NMHRK is a mantra or not

tkp67
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by tkp67 »

Minobu wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:40 am
tkp67 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:36 am
Minobu wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:53 am It's weird but without the core teachings that we seem to refute as being gone of their best before date... there can be no real Buddhist learning.
Both Shakyamuni and Nichiren discard the provisional in their process of their own enlightenment. It would seem it was a necessary component of their own enlightenment.
and yet they both knew all there was to know.
Both aspects where expressed in the same existence. Two sides of one coin if you would. They need not be in contest with each other. It would seem this is a constant within the context of existence.
It would seem it was a necessary component of their own enlightenment.
thats really only in your mind...you have no idea what you are even saying. and when asked you just give more of the same without answering.

you remind me of people that read the bible word for word and think being gay is a sin.
It's dangerous
you are reading stuff way too literally..
john pointed this out recently and now it's easy to see.

I'm not up on study , and so a lot of stuff slips by me unchecked.


how does that lil diddy go "Gotta wash that man right out of my head "

toodles
[/quote]

Yet they both declare teachings accord to the capacity, causes, conditions and the time. This function exists on in individual and collective levels.

Imagine being born full sized with teeth hair car keys and a suit. An aspect of our sentient existence is the developmental process.

I personally don't understand (but an open to having it explained as I lack this capacity) the conflict it causes. If the contrast between the provisional and absolute is present in all things (as it is an aspect of the mind that sees things in these perspectives) why would the discarding a provisional perspective for an absolute one be negative? The provisional knowledge and benefits are not lost. They are reconciled to a greater truth.

We don't necessarily forget what we learned as a child when we are adults even though our behaviors have changed. Proof is how parents adapt to a child's level intuitively. Part of this intuition is a recollection of their own experiences. Even though childhood is provisional for adulthood what is learned from it isn't in contest in our own existence, instead they act in complimentary fashion.
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Minobu
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Minobu »

Minobu wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:31 pm different mantras are considered names of Buddhas...
Om Mani Padme Hum , Avalokiteshvara

Om Tare Tuttare Tare Svaha , Buddha goddess Tara
NMRK is the name for that which all things are manifest from and yet is not what it manifests.
wrong dude
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is the name of the Eternal Buddha...or more aptly is the Eternal Buddha...
God I love this place !

thanks to everyone who ever helped me on this path of discovery
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:22 am
Minobu wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:31 pm different mantras are considered names of Buddhas...
Om Mani Padme Hum , Avalokiteshvara

Om Tare Tuttare Tare Svaha , Buddha goddess Tara
NMRK is the name for that which all things are manifest from and yet is not what it manifests.
wrong dude
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is the name of the Eternal Buddha...or more aptly is the Eternal Buddha...
God I love this place !

thanks to everyone who ever helped me on this path of discovery
Literally, the chant means “Glory to the Dharma of the Lotus Sutra”:

NA MYO 無妙 = wonderful (J. Pronunciation of the Sanskrit “Namo” which in English basically has the same meaning as “praise to the wonder of the...” )
HO 法 = law (Dharma)
REN GYE 蓮華 = lotus flower
KYO 經 = sutra

Dainichi (Sanskrit: Vairocana) would be the name in Japanese closer to the idea of an eternal Buddha.

But, whatever works for you, that’s what counts.
As I posted before, it can certainly function as a mantra. If it brings one to a deeper state of concentration through which the truth of the teachings can be directly realized (experienced beyond just a conceptual understanding), as it seems to be with many Nichiren practitioners, then along with wherever else it may be, it is also functioning as mantra.
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Malcolm
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Malcolm »

mansurhirbi87 wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:16 am I know it was posedt here long ago, but it's not clear to me yet

_/\_
It is not a mantra. There is a dharani in the Lotus Sutra, but chanting an homage to the Japanese title of a text does not qualify that homage as a mantra.

Mantras are something very precise and specific, defined in tantras.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:32 pm
mansurhirbi87 wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:16 am I know it was posedt here long ago, but it's not clear to me yet

_/\_
It is not a mantra. There is a dharani in the Lotus Sutra, but chanting an homage to the Japanese title of a text does not qualify that homage as a mantra.

Mantras are something very precise and specific, defined in tantras.
Here, I would disagree with you, based on the position that something becomes mantra by way of function, rather than by way of containing some essential quality of “mantraness”.

I take this position because any string of syllables, conventionally called “mantra” (i.e. Om Mani Pad Me Hum) is therefore a composite phenomena (using the same criteria as with any other apparent object). Otherwise, for example, a mantra would have some kind of existence even having never been spoken or written.

This doesn’t mean that what is specifically regarded as a mantra (i.e. Om Mani Pad Me Hum) or Dharani in either the sutras or tantras itself doesn’t retain specific qualities or properties, just as a candle or butter lamp retains specific qualities that an electric lightbulb does not.

Just as a light bulb provides a source of light when electrified, it can be said to function as a source of light in the same way that a candle or butter lamp provides a source of light, even though it is not a candle or butter lamp, “source of light” being the criteria, to be used by the practitioner, or offered on a shrine.

Likewise, if the chanting of “NMHRK” serves to focus the mind single pointedly, helps to pacify kleshas and remove obstacles and so on, then by way of function it is also a mantra.

However, while the flame from a candle or butter lamp might also be used for igniting the tip of a stick of incense, a light bulb cannot provide that function, because it doesn’t possess the qualities needed in order to do that.

So, it can be said that because NMHRK is not composed of sacred seed syllables, it does not function in the sense that a mantra functions within the context of Vajrayana or “mantrayana” practice. This, I think, is your argument.

