully our prayers are answered and at least another nudge towards lucidity...is in the works...even nudges in this practice is HUGE..said in my best Paris Hilton voice "HUGE"
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by _johnarundel_ »

Minobu wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:01 am
Shoho wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:43 pm

Hello there
The goshos that you quote are seriously flawed. They are edited to project a sectarian viewpoint.
They are also heavily edited, omitting several key paragraphs and deleting others. On top of that the Gosho Zenshu is missing 138 known gosho. The Showa Teihon contains 486 and Showa Shintei contains 544. They both contain fragments and drawings.
Unless one is able to read the originals one is at a severe disadvantage. (the Zenshu is missing 25% of known writings)
To encounter hobo ideas and not speak out makes on an enemy of those committing slander. If one is unable to read these original documents one can hardly claim to have anything more than a very basic understanding of the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.
Gassho
正法
I am in love...how long i waited for someone to open this door....look at my posts, my angst, my desperation...the quitting the practice cause it does not jive...and it's all cause of the machinations of men ...



Now you...i really hope you have the goods..


Hahahaha. I remember a post you made a few weeks ago on "Reply to Ueno" about mistranslations in the Gosho.
"The five characters of Myoho-Renge-Kyo are the core of the Lotus Sutra and the origin of all Buddhas throughout the entire world. Upon seeing the signs that these five characters now must be propagated, I, Nichiren, have set the precedent, today, at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law."

- Nichiren Daishonin, “Shuju onfurumai-gosho” 種種御振舞御書


https://www.nichirenshoshu.or.jp/eng/daishonin.html
tkp67
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by tkp67 »

The decades old debate will not have a outcome other than academic division based on linguistics.

The 3 goshos listed have proofs that are listed directly in the Lotus Sutra. Thew last two goshos are comprised of quotes from uncontested sutras so the argument is largely a straw man argument. The lotus has always been the proof on which his commentary is meant to be measured. The four standards are clear regarding this.

As far as the message in the first gosho the emerging from the earth chapter CLEARLY STATES the one mind of the bodhisattva of the earth.

https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc ... 15#para-48

Emerging from the Earth
Immeasurable thousands, ten thousands, millions,
a great host of bodhisattvas
p.256such as was never seen in the past—
I beg the most honored of two-legged beings to explain
where they have come from,
what causes and conditions bring them together!
Huge in body, with great transcendental powers,
unfathomable in wisdom,
firm in their intent and thought,
with the power of great perseverance,
the kind living beings delight to see—
where have they come from?
Each one of these bodhisattvas
brings with him a retinue
immeasurable in number
like the sands of the Ganges River.
Some of these great bodhisattvas
bring numbers equal to the sands of sixty thousand Ganges Rivers.
And this great multitude
with a single mind
seek the buddha way.
As far as the other two, if the Lotus and Nirvana sutra quotes those goshos detail are fraudulent or inaccurate simply prove as much by comparing the same passages through the other various lotus translations.

I do believe the meaning will hold up which is why these accusations never formulate into much more than adding confusion to the teachings which in and of itself is discussed in the teachings as well.
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Minobu
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:48 pm proofs that are listed directly in the Lotus Sutra.
Emerging from the Earth
Immeasurable thousands, ten thousands, millions,
a great host of bodhisattvas
p.256such as was never seen in the past—
I beg the most honored of two-legged beings to explain
where they have come from,
what causes and conditions bring them together!
Huge in body, with great transcendental powers,
unfathomable in wisdom,
firm in their intent and thought,
with the power of great perseverance,
the kind living beings delight to see—
where have they come from?
Each one of these bodhisattvas
brings with him a retinue
immeasurable in number
like the sands of the Ganges River.
Some of these great bodhisattvas
bring numbers equal to the sands of sixty thousand Ganges Rivers.
And this great multitude
with a single mind
seek the buddha way.
.
I wonder if any other humanoid beings were mentioned in the Lotus Sutra for the Age of Mappo .

If not then we are it then ...but we are students one leader there are four ...what would the other humanoid bodhisattvas of the earth who are not Bodhisattva Jogyo students be doing eh / ...but one of the other three ....and what of the fourth ...so like they could be doing some whole other dynamic we are not aware of...or like the TenDai crowd...who are pretty cool ..never read that section before ...it's like they are under a different one of the four leaders ...

cool huh !
illarraza
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:35 pm
Those who seek the way, however, should reject such one-sided views, transcending disputes between one’s own school and others, and should not treat others with contempt.
The Opening of the Eyes

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... Part%20Two
I would like to place this sentence in context, this is going to be long...

One may conclude from tpk67's other writings that she is declaring that those who chant Nam(u) myoho renge kyo should not dispute with others.

Since tpk66 neglects to place this passage in context with the preceding passage, the three following passages, and the entire canon of Nichiren, one might agree with this shallow understanding. First, here are the preceding and following passages with the passage that tpk67 chose:

"The non-Buddhist schools of such men as Vatsa and Vaipulya, which appeared in India after the Buddha’s passing, are even more wrong in their views and more cunning in their doctrines than their counterparts before the Buddha [because they borrowed ideas from Buddhism]. Similarly, since the introduction of Buddhism to China in the Later Han dynasty, non-Buddhist views and writings have become even more wrong and cunning than the pre-Buddhist writings of Confucianism that deal with the Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors of antiquity. Also the teachers of the Flower Garland, Dharma Characteristics, True Word, and other schools, jealous of the correct doctrines of the T’ien-t’ai school, brazenly interpret the words of the true sutra in such a way that they will accord with the provisional teachings.

Those who seek the way, however, should reject such one-sided views, transcending disputes between one’s own school and others, and should not treat others with contempt.

In the Lotus Sutra the Buddha says, “Among the sutras I have preached, now preach, and will preach [this Lotus Sutra is the most difficult to believe and the most difficult to understand].”

"Miao-lo remarks: “Though other sutras may call themselves the king among sutras, there is none that announces itself as foremost among all the sutras preached in the past, now being preached, or to be preached in the future.” He also says: “Concerning [the Buddha’s statement] that this wonderful sutra surpasses all those of past, present, and future, there are those who persist in going astray. Thus they commit the grave fault of slandering the sutra and for many long kalpas are subjected to sufferings.”

Startled by these passages in the sutra and its commentaries, I examined the entire body of sutras and the expositions and commentaries of the various teachers, and found that my doubts and suspicions melted away. But now those foolish True Word priests rely upon their mudras and mantras and believe that the True Word school is superior to the Lotus Sutra, simply because the Great Teacher Jikaku and their other teachers have assured them that the True Word is superior. Their views are not worthy of discussion."

Here is a better translation of these passages by Kyotsu Hori (with the passage in question italicized:

"Now, as for the assessments of the sutras by the founding fathers of the four Buddhist schools, heir judgments seem to conform, more or less, to sutras and their commentaries. However, they all seem to stick to the teaching of their own schools without correcting the errors of their own teachers. Their opinions are formed from egotism and distorted interpretations of sutras. It is self decorated egocentricity! Men of Vatsiputra and Vaipula Schools, after the death of the Buddha, were stronger in theology than Brahamanism before the rise of Buddhism in India. Confucianism since the Later han, when Buddhism was introduced to China, became more intricate than Confucianism in the time of the Three Emperors and Five Rulers, when Buddhism was unknown in China. In the same way, teachers of such schools as Kegon, Hosso, and Shingon, envious of T'ien-t'ai's true teaching, tend to resort to distorted interpretations of the true Lotus Sutra in order to fit it into their provisional teachings. Surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased, stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people.

It is said in the Lotus that among the sutras which had already been preached, are now being preached, and will be preached, the Lotus Sutra is supreme. Commenting on this, Grand Master Miao-le states,: 'Besides the Lotus Sutra, some sutras claim to be the king of sutras, but they are not really the first among sutras as they do not claim to be one among those which have already been preached, are being preached, and will be preached.' He also asserts, 'Although the Lotus Sutra is incomparable dharma above all the scriptures preached in the past, present, and future, many are confused about this, and they will suffer for ever from slandering the true dharma."

