Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post Reply
illarraza
Posts: 852
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by illarraza »

Yesterday:

"Implicit in the March 16 ceremony was his [President Toda's] profound instruction that kosen-rufu must be carried out based solely on the Head Temple -- guidance which we must take deeply to heart. In this connection, the sixty-sixth high priest, Nittatsu Shonin, gave us guidance to the effect that the ceremony in which we common mortals come to the Head Temple and chant daimoku to the Dai-Gohonzon, which embodies the life of the Buddha of beginningless time, is the most fundamental one. I want you to understand that our March 16 Kosen-rufu Day may be considered one form of "kosen-rufu ceremony," which we carry out under the mercy of the high priest, who, as the great leader of kosen-rufu, directs us toward the Dai-Gohonzon." Daisaku Ikeda, Seikyo Times, March 1986, p. 10

"The concept of manifesting the Buddha nature inherent in an insentient image through the "eye opening ceremony," thus making it an object of worship, also applies to the Gohonzon..." Soka Gakkai MWND, Vol 4, 1994 revised edition.

"...the Gohonzons that we recieve are also the living flesh of the Original Buddha whose eyes have been opened according to the principles of the actual Ichinen Sanzen in the passages hidden in depths of the Juryo Chapter and the true attainment of Buddhahood by plants and trees. Why would this very Gohonzon not be the true aspect of the eye opening of wooden and painted images? This is absolutely not found in the heretical sects outside of Nichiren Shoshu, and is a profoundly secret doctrine which only Nichiren Shoshu possesses." Daisaku Ikeda Soka Gakkai Daibyaku Renge

"... the ceremony in which we common mortals come to the head temple and daimoku to the Dai-Gohonzon, which embodies the life of he Buddha of beginningless time, is the most fundamental one." Daisaku Ikeda, Seikyo Times, March 1986, p. 10

"From the time our predecessor Makiguchi sensei, the Gakkai has progressed according to the great spirit of not concerning ourselves in any way concerning the position of the High Priest. In the future as well, we will be consistent with this spirit. Those who violate this, even if they are top leaders, are to be immediately expelled. This has to be the spirit of believers." Daisaku Ikeda, Seikyo Shimbun, 1/29/56

Today:

Each and every one of Shakyamuini's words tells us that it was right for SGI to separate itself from the ruinous [High Priest] Nikken sect. The SGI is advancing straight along the "path to glory." The Nikken sect is sliding irrevocably down the "path to ruin." I want to make this perfectly clear to you all." Daisaku Ikeda, World Tribune, September 13, 1993

Yesterday:

"It's no good unless these three, an excellent Law, an excellent master and an excellent lay believer, are all present. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is of course the excellent Law. Furthermore, the High Priests are the only ones who have recieved the Daishonin's teachings, and as our masters, have transmitted to us the Daishonin's innermost enlightenment exactly as it is with nothing lacking during 64 transmissions. Therefore, when we worship the Dai-Gohonzon through the High Priest, benefits will definitely come our way." The Complete Writings Of Josei Toda, Vol. 4, p. 399

"We, ourselves, cannot produce the Gohonzon. Since it's the enlightened entity of Nichiren Daishonin, no one has the authority other than the successive high priests who have been the sole heirs to the heritage of the True Law. We take no part in this. Therefore, the objects of worship inscribed by those in the Butsuryu and Minobu factions [of the Nichiren Shu sect] are absolutely powerless. They are worthless because they are fake. In fact, they contain the power of evil spirits. That is why they are dangerous." Former SGI president, Josei Toda, Daibyaku Renge, 98, p. 98.