One might conclude that Nichiren was a hypocrite. He just harshly remonstrated with the four Buddhist schools, labeling their teachers with "self-decorated egocentricity", and concluding, "surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased, stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people."

In the entire canon of Nichiren, Nichiren wrote more than three thousand references to the errors of the various schools of Buddhism, their adherents, and the non-Buddhists. Furthermore, he wrote dozens of criticisms towards his own disciples who chanted Namu Myoho renge kyo but who embraced the Lotus Sutra (incorrectly). Regarding "surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased": Yes, not biased towards the opinions of those founding the four Buddhist schools and only relying on the Sutras themselves (particularly the Lotus Sutra). Regarding, "stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people.": One need remember to whom this treatise was entrusted, the Samurai Shijo Kingo. The layman Shijo Kingo was not yet sufficiently knowledgeable to engage in sectarian quarrels. Lastly, regarding "not despising other people", no True Buddhist despises other people. Nichiren, for example stated,"My only hatred is for the act of slandering the Law." He went so far as to call the Japanese "Attorney General", Hei no Seamon who tried to kill him, "my best friend in the world."(because it is thanks to one's enemies that one can attain Buddhahood).

Nichiren taught his disciples not to believe even those who claim to be his followers unless they have some proof of it in his own hand. The proof today is the Lotus Sutra and his authentic writings, believing and upholding them.

Today, it is the various Nichiren sects and their followers who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the writings of Nichiren, yet who call themselves "Nichiren Buddhists" who are to be corrected . Sects such as the Soka Gakkai and the Nichiren Shu who practice interfaith rather than the exclusive faith and practice of the Lotus Sutra are examples of those who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the teachings of Nichiren.

Nichiren admonishes his errant disciples, even those who chant Namu Myoho renge kyo:

“Many such examples of slander are also found among Nichiren’s disciples and lay believers.”

“They entirely look up to groups of icchantikas and rely on them as leaders and, reverencing slanderers against the Dharma, make them national teachers. Taking up the Classic Filial Piety of Confucius, they beat their parents’ heads and, while chanting the Lotus Sutra of Lord Shakya with their mouths, they go against the Master of teachings.”

"You also mentioned in your letter that the people connected with Ōta Jōmyō are apparently saying that the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra can in no way lead to enlightenment. They are making a serious mistake. Remember this about the theoretical and essential teachings of the Lotus Sutra: Which is shallow and which profound, which superior and which inferior, which lenient and which severe, and which subordinate and which primary must be judged in accordance with the time and the people’s capacity. There are three periods in which the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s lifetime should be propagated; the people’s capacity should be thought of in the same way."

and further down

"This doctrine concerning the theoretical and essential teachings is not my own [but was expounded by the Buddha]. Those who would distort it can only be possessed by the heavenly devil, or Pāpīyas, and will topple others along with themselves into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. How foolish they are! Teach this doctrine to others clearly as I have taught you these many years. Those who call themselves my disciples and practice the Lotus Sutra should all practice as I do."

"...Some of my disciples may be asking. “Does Nichiren really have an understanding superior to that of Jikaku and Chishō?”

"The noblest people in the present age are in no way superior to Shakra or the boy Snow Mountains, yet because of my low social position, they have rejected my wise words. That is why the country is now on the brink of ruin. How lamentable! And what I find even sadder is that I will be unable to save those disciples of mine who have pitied my sufferings."

"...Although my disciples had already heard this, when both great and small persecutions confronted us, some were so astounded and terrified that they even forsook their faith. Did I not warn you in advance?"

"...Faced with such criticisms, my disciples became quite downcast and complained that I had been too provocative in my attacks on the True Word school."

"To such a place, where friends from former times never come to visit, where I have been abandoned even by my own disciples..."

"It would seem that Nichiren’s disciples, after journeying to the capital, at first were careful not to forget their purpose, but later, led astray by the heavenly devil, they lost their senses completely. That is the way Sammi-bo was acting. You had better beware that you do not act the same way and incur the anger of heaven."

"Now I, Nichiren, understand these things because of what I myself have undergone. But even if there are those among my disciples who understand them, they fear the accusations of the times; believing that their lives, which are as frail as dew, are in fact to be relied upon, they backslide, keep their beliefs hidden in their hearts, or behave in other such ways."

"Therefore, no matter how I explain and try to persuade my own disciples, they still cannot seem to overcome their doubts, but behave like icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief. Therefore, I have quoted these passages of explanation from T’ien-t’ai, Miao-lo, and others in order to silence their ungrounded criticisms."

"You should read again and again the previous letter in which I explained that one should of course obey one’s teacher, sovereign, and parents, but should they commit wrongs, admonishing them is in fact being loyal to them."

"It has been twenty or more years now since I found myself in that situation and began the great battle. Not once have I thought of retreat. Among my disciples and followers, however, those who are cowards have for the most part either given in or retreated at heart."

"If you are of the same mind as Nichiren, you must be a Bodhisattva of the Earth. And if you are a Bodhisattva of the Earth, there is not the slightest doubt that you have been a disciple of Shakyamuni Buddha from the remote past."

Grand Master Miao-le was a man of the T'ien-pao Period toward the end of T'ang China. Having widely read and deeply contemplated canons of the San-lun (Sanron), Hua-yen (Kegon), Fa-hsiang (Hosso), and Chen-yen (Shingon) Schools, he concluded that those who do not know of the Original Buddha revealed in 'The Life Span of the Buddha' chapter are like 'beasts and birds, who may be talented but do not know of the land governed by the father. 'No matter how capable he may be' refers to men like Fa-ts'ang and Ch'eng-kuan of the Hua-yen (Kegon) School and Venerable Subhakarasimha (Shan-wu-wei) of the Chen-yen (Shingon) School, who were men of talent but, like children who do not know their father, did not know of the true and eternal Sakyamuni Buddha.

Today, sadly, these last are the men of the Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu.
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Minobu
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Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

Today, it is the various Nichiren sects and their followers who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the writings of Nichiren, yet who call themselves "Nichiren Buddhists" who are to be corrected . Sects such as the Soka Gakkai and the Nichiren Shu who practice interfaith rather than the exclusive faith and practice of the Lotus Sutra are examples of those who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the teachings of Nichiren.
i'm not really interested in gakkai anything ..they do their thing and it brings in millions...eventually like you and me we learn better.

So ilarraza I'm still independent and chant with , for it is hard for me to chant to anything outside of me...an image of the Shutai gohonzon on my imac...due to the fact i have given back two Gohonzons...

But I met a Nichiren Shu priest at a funeral when i turned to a stint in christianity for the first time in my life about 10 years ago..So during his service i did not chant...egads...and blessed myself with the Christian thing after He finished...very cool funeral by the way...he had this flint thing and made sparks and stuff...

long story as to why the backslide into the nether regions of religious paradigms.

Thing was it was too weird for this person to show up in my life...i chatted with him after the funeral...told him about my Nichiren sects i belonged to and stuff that happened in my life with the Gakkai such as curing my father of dead bone marrow and no longer lived on blood transfusions....

anyway this guy had some power other than his ego and like i really got a blast of something , an impetus to retrieve my practice...

it's been a bounce back and off again thing.

But i'm back...daily practice of my own making...I do a full three piece gongyo ...first i offer to all the Buddhist Gods and dharma protectors my recital of the Lotus Sutra and about a 15 minute chant session ...So Lord Shiva , Lord Agni , Lord Ganesha , Lord Brahma and Lord Indra whom are inscribed on Gohonzon, Lord Vishnu ,Lord Hanuman , Lord Krisna , Lady Lakshmi , Lady Saraswati , Buddha Goddess Tara , Lady Kahlika . Lady Kundalini Lady Durga,
and the four kings and all others i am unaware of...

So then after 15 minutes of chanting i do another 3 piece gongyo and offer this to the 3 treasures .. Lord Sakyamuni Buddha and His dharma ( hate using His) The Eternal Buddha MyoHo RenGe Kyo and the sangha...the sangha spanning the three time periods , anyone trying their hand at any form of Buddhism...they all get my efforts during the 15 minute chant thing ..
Then i read this ..

We respectfully dedicate all our merits now gathered to the Great Benevolent Teacher, Shakyamuni, the Eternal Buddha; to the Supreme Teaching, the Lotus Sutra; to the Leader of the Declining Latter Age of the Dharma, our founder, the Great Bodhisattva Nichiren Shonin; and to the benevolent forces of the universe who protect the Dharma!

May the Wonderful Dharma spread throughout the Ten Thousand Years of the Declining Latter Age of the Dharma!

May we realize this world is the Eternal Buddha's Pure Land!

May all beings under the heavens and within the four seas live in accordance with the Wonderful Dharma!

May peace permeate all the world and all beings enjoy peace and happiness!

May all beings live in safety and live long without misfortune!

May this peace and happiness last forever and all beings prosper! We pray that all beings awaken to the true nature of reality which is the Buddha Dharma!

May all beings of all realms be helped equally, overcome suffering, and gain the happiness of blissful liberation through the merits of following the teaching of the Lotus Sutra!

We pray for our ancestors, deceased relatives, and for all those who have passed away [especially for_________________]!

May we purify our minds, limit our desires, learn to be content, feel free to experience the quiet unassuming joys of life, and learn to abandon all attachments formed in the mind!

With this prayer, we endeavor to increase our understanding and appreciation of what others have given and contributed to us, and to develop constant, mindful consideration of how our thoughts and actions will beneficially contribute to others!
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo

Do a full 3 piece gongyo and chant for at least another 30 minutes for this prayer...


So i want to be a Nichiren shu guy so i can make a bustudan and enshrine a Shutei gohonzon...thats the one inscribed by Saint Nichiren and was at His bedside at Minobu...it has a stray mistake mark on it...which gives me pleasure...it reminds me of Persian rugs where they always make one mistake in them because to them only God is perfect...anything man made is not...


so why are you saying...
Nichiren Shu who practice interfaith[
also what are your thoughts on foot massage therapy , yoga and meditation...do you feel these are slanderous to what you seem to be worried about...
tkp67
Posts: 2057
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by tkp67 »

illarraza wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:19 am
tkp67 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:35 pm
Those who seek the way, however, should reject such one-sided views, transcending disputes between one’s own school and others, and should not treat others with contempt.
The Opening of the Eyes

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... Part%20Two
I would like to place this sentence in context, this is going to be long...

One may conclude from tpk67's other writings that she is declaring that those who chant Nam(u) myoho renge kyo should not dispute with others.

Since tpk66 neglects to place this passage in context with the preceding passage, the three following passages, and the entire canon of Nichiren, one might agree with this shallow understanding. First, here are the preceding and following passages with the passage that tpk67 chose:

"The non-Buddhist schools of such men as Vatsa and Vaipulya, which appeared in India after the Buddha’s passing, are even more wrong in their views and more cunning in their doctrines than their counterparts before the Buddha [because they borrowed ideas from Buddhism]. Similarly, since the introduction of Buddhism to China in the Later Han dynasty, non-Buddhist views and writings have become even more wrong and cunning than the pre-Buddhist writings of Confucianism that deal with the Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors of antiquity. Also the teachers of the Flower Garland, Dharma Characteristics, True Word, and other schools, jealous of the correct doctrines of the T’ien-t’ai school, brazenly interpret the words of the true sutra in such a way that they will accord with the provisional teachings.

Those who seek the way, however, should reject such one-sided views, transcending disputes between one’s own school and others, and should not treat others with contempt.

In the Lotus Sutra the Buddha says, “Among the sutras I have preached, now preach, and will preach [this Lotus Sutra is the most difficult to believe and the most difficult to understand].”

"Miao-lo remarks: “Though other sutras may call themselves the king among sutras, there is none that announces itself as foremost among all the sutras preached in the past, now being preached, or to be preached in the future.” He also says: “Concerning [the Buddha’s statement] that this wonderful sutra surpasses all those of past, present, and future, there are those who persist in going astray. Thus they commit the grave fault of slandering the sutra and for many long kalpas are subjected to sufferings.”

Startled by these passages in the sutra and its commentaries, I examined the entire body of sutras and the expositions and commentaries of the various teachers, and found that my doubts and suspicions melted away. But now those foolish True Word priests rely upon their mudras and mantras and believe that the True Word school is superior to the Lotus Sutra, simply because the Great Teacher Jikaku and their other teachers have assured them that the True Word is superior. Their views are not worthy of discussion."

Here is a better translation of these passages by Kyotsu Hori (with the passage in question italicized:

"Now, as for the assessments of the sutras by the founding fathers of the four Buddhist schools, heir judgments seem to conform, more or less, to sutras and their commentaries. However, they all seem to stick to the teaching of their own schools without correcting the errors of their own teachers. Their opinions are formed from egotism and distorted interpretations of sutras. It is self decorated egocentricity! Men of Vatsiputra and Vaipula Schools, after the death of the Buddha, were stronger in theology than Brahamanism before the rise of Buddhism in India. Confucianism since the Later han, when Buddhism was introduced to China, became more intricate than Confucianism in the time of the Three Emperors and Five Rulers, when Buddhism was unknown in China. In the same way, teachers of such schools as Kegon, Hosso, and Shingon, envious of T'ien-t'ai's true teaching, tend to resort to distorted interpretations of the true Lotus Sutra in order to fit it into their provisional teachings. Surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased, stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people.

It is said in the Lotus that among the sutras which had already been preached, are now being preached, and will be preached, the Lotus Sutra is supreme. Commenting on this, Grand Master Miao-le states,: 'Besides the Lotus Sutra, some sutras claim to be the king of sutras, but they are not really the first among sutras as they do not claim to be one among those which have already been preached, are being preached, and will be preached.' He also asserts, 'Although the Lotus Sutra is incomparable dharma above all the scriptures preached in the past, present, and future, many are confused about this, and they will suffer for ever from slandering the true dharma."

One might conclude that Nichiren was a hypocrite. He just harshly remonstrated with the four Buddhist schools, labeling their teachers with "self-decorated egocentricity", and concluding, "surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased, stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people."

In the entire canon of Nichiren, Nichiren wrote more than three thousand references to the errors of the various schools of Buddhism, their adherents, and the non-Buddhists. Furthermore, he wrote dozens of criticisms towards his own disciples who chanted Namu Myoho renge kyo but who embraced the Lotus Sutra (incorrectly). Regarding "surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased": Yes, not biased towards the opinions of those founding the four Buddhist schools and only relying on the Sutras themselves (particularly the Lotus Sutra). Regarding, "stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people.": One need remember to whom this treatise was entrusted, the Samurai Shijo Kingo. The layman Shijo Kingo was not yet sufficiently knowledgeable to engage in sectarian quarrels. Lastly, regarding "not despising other people", no True Buddhist despises other people. Nichiren, for example stated,"My only hatred is for the act of slandering the Law." He went so far as to call the Japanese "Attorney General", Hei no Seamon who tried to kill him, "my best friend in the world."(because it is thanks to one's enemies that one can attain Buddhahood).

Nichiren taught his disciples not to believe even those who claim to be his followers unless they have some proof of it in his own hand. The proof today is the Lotus Sutra and his authentic writings, believing and upholding them.

Today, it is the various Nichiren sects and their followers who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the writings of Nichiren, yet who call themselves "Nichiren Buddhists" who are to be corrected . Sects such as the Soka Gakkai and the Nichiren Shu who practice interfaith rather than the exclusive faith and practice of the Lotus Sutra are examples of those who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the teachings of Nichiren.

Nichiren admonishes his errant disciples, even those who chant Namu Myoho renge kyo:

“Many such examples of slander are also found among Nichiren’s disciples and lay believers.”

“They entirely look up to groups of icchantikas and rely on them as leaders and, reverencing slanderers against the Dharma, make them national teachers. Taking up the Classic Filial Piety of Confucius, they beat their parents’ heads and, while chanting the Lotus Sutra of Lord Shakya with their mouths, they go against the Master of teachings.”