"Members of the Minobu school of the Nichiren sect chant daimoku. They have the Gosho Their recitation of the sutra also includes the Hoben and Juryo chapters. And, in the Shoshinkai, which consists of ex-priests of Nichiren Shoshu , and the portions of the sutra they recite and the daimoku that they chant are identical to the practice we observe. Though their religion may seem the same as ours, they lack the single, unbroken heritage of the law received directly from Nichiren Daishonin. If one's faith is not based on this line of inheritance, it is worthless to embrace any Gohonzon, for no benefit will be forthcoming. That is to say, "Without the lifeblood of faith, it would be useless to embrace the Lotus Sutra." " Daisaku Ikeda, Buddhism in Action, vol 3, p 254

"What we must keep in mind here is that concerning the Lifeblood there is the specific Lifeblood of the entity of the Law, and the general lifeblood of faith. We must clearly differentiate between the two. In short, the Lifeblood of the Entity of the Law, the very life of Nichiren Daishonin, who is the reincarnation of the Buddha of Absolute Freedom, is the ultimate Lifeblood, the most important matter concerning life and death. The entity of the law which reveals the life of the Daishonin in it's exact state, is the Dai-Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. That Lifeblood which is passed on and protected by the successive High Priests of the conferral of the Lifeblood of the Law recieved by only a single person." Daisaku Ikeda, Lectures on Nichiren Daishonin's Gosho, Vol. 30, p. 58

Today:

"... we must deeply understand that the heritage of the universal Law of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo can only be transmitted through organizations [SGI] joined in unity, based on faith in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism and the principle of the oneness of master and disciple." November 9, 1992 World Tribune

"Today the only true inheritor of the Daishonin's way of master and disciple is the Soka Gakkai. I declare this unequivocally. That's why the Soka Gakkai is so important. Without our organization, the True Law would be utterly lost. There would be no way to save humanity. That is why supporting and defending the Soka Gakkai are the same as defending and advancing the Daishonin's Buddhism." Daisaku Ikeda, World Tribune, September 14, 1992

Yesterday:

"The Dai-Gohonzon of the high sanctuary of true Buddhism at the Nichiren Shoshu head temple, Taiseki-ji, is the basis of all Gohonzons. The Gohonzon, which we are allowed to recieve so that we can pray in our own homes, can be inscribed only by one of the successive high priests who inherit the true lineage of Nichiren Shoshu." Daisaku Ikeda, Buddhism in Action, vol. 1, pg. 21

"It goes without saying that our Soka Gakkai is an organization of Nichiren Shoshu believers. Therefore, worshipping the Dai-Gohonzon and serving the high priest is the fundamental spirit of the Gakkai." Daisaku Ikeda, Inaugural address of president Ikeda, 1960

"The basis of Nichiren Shoshu is the Lifeblood recieved only by a single person. To faithfully follow the High Priest of the bequethal of the Lifeblood is the correct way for priests and laybelievers. If one is mistaken about this single point, then everything will become insane." Daisaku Ikeda, Discussing Kosen-rufu and Human Life, Vol. 3, p. 32

Today:

"Thus, Nichiren Daishonin teaches us to treat the SGI members who work for Kosenrufu with greater respect than anyone else, and we must seat them high above esteemed priests." Daisaku Ikeda, World Tribune, March 14, 1994

"The [High Priest] Nikken sect, claiming that the High Priest's inner enlightenment and the Gohonzon are "the two indivisible entities of the Object of Worship," is using the Gohonzon and estabishing the "High Priest creed." ibid.

Yesterday:

"Needless to say, the Dai-Gohonzon of the high sanctuary inscribed for all mankind is the most fundamental basis of the movement for the Nichiren Shoshu Soka Gakkai [they have since changed the name to SGI]. The Dai-Gohonzon has been preserved and handed down within Nichiren Shoshu from the founder, Nichiren Daishonin, to his successor, Nikko Shonin, and then to the third high priest, Nichimoku Shonin, up to the present 67th high priest, Nikken Shonin. I hope, therefore, that we will courageously dedicate ourselves to studying Nichiren Daishonin's teachings in order to deepen our faith and to propagation true Buddhism in each country or community, as we follow the high priest's guidance, and respect the traditions and doctrines of Nichiren Shoshu." Daisaku Ikeda, Buddhism in Action,' vol 1, p 33