"You also mentioned in your letter that the people connected with Ōta Jōmyō are apparently saying that the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra can in no way lead to enlightenment. They are making a serious mistake. Remember this about the theoretical and essential teachings of the Lotus Sutra: Which is shallow and which profound, which superior and which inferior, which lenient and which severe, and which subordinate and which primary must be judged in accordance with the time and the people’s capacity. There are three periods in which the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s lifetime should be propagated; the people’s capacity should be thought of in the same way."

and further down

"This doctrine concerning the theoretical and essential teachings is not my own [but was expounded by the Buddha]. Those who would distort it can only be possessed by the heavenly devil, or Pāpīyas, and will topple others along with themselves into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. How foolish they are! Teach this doctrine to others clearly as I have taught you these many years. Those who call themselves my disciples and practice the Lotus Sutra should all practice as I do."

"...Some of my disciples may be asking. “Does Nichiren really have an understanding superior to that of Jikaku and Chishō?”

"The noblest people in the present age are in no way superior to Shakra or the boy Snow Mountains, yet because of my low social position, they have rejected my wise words. That is why the country is now on the brink of ruin. How lamentable! And what I find even sadder is that I will be unable to save those disciples of mine who have pitied my sufferings."

"...Although my disciples had already heard this, when both great and small persecutions confronted us, some were so astounded and terrified that they even forsook their faith. Did I not warn you in advance?"

"...Faced with such criticisms, my disciples became quite downcast and complained that I had been too provocative in my attacks on the True Word school."

"To such a place, where friends from former times never come to visit, where I have been abandoned even by my own disciples..."

"It would seem that Nichiren’s disciples, after journeying to the capital, at first were careful not to forget their purpose, but later, led astray by the heavenly devil, they lost their senses completely. That is the way Sammi-bo was acting. You had better beware that you do not act the same way and incur the anger of heaven."

"Now I, Nichiren, understand these things because of what I myself have undergone. But even if there are those among my disciples who understand them, they fear the accusations of the times; believing that their lives, which are as frail as dew, are in fact to be relied upon, they backslide, keep their beliefs hidden in their hearts, or behave in other such ways."

"Therefore, no matter how I explain and try to persuade my own disciples, they still cannot seem to overcome their doubts, but behave like icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief. Therefore, I have quoted these passages of explanation from T’ien-t’ai, Miao-lo, and others in order to silence their ungrounded criticisms."

"You should read again and again the previous letter in which I explained that one should of course obey one’s teacher, sovereign, and parents, but should they commit wrongs, admonishing them is in fact being loyal to them."

"It has been twenty or more years now since I found myself in that situation and began the great battle. Not once have I thought of retreat. Among my disciples and followers, however, those who are cowards have for the most part either given in or retreated at heart."

"If you are of the same mind as Nichiren, you must be a Bodhisattva of the Earth. And if you are a Bodhisattva of the Earth, there is not the slightest doubt that you have been a disciple of Shakyamuni Buddha from the remote past."

Grand Master Miao-le was a man of the T'ien-pao Period toward the end of T'ang China. Having widely read and deeply contemplated canons of the San-lun (Sanron), Hua-yen (Kegon), Fa-hsiang (Hosso), and Chen-yen (Shingon) Schools, he concluded that those who do not know of the Original Buddha revealed in 'The Life Span of the Buddha' chapter are like 'beasts and birds, who may be talented but do not know of the land governed by the father. 'No matter how capable he may be' refers to men like Fa-ts'ang and Ch'eng-kuan of the Hua-yen (Kegon) School and Venerable Subhakarasimha (Shan-wu-wei) of the Chen-yen (Shingon) School, who were men of talent but, like children who do not know their father, did not know of the true and eternal Sakyamuni Buddha.

Today, sadly, these last are the men of the Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu.


The differences in Shoshu and SGI can be understood within the guidelines of the four reliance (standards). If one does not have the ability to explain them all as thus and then thusly dismiss all but the one true way there how can one claim to understand Nichiren OR Shakyamuni within one's own mind let alone within these teachings?

Would you like an opportunity to present your case as such, because out of deep gratitude for your dedication I will gladly do so if you are unable.

Also I am concerned because after our conversations I have not forgotten even on detail of your communications but here you conflate even my gender. How can one trust that a "teacher of the law" can see "end to end" past their own being when the realities they report are subject to perspective and not reality? Hopefully this is not the case and isn't a lasting facet of one's function.

Perhaps when you address my first question and actually explain the differences in perspectives within the schools from within the guidelines of the four standards one and all, the communication will be crystal clear without subjectivity. Then you can help show why the schools should transcend differences according to your superior interpretation of the one true way among them.

I welcome a teacher with the capacity to bring the schools together transcending all differences as Nichiren and Shakyamuni both required in the propagation of these teachings. I have established this though the Lotus and Nichiren's writings here before so I am not going to post references unless requested but gladly will in light of any doubts.

So nice to see you back, I hope this finds you well.

:anjali:
tkp67
Posts: 2057
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by tkp67 »

The TL:DR summation of the above is I very strongly suspect will be revealed if one can display mastery over the differences held by various Nichiren interests is that they point to the same meaning according to cause, condition and capacity.

Can anyone dismiss this through a mastery of these teachings through the auspices of the four standards?

If they could why haven't they done so as votary of the LS? Would Nichiren have neglected to do the same?
illarraza
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by illarraza »

Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:51 pm
Today, it is the various Nichiren sects and their followers who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the writings of Nichiren, yet who call themselves "Nichiren Buddhists" who are to be corrected . Sects such as the Soka Gakkai and the Nichiren Shu who practice interfaith rather than the exclusive faith and practice of the Lotus Sutra are examples of those who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the teachings of Nichiren.
i'm not really interested in gakkai anything ..they do their thing and it brings in millions...eventually like you and me we learn better.

So ilarraza I'm still independent and chant with , for it is hard for me to chant to anything outside of me...an image of the Shutai gohonzon on my imac...due to the fact i have given back two Gohonzons...

But I met a Nichiren Shu priest at a funeral when i turned to a stint in christianity for the first time in my life about 10 years ago..So during his service i did not chant...egads...and blessed myself with the Christian thing after He finished...very cool funeral by the way...he had this flint thing and made sparks and stuff...

long story as to why the backslide into the nether regions of religious paradigms.

Thing was it was too weird for this person to show up in my life...i chatted with him after the funeral...told him about my Nichiren sects i belonged to and stuff that happened in my life with the Gakkai such as curing my father of dead bone marrow and no longer lived on blood transfusions....

anyway this guy had some power other than his ego and like i really got a blast of something , an impetus to retrieve my practice...

it's been a bounce back and off again thing.

But i'm back...daily practice of my own making...I do a full three piece gongyo ...first i offer to all the Buddhist Gods and dharma protectors my recital of the Lotus Sutra and about a 15 minute chant session ...So Lord Shiva , Lord Agni , Lord Ganesha , Lord Brahma and Lord Indra whom are inscribed on Gohonzon, Lord Vishnu ,Lord Hanuman , Lord Krisna , Lady Lakshmi , Lady Saraswati , Buddha Goddess Tara , Lady Kahlika . Lady Kundalini Lady Durga,
and the four kings and all others i am unaware of...

So then after 15 minutes of chanting i do another 3 piece gongyo and offer this to the 3 treasures .. Lord Sakyamuni Buddha and His dharma ( hate using His) The Eternal Buddha MyoHo RenGe Kyo and the sangha...the sangha spanning the three time periods , anyone trying their hand at any form of Buddhism...they all get my efforts during the 15 minute chant thing ..
Then i read this ..

We respectfully dedicate all our merits now gathered to the Great Benevolent Teacher, Shakyamuni, the Eternal Buddha; to the Supreme Teaching, the Lotus Sutra; to the Leader of the Declining Latter Age of the Dharma, our founder, the Great Bodhisattva Nichiren Shonin; and to the benevolent forces of the universe who protect the Dharma!

May the Wonderful Dharma spread throughout the Ten Thousand Years of the Declining Latter Age of the Dharma!

May we realize this world is the Eternal Buddha's Pure Land!

May all beings under the heavens and within the four seas live in accordance with the Wonderful Dharma!

May peace permeate all the world and all beings enjoy peace and happiness!