"We conduct the third prayer to express our deepest appreciation to Nichiren Daishonin, the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law. In this third silent prayer, we also offer our gratitude to Nikko Shonin, the second high priest and the fouder of Taisekiji. Further, we offer our appreciation to the third high priest, Nichimoku Shonin, and all the successive high priests of Nichiren Shoshu, each of whom transmitted the heritage of the Law to the next. Presently, as you know, the 67th high priest, Nikken Shonin, has inherited the Law. Now he is the master of true Buddhism." Daisaku Ikeda, Buddhism in action, vol 1, p 107

"...we must protect and transmit the essence of the traditions and doctrines that have been continually protected for over 700 years, since the time of the Daishonin. I am concerned that unless we make this our basis, that no matter how much we temporarily increase in power, we would be unable to avoid the criticism of future generations that our Kosen-rufu was a sham." Daisaku Ikeda, Daibyaku Renge, No. 333, p. 13

"That which forms the basis of Nichiren Shoshu is the Lifeblood.With the Dai-Gohonzon as the basis, the successive High Priests alone recieve and inherit this Lifeblood, and preserve it eternally." Daisaku Ikeda, Discussing Kosen-rufu and Human Life, Vol. 3, p. 256

"The Great Pure Law of the Latter day of the Law is transmitted by the successive High Priests of the bequethal of the lifeblood of the Law recieved by only a single person, and they inscribe the Gohonzon for us believers from that standpoint." Daisaku Ikeda, Discussing Kosen-rufu and Human Life, Vol. 4, p. 6

Today:

"Furthermore, in light of the true meaning of the Daishonin's Buddhism, it is a great mistake to think that only the high priest is vested with authority regarding the Gohonzon merely because of his position and title. World Tribune, Sept. 13, 1993

"The faith of "not begruging one's life," life based on the Gohonzon ...such faith exists only in the Soka Gakkai. Only the Soka Gakkai possesses "action" aimed toward the goal of kosen-rufu, and correct "guidance" leading to happiness." Daisaku Ikeda, World Tribune, Jan. 17, 1994

Yesterday:

However, such criticisms [that the practice of Shakubuku is too harsh] were only based on the superficial understanding of common mortals which is incomparably inferior to the understanding of the original Buddha, Nichiren Daishonin. Rather than reprimanding them, Nichiren Daishonin describes the cowardice, timidity and ignorance of those disciples as "pitiful." Today, a similar situation has arisen. Faithless disciples criticized High Priest Nikken, who is the only legitimate inheritor of the Law as the "emissary" of the original Buddha, Nichiren Daishonin. Those who for whatever reasons criticize the high priest are traitors against the orthodox lineage of Nichiren Shoshu. Buddhism in Action, By Daisaku Ikeda, 1984 ed., pages 273-274

Today:

"Today, I would just like to point out that, if the priesthood is earnestly saying that, "to go against the high priest is slander," then they are only going to get caught in their own trap." Daisaku Ikeda, World Tribune, Jan. 17, 1994

Yesterday:

"The Dai-Gohonzon of the high sanctuary of true Buddhism at the Nichiren Shoshu head temple, Taiseki-ji, is the basis of all Gohonzons. The Gohonzon, which we are allowed to recieve so that we can pray in our own homes, can be inscribed only by one of the successive high priests who inherit the true lineage of Nichiren Shoshu." Daisaku Ikeda, Buddhism in Action, vol. 1, pg. 21

"Only the successive High Priests of the conferral of the Lifeblood of the Law inscribe the Gohonzons we recieve based upon the principle that he is an emanation of the Buddha." Daisaku Ikeda, Discussing Kosen-rufu and Human Life, Vol. 1, p. 112

Today:

"At the present time, the Soka Gakkai itself is the one and only group of united priests which receives and inherits the 'lifeblood of faith.'" (Seikyo Shinbun, 9/18/93)

"Lay believers who, among all the people in the world, embrace, believe in and practice the True Law...can also be said to be the treasure of the priest"

"The status of the successive High Priests is lower than that of the treasure of the priest.Lay believers who are disciples of the Daishonin individually represent the treasure of the priest"

"It can be said that the priests and lay believers all individually represent the treasure of the priest" Speech by Soka Gakkai DIkeda World Fibune, Sept. 30, 1991

"Now that we have clearly separated ourselves from Nichiren Shoshu, let us firmly establish a religion for human beings..." Daisaku Ikeda, Sept. 1993 Daibyaku Renge (SGI)

"From the time our predecessor Makiguchi sensei, the Gakkai has progressed according to the great spirit of not concerning ourselves in any way concerning the position of the High Priest. In the future as well, we will be consistent with this spirit. Those who violate this, even if they are top leaders, are to be immediately expelled. This has to be the spirit of believers." Daisaku Ikeda Explains Why He Was Expelled, Seikyo Shimbun, 1/29/56
tkp67
Posts: 2068
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by tkp67 »

isn't today 3/22/2020?
romysan
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:00 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by romysan »

yes...i was stuck in the sgi cult for many years....until i started studying buddhism and realized they had hijacked the religion for selfish , greedy gain. so glad i left and decided to follow nichiren..namu myth range kyo ! thanks illaraza.
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3229
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by Minobu »

romysan wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:11 am decided to follow nichiren..namu myth range kyo
ok
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3229
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by Minobu »

awesome work illarraza

thanks for that...

the post reads like an essay on the political schemes of a religious leader.

I'm truly amazed at seeing how this scenario played out over time..

needs to be seen illarraza , thanks for all the effort.
illarraza
Posts: 852
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:33 am isn't today 3/22/2020?
True true. They have rewritten their history and doctrine so many times.

DOMINATING TRADITION: SOKA GAKKAI AND THE CREATION OF HISTORY by Levi McLaughlin
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/ ... Q45445.pdf
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3229
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by Minobu »

illarraza wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:05 pm
tkp67 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:33 am isn't today 3/22/2020?
True true. They have rewritten their history and doctrine so many times.

DOMINATING TRADITION: SOKA GAKKAI AND THE CREATION OF HISTORY by Levi McLaughlin
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/ ... Q45445.pdf
friggin wow...a thesis on it...

man the stuff you bring to the forefront...history will show you as a person as well informed , and gives facts not personal narratives.

p.s. check your pm please for revised pm please.
narhwal90
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by narhwal90 »

It sure would be nice to see some material on this topic thats not 20+ years old. That said I think its a fairly accurate summary of the seamy underside of Soka Gakki and NSA as it was 30 years ago. Believe it or not the same 30yr old Human Revolution story continues to be retold today in SGI- its worn pretty thin at this point. I'm looking forward to the post-Ikeda SGI, right now things are in a sort-of stasis.
User avatar
Bois de Santal
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:01 am
Location: La Manche

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by Bois de Santal »

I must admit that I found it strange that the thesis by Levi McLaughlin stopped before the schism, even though it appears to have been published about 10 years later. That doesn't undermine the thesis but as you say, but we are talking about history now. The past, as they say, really is another country. And so much has happened in the last thirty years. Remember when taking a plane was like catching a bus?

I haven't had any direct contact with the SGI in that time, so I can't comment at all on how it is now. I don't have any plans to rejoin either but I'd rather let all the facts speak for themselves, rather than, say, just cut everything off at around 1988 and pretend that nothing has changed since.

Has no-one done any studies post-schism?
tkp67
Posts: 2068
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by tkp67 »

illarraza wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:05 pm
tkp67 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:33 am isn't today 3/22/2020?
True true. They have rewritten their history and doctrine so many times.

DOMINATING TRADITION: SOKA GAKKAI AND THE CREATION OF HISTORY by Levi McLaughlin
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/ ... Q45445.pdf
You have established this many times over.
But if after the Buddha has entered extinction, in that evil world of the latter age, one can preach the Lotus Sutra just

as it teaches
, that will be difficult.
Have you qualified that every person who encounters the SGI denies the sutra? You admonish past acts, but what about offering the Lotus Sutra (an uncontested translation from what I understand) online for free. If the source is intact why doubt the transcendental powers of the Buddha? If they propagate the sutra, even if there is evil in the origination, how does that disqualify them from it? It is meant for all sentient beings including evil persons. The Devadetta chapter is essential here as is the one mind doctrine.