May all beings live in safety and live long without misfortune!

May this peace and happiness last forever and all beings prosper! We pray that all beings awaken to the true nature of reality which is the Buddha Dharma!

May all beings of all realms be helped equally, overcome suffering, and gain the happiness of blissful liberation through the merits of following the teaching of the Lotus Sutra!

We pray for our ancestors, deceased relatives, and for all those who have passed away [especially for_________________]!

May we purify our minds, limit our desires, learn to be content, feel free to experience the quiet unassuming joys of life, and learn to abandon all attachments formed in the mind!

With this prayer, we endeavor to increase our understanding and appreciation of what others have given and contributed to us, and to develop constant, mindful consideration of how our thoughts and actions will beneficially contribute to others!
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo

Do a full 3 piece gongyo and chant for at least another 30 minutes for this prayer...


So i want to be a Nichiren shu guy so i can make a bustudan and enshrine a Shutei gohonzon...thats the one inscribed by Saint Nichiren and was at His bedside at Minobu...it has a stray mistake mark on it...which gives me pleasure...it reminds me of Persian rugs where they always make one mistake in them because to them only God is perfect...anything man made is not...


so why are you saying...
Nichiren Shu who practice interfaith[
also what are your thoughts on foot massage therapy , yoga and meditation...do you feel these are slanderous to what you seem to be worried about...
In 1995, my wife was dying. she was so ill, my 8 year old daughter had to feed her in bed. We were Soka Gakkai. Shortly after we left the Soka Gakkai. I went to see a young Nichiren Shu priest for guidance at a hotel in Manhattan. He spoke fairly good English. After I told him our experience, he looked like a deer in headlights. He didn't know what to say. Fortunately, soon after, I met Reverend Kubota of the Kempon Hokke. He was 80 years old. I told him that my wife was dying with so many medical problems including cirrhosis, diabetes, asthma and she continued to drink. He smiled and said, "not a problem". He then recounted his experience of being in the hospital for one year as a teen. He was on the verge of death with the most severe type of tuberculosis. He prayed to the Gohonzon, Shakyamuni Buddha, and Nichiren Daishonin every day and here he was, an 80 year old priest with a twinkle in his eye. He then said, "with correct doctrine and Gohonzon, what illness can be an obstacle." At that moment I converted to the Kempon Hokke. My wife is alive and well today. Rev. Kubota died not too long ago at the ripe old age of 100. Kathy Ruby of the Ikeda sect stated. "and he (Kubota) wiped his grimy fingers all over the Gohonzon." I digress. True, I am no longer Kempon Hokke Japan but i remain a follower of Nichiju the founder of the Kempon Hokke and Nikkyo the martyr. They, as I, were ultimately followers of Shakyamuni Buddha of the Juryo Chapter of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin. Quite a lineage!

What I am getting at is, without a correct doctrine, faith, and practice, it is impossible to help others safely cross over the great ocean of life and death. The one who elucidates and exemplifies such a faith, practice, and doctrine is none other than Nichiren Daishonin.
illarraza
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:24 pm
illarraza wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:19 am
tkp67 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:35 pm

The Opening of the Eyes

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... Part%20Two
I would like to place this sentence in context, this is going to be long...

One may conclude from tpk67's other writings that she is declaring that those who chant Nam(u) myoho renge kyo should not dispute with others.

Since tpk66 neglects to place this passage in context with the preceding passage, the three following passages, and the entire canon of Nichiren, one might agree with this shallow understanding. First, here are the preceding and following passages with the passage that tpk67 chose:

"The non-Buddhist schools of such men as Vatsa and Vaipulya, which appeared in India after the Buddha’s passing, are even more wrong in their views and more cunning in their doctrines than their counterparts before the Buddha [because they borrowed ideas from Buddhism]. Similarly, since the introduction of Buddhism to China in the Later Han dynasty, non-Buddhist views and writings have become even more wrong and cunning than the pre-Buddhist writings of Confucianism that deal with the Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors of antiquity. Also the teachers of the Flower Garland, Dharma Characteristics, True Word, and other schools, jealous of the correct doctrines of the T’ien-t’ai school, brazenly interpret the words of the true sutra in such a way that they will accord with the provisional teachings.

Those who seek the way, however, should reject such one-sided views, transcending disputes between one’s own school and others, and should not treat others with contempt.

In the Lotus Sutra the Buddha says, “Among the sutras I have preached, now preach, and will preach [this Lotus Sutra is the most difficult to believe and the most difficult to understand].”

"Miao-lo remarks: “Though other sutras may call themselves the king among sutras, there is none that announces itself as foremost among all the sutras preached in the past, now being preached, or to be preached in the future.” He also says: “Concerning [the Buddha’s statement] that this wonderful sutra surpasses all those of past, present, and future, there are those who persist in going astray. Thus they commit the grave fault of slandering the sutra and for many long kalpas are subjected to sufferings.”

Startled by these passages in the sutra and its commentaries, I examined the entire body of sutras and the expositions and commentaries of the various teachers, and found that my doubts and suspicions melted away. But now those foolish True Word priests rely upon their mudras and mantras and believe that the True Word school is superior to the Lotus Sutra, simply because the Great Teacher Jikaku and their other teachers have assured them that the True Word is superior. Their views are not worthy of discussion."

Here is a better translation of these passages by Kyotsu Hori (with the passage in question italicized:

"Now, as for the assessments of the sutras by the founding fathers of the four Buddhist schools, heir judgments seem to conform, more or less, to sutras and their commentaries. However, they all seem to stick to the teaching of their own schools without correcting the errors of their own teachers. Their opinions are formed from egotism and distorted interpretations of sutras. It is self decorated egocentricity! Men of Vatsiputra and Vaipula Schools, after the death of the Buddha, were stronger in theology than Brahamanism before the rise of Buddhism in India. Confucianism since the Later han, when Buddhism was introduced to China, became more intricate than Confucianism in the time of the Three Emperors and Five Rulers, when Buddhism was unknown in China. In the same way, teachers of such schools as Kegon, Hosso, and Shingon, envious of T'ien-t'ai's true teaching, tend to resort to distorted interpretations of the true Lotus Sutra in order to fit it into their provisional teachings. Surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased, stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people.

It is said in the Lotus that among the sutras which had already been preached, are now being preached, and will be preached, the Lotus Sutra is supreme. Commenting on this, Grand Master Miao-le states,: 'Besides the Lotus Sutra, some sutras claim to be the king of sutras, but they are not really the first among sutras as they do not claim to be one among those which have already been preached, are being preached, and will be preached.' He also asserts, 'Although the Lotus Sutra is incomparable dharma above all the scriptures preached in the past, present, and future, many are confused about this, and they will suffer for ever from slandering the true dharma."

One might conclude that Nichiren was a hypocrite. He just harshly remonstrated with the four Buddhist schools, labeling their teachers with "self-decorated egocentricity", and concluding, "surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased, stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people."

In the entire canon of Nichiren, Nichiren wrote more than three thousand references to the errors of the various schools of Buddhism, their adherents, and the non-Buddhists. Furthermore, he wrote dozens of criticisms towards his own disciples who chanted Namu Myoho renge kyo but who embraced the Lotus Sutra (incorrectly). Regarding "surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased": Yes, not biased towards the opinions of those founding the four Buddhist schools and only relying on the Sutras themselves (particularly the Lotus Sutra). Regarding, "stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people.": One need remember to whom this treatise was entrusted, the Samurai Shijo Kingo. The layman Shijo Kingo was not yet sufficiently knowledgeable to engage in sectarian quarrels. Lastly, regarding "not despising other people", no True Buddhist despises other people. Nichiren, for example stated,"My only hatred is for the act of slandering the Law." He went so far as to call the Japanese "Attorney General", Hei no Seamon who tried to kill him, "my best friend in the world."(because it is thanks to one's enemies that one can attain Buddhahood).

Nichiren taught his disciples not to believe even those who claim to be his followers unless they have some proof of it in his own hand. The proof today is the Lotus Sutra and his authentic writings, believing and upholding them.