Is it unfair to say even you went through an evolution of sorts in regards to your own practice. There are many independents who have experience with the SGI and some who have not but have relied on their offering of writings and sutra. They don't appear overly enamored with the SGI but are loyal to the sutra none the less.

Reality as it is today reveals cause and effect that can't condemn them outright. Combined with the teachings of both Nichren and the Lotus that discuss practicing with one mind I don't understand why you continue to Shakubuku the SGI.

Is there not enough cause in the world already?


edit: fixed quote formatting
illarraza
Posts: 852
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:09 am
illarraza wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:05 pm
tkp67 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:33 am isn't today 3/22/2020?
True true. They have rewritten their history and doctrine so many times.

DOMINATING TRADITION: SOKA GAKKAI AND THE CREATION OF HISTORY by Levi McLaughlin
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/ ... Q45445.pdf
You have established this many times over.
But if after the Buddha has entered extinction, in that evil world of the latter age, one can preach the Lotus Sutra just

as it teaches
, that will be difficult.
Have you qualified that every person who encounters the SGI denies the sutra? You admonish past acts, but what about offering the Lotus Sutra (an uncontested translation from what I understand) online for free. If the source is intact why doubt the transcendental powers of the Buddha? If they propagate the sutra, even if there is evil in the origination, how does that disqualify them from it? It is meant for all sentient beings including evil persons. The Devadetta chapter is essential here as is the one mind doctrine.

Is it unfair to say even you went through an evolution of sorts in regards to your own practice. There are many independents who have experience with the SGI and some who have not but have relied on their offering of writings and sutra. They don't appear overly enamored with the SGI but are loyal to the sutra none the less.

Reality as it is today reveals cause and effect that can't condemn them outright. Combined with the teachings of both Nichren and the Lotus that discuss practicing with one mind I don't understand why you continue to Shakubuku the SGI.

Is there not enough cause in the world already?


edit: fixed quote formatting
"Have you qualified that every person who encounters the SGI denies the sutra?"

No. Only ~560.000 out of the ~600,000 who encountered the "Lotus Sutra" and were bestowed Gohonzon through the Soka Gakkai in the United States (~ 90%). Had they received what they were promised by their sponsors and leaders, were they actually taught the Lotus Sutra and writings of Nichiren, instead of the Human Revolution and writings of Daisaku Ikeda, and were they treated like bodhisattvas and potential Buddhas, do you think the Soka Gakkai would have such a poor retention rate? SGI-Buddha? Hardly.

The Rissho Koseikai, The Buddhist Translation Society, and others, also offer the Lotus Sutra free online. It was computer master Will Kallender who, for free, reproduced the agenda laden Nichiren Library online. Some state, "How dare you, you hate the Soka Gakkai yet you use extensively their Nichiren library." First of all, I don't hate anyone. Soka Gakkai are my best friends in the entire world as Hei-no-seimon was Nichiren's best friend. Secondly, like a Judo master, I utilize their strengths (the Nichiren Library) to throw and defeat them. If I had three hundred billion dollars or more, I would have the finest translation of the Showa Tehon Gosho Collection online. For a reasonable price, one can get a more accurate translation of the writings of Nichiren from the Nichiren Shu but yes, they should have their for free on line. Through JSTOR, also for a nominal fee, you can find other translations of Gosho. Jacqueline Stone, The Japanese Journal of Religious Studies, and the translations of Martin Bradley are free online.

I have written you many dozens of reasons why I shakubuku the Soka Gakkai. As Nichiren teaches, It is not the fault of the excellent road builder if the traveler goes astray.

Mark
mansurhirbi87
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:14 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by mansurhirbi87 »

Years ago Gakkai emphasis on what they use to call actual proof that was usually related to material benefits was something that disturbed me.
Another feature is that they consider Ikeda as the great master, i don't see it as a great problem. I don't see they treat him as a divinity. Perhaps the simple people do.
The problem i see in Gakkai is that they don't study others buddhist texts, mainly Tiantai ones and study mainly "Ikeda's orientations" or from others leaders. With it they will loose their buddhist rootsand philosophy with time.

We cannot forget that they were the responsible by bring Nichiren buddhism to the west and present nichiren buddhism as somenthing with union with society , as a way to change it too.
tkp67
Posts: 2068
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by tkp67 »

Years ago Gakkai emphasis on what they use to call actual proof that was usually related to material benefits was something that disturbed me.
Another feature is that they consider Ikeda as the great master, i don't see it as a great problem. I don't see they treat him as a divinity. Perhaps the simple people do.
I am so far from simple that this resonates with me. Years have given me a different outlook on some things. The following thoughts come to mind.

Perhaps simple people should be defined as lacking in conditions, capacity and cause but not in terms of redeemable sentient potential.

Perhaps those at a stage where they lack across the board they require outside agency to attach their mind onto as "compass" to escape the very lack they are confined by.

This is to say that the problem may not be as much as a problem as it is a sign of where there person is in regards to development and capacity.

I felt the same way as you did and it powerfully effected my decisions. Now I wonder if it wasn't my own lack to compassionately understand the needs of minds that differ from mine. Perhaps they where more passionate and committed even if they lacked what I saw as clarity. Maybe they where as clear as they could be and it was my obfuscation to appreciate it. :shrug:
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3229
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by Minobu »

mansurhirbi87 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:58 pm Years ago Gakkai emphasis on what they use to call actual proof that was usually related to material benefits was something that disturbed me.
Another feature is that they consider Ikeda as the great master, i don't see it as a great problem. I don't see they treat him as a divinity. Perhaps the simple people do.
The problem i see in Gakkai is that they don't study others buddhist texts, mainly Tiantai ones and study mainly "Ikeda's orientations" or from others leaders. With it they will loose their buddhist rootsand philosophy with time.

We cannot forget that they were the responsible by bring Nichiren buddhism to the west and present nichiren buddhism as somenthing with union with society , as a way to change it too.
i recall one year my chapter chief was amazed Ikeda wrote 187 books, in one year.
To him he was like enlightened, years later i learned about ghost writers.

It is quite possible that ikeda does not even realizes what they turned him into.

in one of his books he was asked about the hippies, and his response was" The song by bob dylan desolation row says it all "
he lost me at the moment of reading that, but maybe it was a ghost writer.

obviously whoever wrote that had no idea of the song's lyrical genius .
narhwal90
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by narhwal90 »

"Actual proof" is still very much the metric, though these days its not about getting the car but keeping the family together, overcoming illness and so on. Material success as a consequence is accepted, and is praised for newcomers- but even then its never presented as a goal.

The lack of study outside Human Revolution and the "greatest hits" gosho is a big issue for me. If there were study meetings where we took a chapter from the Lotus Sutra each month I'd be all over it, for a long time now its mostly very limited gosho sections and Human Revolution; so pretty shallow. OTOH I never found Pres Ikeda's writing inspirational, but clearly others do. His one-liners in the SGI Guidance daily readers are good but that only goes so far.
mansurhirbi87
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:14 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by mansurhirbi87 »

tkp67 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:21 pm
Years ago Gakkai emphasis on what they use to call actual proof that was usually related to material benefits was something that disturbed me.
Another feature is that they consider Ikeda as the great master, i don't see it as a great problem. I don't see they treat him as a divinity. Perhaps the simple people do.
I am so far from simple that this resonates with me. Years have given me a different outlook on some things. The following thoughts come to mind.

Perhaps simple people should be defined as lacking in conditions, capacity and cause but not in terms of redeemable sentient potential.

Perhaps those at a stage where they lack across the board they require outside agency to attach their mind onto as "compass" to escape the very lack they are confined by.

This is to say that the problem may not be as much as a problem as it is a sign of where there person is in regards to development and capacity.