Today, it is the various Nichiren sects and their followers who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the writings of Nichiren, yet who call themselves "Nichiren Buddhists" who are to be corrected . Sects such as the Soka Gakkai and the Nichiren Shu who practice interfaith rather than the exclusive faith and practice of the Lotus Sutra are examples of those who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the teachings of Nichiren.

Nichiren admonishes his errant disciples, even those who chant Namu Myoho renge kyo:

“Many such examples of slander are also found among Nichiren’s disciples and lay believers.”

“They entirely look up to groups of icchantikas and rely on them as leaders and, reverencing slanderers against the Dharma, make them national teachers. Taking up the Classic Filial Piety of Confucius, they beat their parents’ heads and, while chanting the Lotus Sutra of Lord Shakya with their mouths, they go against the Master of teachings.”

"You also mentioned in your letter that the people connected with Ōta Jōmyō are apparently saying that the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra can in no way lead to enlightenment. They are making a serious mistake. Remember this about the theoretical and essential teachings of the Lotus Sutra: Which is shallow and which profound, which superior and which inferior, which lenient and which severe, and which subordinate and which primary must be judged in accordance with the time and the people’s capacity. There are three periods in which the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s lifetime should be propagated; the people’s capacity should be thought of in the same way."

and further down

"This doctrine concerning the theoretical and essential teachings is not my own [but was expounded by the Buddha]. Those who would distort it can only be possessed by the heavenly devil, or Pāpīyas, and will topple others along with themselves into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. How foolish they are! Teach this doctrine to others clearly as I have taught you these many years. Those who call themselves my disciples and practice the Lotus Sutra should all practice as I do."

"...Some of my disciples may be asking. “Does Nichiren really have an understanding superior to that of Jikaku and Chishō?”

"The noblest people in the present age are in no way superior to Shakra or the boy Snow Mountains, yet because of my low social position, they have rejected my wise words. That is why the country is now on the brink of ruin. How lamentable! And what I find even sadder is that I will be unable to save those disciples of mine who have pitied my sufferings."

"...Although my disciples had already heard this, when both great and small persecutions confronted us, some were so astounded and terrified that they even forsook their faith. Did I not warn you in advance?"

"...Faced with such criticisms, my disciples became quite downcast and complained that I had been too provocative in my attacks on the True Word school."

"To such a place, where friends from former times never come to visit, where I have been abandoned even by my own disciples..."

"It would seem that Nichiren’s disciples, after journeying to the capital, at first were careful not to forget their purpose, but later, led astray by the heavenly devil, they lost their senses completely. That is the way Sammi-bo was acting. You had better beware that you do not act the same way and incur the anger of heaven."

"Now I, Nichiren, understand these things because of what I myself have undergone. But even if there are those among my disciples who understand them, they fear the accusations of the times; believing that their lives, which are as frail as dew, are in fact to be relied upon, they backslide, keep their beliefs hidden in their hearts, or behave in other such ways."

"Therefore, no matter how I explain and try to persuade my own disciples, they still cannot seem to overcome their doubts, but behave like icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief. Therefore, I have quoted these passages of explanation from T’ien-t’ai, Miao-lo, and others in order to silence their ungrounded criticisms."

"You should read again and again the previous letter in which I explained that one should of course obey one’s teacher, sovereign, and parents, but should they commit wrongs, admonishing them is in fact being loyal to them."

"It has been twenty or more years now since I found myself in that situation and began the great battle. Not once have I thought of retreat. Among my disciples and followers, however, those who are cowards have for the most part either given in or retreated at heart."

"If you are of the same mind as Nichiren, you must be a Bodhisattva of the Earth. And if you are a Bodhisattva of the Earth, there is not the slightest doubt that you have been a disciple of Shakyamuni Buddha from the remote past."

Grand Master Miao-le was a man of the T'ien-pao Period toward the end of T'ang China. Having widely read and deeply contemplated canons of the San-lun (Sanron), Hua-yen (Kegon), Fa-hsiang (Hosso), and Chen-yen (Shingon) Schools, he concluded that those who do not know of the Original Buddha revealed in 'The Life Span of the Buddha' chapter are like 'beasts and birds, who may be talented but do not know of the land governed by the father. 'No matter how capable he may be' refers to men like Fa-ts'ang and Ch'eng-kuan of the Hua-yen (Kegon) School and Venerable Subhakarasimha (Shan-wu-wei) of the Chen-yen (Shingon) School, who were men of talent but, like children who do not know their father, did not know of the true and eternal Sakyamuni Buddha.

Today, sadly, these last are the men of the Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu.


The differences in Shoshu and SGI can be understood within the guidelines of the four reliance (standards). If one does not have the ability to explain them all as thus and then thusly dismiss all but the one true way there how can one claim to understand Nichiren OR Shakyamuni within one's own mind let alone within these teachings?

Would you like an opportunity to present your case as such, because out of deep gratitude for your dedication I will gladly do so if you are unable.

Also I am concerned because after our conversations I have not forgotten even on detail of your communications but here you conflate even my gender. How can one trust that a "teacher of the law" can see "end to end" past their own being when the realities they report are subject to perspective and not reality? Hopefully this is not the case and isn't a lasting facet of one's function.

Perhaps when you address my first question and actually explain the differences in perspectives within the schools from within the guidelines of the four standards one and all, the communication will be crystal clear without subjectivity. Then you can help show why the schools should transcend differences according to your superior interpretation of the one true way among them.

I welcome a teacher with the capacity to bring the schools together transcending all differences as Nichiren and Shakyamuni both required in the propagation of these teachings. I have established this though the Lotus and Nichiren's writings here before so I am not going to post references unless requested but gladly will in light of any doubts.

So nice to see you back, I hope this finds you well.

:anjali:
Thank you. First of all, before I talk about the Four Standards, the only ones I advocate to follow are the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha (Lotus Sutra/Gohonzon) and Nichiren Daishonin and that the transmission or Succession is only Through the Scrolls of the Lotus Sutra (including Gohonzon and writings of Nichiren Daishonin). I would be ashamed if anyone took me as their teacher.

For example, Nichiren teaches:

"The transmission section has two parts. The first is that of the theoretical teaching and consists of the five chapters beginning with the “Teacher of the Law” chapter. The second is that of the essential teaching and consists of the latter part of the “Distinctions in Benefits” chapter through the eleven chapters that comprise the remainder of the sutra. The five chapters from the theoretical teaching and the eleven and a half chapters from the essential teaching combine to make sixteen and a half chapters, and in these it is clearly explained how one should practice the Lotus Sutra in the Latter Day of the Law. If this is not convincing enough, then further examining the matter in light of the Universal Worthy and Nirvana sutras will surely leave no doubt." - The Four Stages of Faith and the Five Stages of Practice

Nichiren teaches in Reply to Hoshina Goro Taro:

"Question: How can we discern the error of distorted views? Although I am not wise enough, I am nevertheless anxious about my next life and have resolved to seek the Buddhist teachings to the best of my ability. Therefore, I wish to know this standard of evaluation by all means. Should it be that I am adhering to distorted views, I will reflect on them and turn to the correct view.

Answer: It can be neither discerned with our physical eyes nor perceived with our shallow wisdom. We should use the sutras as our eyes and give precedence to the wisdom of the Buddha. Surely, however, if this standard is made clear, people will become enraged and be filled with resentment. Let them do as they will. What matters most is that we honor the Buddha’s words. As a rule, people in the world value what is p.156distant and despise what is near, but this is the conduct of the ignorant. Even the distant should be repudiated if it is wrong, while what is near should not be discarded if it accords with the truth. Even though people may revere [their predecessors’ doctrines], if those doctrines are in error, how can we employ them today?

and further on in the same writing:

"Thus the Buddha himself concluded that one’s practice accords with the Buddha’s teachings only when one bases one’s faith firmly on the standard of these SUTRA passages, believing fully that “there is only the Law of the one vehicle.”

How can we know how to practice without, at least, a general knowledge of the Lotus Sutra and at least, the 16 Chapters Nichiren mentions above?

"In judging the relative merit of Buddhist doctrines, I, Nichiren, believe that the best standards are those of reason and documentary proof. And even more valuable than reason and documentary proof is the proof of actual fact." - Three Tripitaka Masters Pray for Rain

Nichiren's life and practice IS the proof of actual fact.