I felt the same way as you did and it powerfully effected my decisions. Now I wonder if it wasn't my own lack to compassionately understand the needs of minds that differ from mine. Perhaps they where more passionate and committed even if they lacked what I saw as clarity. Maybe they where as clear as they could be and it was my obfuscation to appreciate it. :shrug:
As i wrote , to me, IMHO, the biggest problem is that they kind of interpretate Nichiren buddhism as something too much diferent from its buddhist origins and sources (something they got from Nichiren Shoshu i guess). I think that if they don't return to it (studying, talking about, printing, etc.) , they will loose their porpose and followers.
mansurhirbi87
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:14 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by mansurhirbi87 »

Minobu wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:24 pm
mansurhirbi87 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:58 pm Years ago Gakkai emphasis on what they use to call actual proof that was usually related to material benefits was something that disturbed me.
Another feature is that they consider Ikeda as the great master, i don't see it as a great problem. I don't see they treat him as a divinity. Perhaps the simple people do.
The problem i see in Gakkai is that they don't study others buddhist texts, mainly Tiantai ones and study mainly "Ikeda's orientations" or from others leaders. With it they will loose their buddhist rootsand philosophy with time.

We cannot forget that they were the responsible by bring Nichiren buddhism to the west and present nichiren buddhism as somenthing with union with society , as a way to change it too.
i recall one year my chapter chief was amazed Ikeda wrote 187 books, in one year.
To him he was like enlightened, years later i learned about ghost writers.

It is quite possible that ikeda does not even realizes what they turned him into.

in one of his books he was asked about the hippies, and his response was" The song by bob dylan desolation row says it all "
he lost me at the moment of reading that, but maybe it was a ghost writer.

obviously whoever wrote that had no idea of the song's lyrical genius .
Come on, it's not true that it's said that Ikeda wrote 187 books in one year. I don't think you believe that it is oficialy said by Gakkai
Last edited by mansurhirbi87 on Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mansurhirbi87
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:14 am

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by mansurhirbi87 »

narhwal90 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:39 pm "Actual proof" is still very much the metric, though these days its not about getting the car but keeping the family together, overcoming illness and so on. Material success as a consequence is accepted, and is praised for newcomers- but even then its never presented as a goal.

The lack of study outside Human Revolution and the "greatest hits" gosho is a big issue for me. If there were study meetings where we took a chapter from the Lotus Sutra each month I'd be all over it, for a long time now its mostly very limited gosho sections and Human Revolution; so pretty shallow. OTOH I never found Pres Ikeda's writing inspirational, but clearly others do. His one-liners in the SGI Guidance daily readers are good but that only goes so far.
Agree. I would add that other classical buddhist text should be studied too. Mainly Tiantai texts.

Something i like to mention is that i read that President Ikeda wrote a commentary on Ongi Kuden. That it something i like to read
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3229
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Soka Gakkai yesterday and today

Post by Minobu »

mansurhirbi87 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:46 pm
Minobu wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:24 pm
mansurhirbi87 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:58 pm Years ago Gakkai emphasis on what they use to call actual proof that was usually related to material benefits was something that disturbed me.
Another feature is that they consider Ikeda as the great master, i don't see it as a great problem. I don't see they treat him as a divinity. Perhaps the simple people do.
The problem i see in Gakkai is that they don't study others buddhist texts, mainly Tiantai ones and study mainly "Ikeda's orientations" or from others leaders. With it they will loose their buddhist rootsand philosophy with time.

We cannot forget that they were the responsible by bring Nichiren buddhism to the west and present nichiren buddhism as somenthing with union with society , as a way to change it too.
i recall one year my chapter chief was amazed Ikeda wrote 187 books, in one year.
To him he was like enlightened, years later i learned about ghost writers.

It is quite possible that ikeda does not even realizes what they turned him into.

in one of his books he was asked about the hippies, and his response was" The song by bob dylan desolation row says it all "
he lost me at the moment of reading that, but maybe it was a ghost writer.

obviously whoever wrote that had no idea of the song's lyrical genius .
Come on, it's not true that it's said that Ikeda wrote 187 books in one year. I don't think you believe that it is oficialy said by Gakkai
ok look this was back in the 70's at a meeting at me mum's house and the chapter leader was like a fanatical loon boon anyway...and he was all gushing that Sensei wrote like 118 books or 187 books that year...

anyway check back to what he wrote in japan through the sekyo tribune thing left over from Toda.
Post Reply

Return to “Nichiren”