"In Buddhism, that teaching is judged supreme that enables all people, whether good or evil, to become Buddhas. Surely anyone can grasp so reasonable a standard. By means of this principle, we can compare the various sutras and ascertain which is superior. The Lotus Sutra reveals that even the people of the two vehicles can attain enlightenment, but the True Word sutras do not. Rather, they categorically deny it. The Lotus Sutra teaches that women are capable of attaining Buddhahood, but p.157the True Word sutras make no mention of this at all. In the Lotus Sutra, it is written that evil people can attain enlightenment, but in the True Word sutras there is nothing about this. How can one say that the True Word sutras are superior to the Lotus Sutra?"

The Four Standards:

(1) to rely on the Law and not upon persons;

That is why I rely on the Lotus Sutra and not the Human Revolution or the pronouncements of priests or laymen who do not rely on the Sutra and the writings of Nichiren.

(2) to rely on the meaning of the teaching and not upon the words;

The meaning of the teaching according to Nichiren Daishonin is Namu myoh renge kyo

(3) to rely on wisdom and not upon discriminative thinking;

Prajna paramita too is Namu Myoho renge kyo and it is also Buddha wisdom

(4) to rely on sutras that are complete and final and not upon those that are not complete and final.

The Lotus and Nirvana Sutras are just such Sutras
illarraza
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: The Writings of Nichiren

Post by illarraza »

illarraza wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:30 am
tkp67 wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:24 pm
illarraza wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:19 am

I would like to place this sentence in context, this is going to be long...

One may conclude from tpk67's other writings that she is declaring that those who chant Nam(u) myoho renge kyo should not dispute with others.

Since tpk66 neglects to place this passage in context with the preceding passage, the three following passages, and the entire canon of Nichiren, one might agree with this shallow understanding. First, here are the preceding and following passages with the passage that tpk67 chose:

"The non-Buddhist schools of such men as Vatsa and Vaipulya, which appeared in India after the Buddha’s passing, are even more wrong in their views and more cunning in their doctrines than their counterparts before the Buddha [because they borrowed ideas from Buddhism]. Similarly, since the introduction of Buddhism to China in the Later Han dynasty, non-Buddhist views and writings have become even more wrong and cunning than the pre-Buddhist writings of Confucianism that deal with the Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors of antiquity. Also the teachers of the Flower Garland, Dharma Characteristics, True Word, and other schools, jealous of the correct doctrines of the T’ien-t’ai school, brazenly interpret the words of the true sutra in such a way that they will accord with the provisional teachings.

Those who seek the way, however, should reject such one-sided views, transcending disputes between one’s own school and others, and should not treat others with contempt.

In the Lotus Sutra the Buddha says, “Among the sutras I have preached, now preach, and will preach [this Lotus Sutra is the most difficult to believe and the most difficult to understand].”

"Miao-lo remarks: “Though other sutras may call themselves the king among sutras, there is none that announces itself as foremost among all the sutras preached in the past, now being preached, or to be preached in the future.” He also says: “Concerning [the Buddha’s statement] that this wonderful sutra surpasses all those of past, present, and future, there are those who persist in going astray. Thus they commit the grave fault of slandering the sutra and for many long kalpas are subjected to sufferings.”

Startled by these passages in the sutra and its commentaries, I examined the entire body of sutras and the expositions and commentaries of the various teachers, and found that my doubts and suspicions melted away. But now those foolish True Word priests rely upon their mudras and mantras and believe that the True Word school is superior to the Lotus Sutra, simply because the Great Teacher Jikaku and their other teachers have assured them that the True Word is superior. Their views are not worthy of discussion."

Here is a better translation of these passages by Kyotsu Hori (with the passage in question italicized:

"Now, as for the assessments of the sutras by the founding fathers of the four Buddhist schools, heir judgments seem to conform, more or less, to sutras and their commentaries. However, they all seem to stick to the teaching of their own schools without correcting the errors of their own teachers. Their opinions are formed from egotism and distorted interpretations of sutras. It is self decorated egocentricity! Men of Vatsiputra and Vaipula Schools, after the death of the Buddha, were stronger in theology than Brahamanism before the rise of Buddhism in India. Confucianism since the Later han, when Buddhism was introduced to China, became more intricate than Confucianism in the time of the Three Emperors and Five Rulers, when Buddhism was unknown in China. In the same way, teachers of such schools as Kegon, Hosso, and Shingon, envious of T'ien-t'ai's true teaching, tend to resort to distorted interpretations of the true Lotus Sutra in order to fit it into their provisional teachings. Surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased, stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people.

It is said in the Lotus that among the sutras which had already been preached, are now being preached, and will be preached, the Lotus Sutra is supreme. Commenting on this, Grand Master Miao-le states,: 'Besides the Lotus Sutra, some sutras claim to be the king of sutras, but they are not really the first among sutras as they do not claim to be one among those which have already been preached, are being preached, and will be preached.' He also asserts, 'Although the Lotus Sutra is incomparable dharma above all the scriptures preached in the past, present, and future, many are confused about this, and they will suffer for ever from slandering the true dharma."

One might conclude that Nichiren was a hypocrite. He just harshly remonstrated with the four Buddhist schools, labeling their teachers with "self-decorated egocentricity", and concluding, "surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased, stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people."

In the entire canon of Nichiren, Nichiren wrote more than three thousand references to the errors of the various schools of Buddhism, their adherents, and the non-Buddhists. Furthermore, he wrote dozens of criticisms towards his own disciples who chanted Namu Myoho renge kyo but who embraced the Lotus Sutra (incorrectly). Regarding "surely, those who aspire to enlightenment should not be biased": Yes, not biased towards the opinions of those founding the four Buddhist schools and only relying on the Sutras themselves (particularly the Lotus Sutra). Regarding, "stay away from sectarian quarrels and not despise other people.": One need remember to whom this treatise was entrusted, the Samurai Shijo Kingo. The layman Shijo Kingo was not yet sufficiently knowledgeable to engage in sectarian quarrels. Lastly, regarding "not despising other people", no True Buddhist despises other people. Nichiren, for example stated,"My only hatred is for the act of slandering the Law." He went so far as to call the Japanese "Attorney General", Hei no Seamon who tried to kill him, "my best friend in the world."(because it is thanks to one's enemies that one can attain Buddhahood).

Nichiren taught his disciples not to believe even those who claim to be his followers unless they have some proof of it in his own hand. The proof today is the Lotus Sutra and his authentic writings, believing and upholding them.

Today, it is the various Nichiren sects and their followers who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the writings of Nichiren, yet who call themselves "Nichiren Buddhists" who are to be corrected . Sects such as the Soka Gakkai and the Nichiren Shu who practice interfaith rather than the exclusive faith and practice of the Lotus Sutra are examples of those who fail to uphold the Lotus Sutra and the teachings of Nichiren.

Nichiren admonishes his errant disciples, even those who chant Namu Myoho renge kyo:

“Many such examples of slander are also found among Nichiren’s disciples and lay believers.”

“They entirely look up to groups of icchantikas and rely on them as leaders and, reverencing slanderers against the Dharma, make them national teachers. Taking up the Classic Filial Piety of Confucius, they beat their parents’ heads and, while chanting the Lotus Sutra of Lord Shakya with their mouths, they go against the Master of teachings.”

"You also mentioned in your letter that the people connected with Ōta Jōmyō are apparently saying that the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra can in no way lead to enlightenment. They are making a serious mistake. Remember this about the theoretical and essential teachings of the Lotus Sutra: Which is shallow and which profound, which superior and which inferior, which lenient and which severe, and which subordinate and which primary must be judged in accordance with the time and the people’s capacity. There are three periods in which the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s lifetime should be propagated; the people’s capacity should be thought of in the same way."

and further down

"This doctrine concerning the theoretical and essential teachings is not my own [but was expounded by the Buddha]. Those who would distort it can only be possessed by the heavenly devil, or Pāpīyas, and will topple others along with themselves into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. How foolish they are! Teach this doctrine to others clearly as I have taught you these many years. Those who call themselves my disciples and practice the Lotus Sutra should all practice as I do."

"...Some of my disciples may be asking. “Does Nichiren really have an understanding superior to that of Jikaku and Chishō?”

"The noblest people in the present age are in no way superior to Shakra or the boy Snow Mountains, yet because of my low social position, they have rejected my wise words. That is why the country is now on the brink of ruin. How lamentable! And what I find even sadder is that I will be unable to save those disciples of mine who have pitied my sufferings."

"...Although my disciples had already heard this, when both great and small persecutions confronted us, some were so astounded and terrified that they even forsook their faith. Did I not warn you in advance?"

"...Faced with such criticisms, my disciples became quite downcast and complained that I had been too provocative in my attacks on the True Word school."

"To such a place, where friends from former times never come to visit, where I have been abandoned even by my own disciples..."

"It would seem that Nichiren’s disciples, after journeying to the capital, at first were careful not to forget their purpose, but later, led astray by the heavenly devil, they lost their senses completely. That is the way Sammi-bo was acting. You had better beware that you do not act the same way and incur the anger of heaven."

"Now I, Nichiren, understand these things because of what I myself have undergone. But even if there are those among my disciples who understand them, they fear the accusations of the times; believing that their lives, which are as frail as dew, are in fact to be relied upon, they backslide, keep their beliefs hidden in their hearts, or behave in other such ways."

"Therefore, no matter how I explain and try to persuade my own disciples, they still cannot seem to overcome their doubts, but behave like icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief. Therefore, I have quoted these passages of explanation from T’ien-t’ai, Miao-lo, and others in order to silence their ungrounded criticisms."

"You should read again and again the previous letter in which I explained that one should of course obey one’s teacher, sovereign, and parents, but should they commit wrongs, admonishing them is in fact being loyal to them."

"It has been twenty or more years now since I found myself in that situation and began the great battle. Not once have I thought of retreat. Among my disciples and followers, however, those who are cowards have for the most part either given in or retreated at heart."

"If you are of the same mind as Nichiren, you must be a Bodhisattva of the Earth. And if you are a Bodhisattva of the Earth, there is not the slightest doubt that you have been a disciple of Shakyamuni Buddha from the remote past."

Grand Master Miao-le was a man of the T'ien-pao Period toward the end of T'ang China. Having widely read and deeply contemplated canons of the San-lun (Sanron), Hua-yen (Kegon), Fa-hsiang (Hosso), and Chen-yen (Shingon) Schools, he concluded that those who do not know of the Original Buddha revealed in 'The Life Span of the Buddha' chapter are like 'beasts and birds, who may be talented but do not know of the land governed by the father. 'No matter how capable he may be' refers to men like Fa-ts'ang and Ch'eng-kuan of the Hua-yen (Kegon) School and Venerable Subhakarasimha (Shan-wu-wei) of the Chen-yen (Shingon) School, who were men of talent but, like children who do not know their father, did not know of the true and eternal Sakyamuni Buddha.

Today, sadly, these last are the men of the Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu.


The differences in Shoshu and SGI can be understood within the guidelines of the four reliance (standards). If one does not have the ability to explain them all as thus and then thusly dismiss all but the one true way there how can one claim to understand Nichiren OR Shakyamuni within one's own mind let alone within these teachings?

Would you like an opportunity to present your case as such, because out of deep gratitude for your dedication I will gladly do so if you are unable.

Also I am concerned because after our conversations I have not forgotten even on detail of your communications but here you conflate even my gender. How can one trust that a "teacher of the law" can see "end to end" past their own being when the realities they report are subject to perspective and not reality? Hopefully this is not the case and isn't a lasting facet of one's function.

Perhaps when you address my first question and actually explain the differences in perspectives within the schools from within the guidelines of the four standards one and all, the communication will be crystal clear without subjectivity. Then you can help show why the schools should transcend differences according to your superior interpretation of the one true way among them.

I welcome a teacher with the capacity to bring the schools together transcending all differences as Nichiren and Shakyamuni both required in the propagation of these teachings. I have established this though the Lotus and Nichiren's writings here before so I am not going to post references unless requested but gladly will in light of any doubts.

So nice to see you back, I hope this finds you well.

:anjali:
Thank you. First of all, before I talk about the Four Standards, the only ones I advocate to follow are the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha (Lotus Sutra/Gohonzon) and Nichiren Daishonin and that the transmission or Succession is only Through the Scrolls of the Lotus Sutra (including Gohonzon and writings of Nichiren Daishonin). I would be ashamed if anyone took me as their teacher.

For example, Nichiren teaches:

"The transmission section has two parts. The first is that of the theoretical teaching and consists of the five chapters beginning with the “Teacher of the Law” chapter. The second is that of the essential teaching and consists of the latter part of the “Distinctions in Benefits” chapter through the eleven chapters that comprise the remainder of the sutra. The five chapters from the theoretical teaching and the eleven and a half chapters from the essential teaching combine to make sixteen and a half chapters, and in these it is clearly explained how one should practice the Lotus Sutra in the Latter Day of the Law. If this is not convincing enough, then further examining the matter in light of the Universal Worthy and Nirvana sutras will surely leave no doubt." - The Four Stages of Faith and the Five Stages of Practice

Nichiren teaches in Reply to Hoshina Goro Taro:

"Question: How can we discern the error of distorted views? Although I am not wise enough, I am nevertheless anxious about my next life and have resolved to seek the Buddhist teachings to the best of my ability. Therefore, I wish to know this standard of evaluation by all means. Should it be that I am adhering to distorted views, I will reflect on them and turn to the correct view.

Answer: It can be neither discerned with our physical eyes nor perceived with our shallow wisdom. We should use the sutras as our eyes and give precedence to the wisdom of the Buddha. Surely, however, if this standard is made clear, people will become enraged and be filled with resentment. Let them do as they will. What matters most is that we honor the Buddha’s words. As a rule, people in the world value what is p.156distant and despise what is near, but this is the conduct of the ignorant. Even the distant should be repudiated if it is wrong, while what is near should not be discarded if it accords with the truth. Even though people may revere [their predecessors’ doctrines], if those doctrines are in error, how can we employ them today?

and further on in the same writing:

"Thus the Buddha himself concluded that one’s practice accords with the Buddha’s teachings only when one bases one’s faith firmly on the standard of these SUTRA passages, believing fully that “there is only the Law of the one vehicle.”

How can we know how to practice without, at least, a general knowledge of the Lotus Sutra and at least, the 16 Chapters Nichiren mentions above?

"In judging the relative merit of Buddhist doctrines, I, Nichiren, believe that the best standards are those of reason and documentary proof. And even more valuable than reason and documentary proof is the proof of actual fact." - Three Tripitaka Masters Pray for Rain

Nichiren's life and practice IS the proof of actual fact.

"In Buddhism, that teaching is judged supreme that enables all people, whether good or evil, to become Buddhas. Surely anyone can grasp so reasonable a standard. By means of this principle, we can compare the various sutras and ascertain which is superior. The Lotus Sutra reveals that even the people of the two vehicles can attain enlightenment, but the True Word sutras do not. Rather, they categorically deny it. The Lotus Sutra teaches that women are capable of attaining Buddhahood, but p.157the True Word sutras make no mention of this at all. In the Lotus Sutra, it is written that evil people can attain enlightenment, but in the True Word sutras there is nothing about this. How can one say that the True Word sutras are superior to the Lotus Sutra?"

The Four Standards:

(1) to rely on the Law and not upon persons;

That is why I rely on the Lotus Sutra and not the Human Revolution or the pronouncements of priests or laymen who do not rely on the Sutra and the writings of Nichiren.

(2) to rely on the meaning of the teaching and not upon the words;

The meaning of the teaching according to Nichiren Daishonin is Namu myoho renge kyo

(3) to rely on wisdom and not upon discriminative thinking;

Prajna paramita too is Namu Myoho renge kyo and it is also Buddha wisdom

(4) to rely on sutras that are complete and final and not upon those that are not complete and final.

The Lotus and Nirvana Sutras are just such Sutras
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