It’s a mantra, but it’s not a mantra in the context of Vajrayana. If one argues that mantra only exists within the context of Vajrayana, and that to therefore refer to anything outside of Vajrayana as mantra is incorrect, then I think one only needs to look at practically every non-Buddhist spiritual tradition in India which employs the use of mantra to see that this is not the case; that Vajrayana Buddhism doesn’t own an exclusive definition of or use of mantra.
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tkp67
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by tkp67 »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:41 am
The fact is that the meditation on three thousand realms in a single moment of life and the method of meditation known as threefold contemplation in a single mind are contained within the five characters Myoho-renge-kyo. And these five characters, Myoho-renge-kyo, are also contained within the single life of each of us. Thus T’ien-t’ai’s commentary states: “This Myoho-renge-kyo represents the depths of the secret storehouse of the original state, the enlightenment attained by the Thus Come Ones of the three existences.”10

When we chant this Myoho-renge-kyo, the Buddha of original enlightenment present in our lives becomes manifest. Our bodies and minds are comparable to the storehouse of the teachings, and the word myō is comparable to the seal [that permits the opening of the storehouse]. Thus the commentary of T’ien-t’ai states: “To reveal the depths of the secret storehouse—this is called myō, or wonderful. To define the proper relationship between the provisional and the true—this is termed hō, or the Law. To point to the original enlightenment attained by the Buddha in the far distant past—this is compared to ren, or lotus. To clarify the perfect way of the p.86non-duality of provisional and true—this is compared to ge, or blossom. The voice carries out the work of the Buddha, and this is called kyō, or sutra.”11

And the commentary also states: “Myō is a term used to praise the Law that is beyond ordinary comprehension. Myō is also the Law of the Ten Worlds and the ten factors, the Law that is both provisional and true.”12

Chanting the daimoku, or title, of the Lotus Sutra is the same as carrying out meditation. Ignorant persons may find this difficult to believe. But the second volume of Great Concentration and Insight by T’ien-t’ai has a passage “regarding recitation and silence” in which the word “recitation” refers to recitation of the Lotus Sutra and “silence” to the practice of meditation or contemplation. And again, in the first volume of his Meaning of the Four Teachings, T’ien-t’ai states: “Not only [are such practices as recitation] not a needless waste of effort, they are essential in enabling one to grasp the principle involved.”

The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai was a reincarnation of the bodhisattva Medicine King, and in his commentaries he discussed the merits of reciting the sutra and those of meditation. To begin with, in his commentaries he defined four guidelines for interpreting the words and phrases of the Lotus Sutra, namely, causes and conditions, correlated teachings, theoretical and essential teachings, and observation of the mind. But persons who do not understand the importance of these four types of interpretation are likely to apply only one type of interpretation, turning all their attention to the way in which the passage relates to the theoretical and essential teachings, or turning all their attention to how it relates to observation of the mind.

In the Lotus Sutra, we find the doctrine directly stated, we find it taught through similes, and we find it taught through an explanation of causes and conditions in the past. In passages where the doctrine is directly stated, the original purpose for which the Buddhas appear in the world is set forth, the direct path by which all living beings can attain Buddhahood. And daimoku represents the cause and condition that permits not only us but all living beings to proceed directly to the place of enlightenment.

Therefore T’ien-t’ai in the first volume of his Profound Meaning states: “All the little practices of goodness are gathered together, and one finds one’s destination in the breadth and magnitude of the one vehicle.”13 By “breadth and magnitude” he means that all living beings without exception shall be guided to this goal.

Although this goal may be set forth as the original purpose for which one person, Shakyamuni, made his appearance in the world, yet all beings in the stage of near-perfect enlightenment and below should look up to it and should have faith in this sutra, the Lotus. For this sutra itself is the original purpose for which the Buddhas appear in the world.
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/180

The Doctrines of Three Thousand Realms
tkp67
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by tkp67 »

Three Great Secret Laws [三大秘法] ( sandai-hihō): The core principles of Nichiren’s teaching. They are the object of devotion of the essential teaching, the daimoku of the essential teaching, and the sanctuary of the essential teaching. Here, “essential teaching” refers to the teaching of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and not to the essential teaching, or the latter fourteen chapters, of the Lotus Sutra. Nichiren (1222–1282) established these three essential principles to enable people in the Latter Day of the Law to attain Buddhahood. They are called secret because they are implicit in the text of the “Life Span” (sixteenth) chapter of the Lotus Sutra and remained hidden or unknown until Nichiren revealed them. Nichiren regarded them as the vital teaching that Shakyamuni Buddha transferred to Bodhisattva Superior Practices in the “Supernatural Powers” (twenty-first) chapter of the sutra. He regarded his mission as one with that of Bodhisattva Superior Practices.
The Three Great Secret Laws represent Nichiren’s embodiment of the Wonderful Law, to which he was enlightened, in a form that all people can practice and thereby gain access to that Law within their own lives. He associated the Three Great Secret Laws with the three types of learning set forth in Buddhism—precepts, meditation, and wisdom. Specifically, the object of devotion corresponds to meditation, the sanctuary to precepts, and the daimoku to wisdom. Concerning the three types of learning based on the Lotus Sutra, Dengyō (767–822), in his Questions and Answers on Regulations for Students of the Tendai Lotus School, states, “The spacelike immovable precept, the spacelike immovable meditation, and the spacelike immovable wisdom—these three all together are transmitted under the name ‘Wonderful Law.’” The three types of learning based on the Lotus Sutra are called “spacelike” and “immovable” because they are eternal and indestructible. Nikkō, Nichiren’s successor, stated that in Nichiren’s teachings the object of devotion corresponds to the spacelike immovable meditation, the sanctuary to the spacelike immovable precept, and the daimoku to the spacelike immovable wisdom.
Nichiren mentions the Three Great Secret Laws in several of his writings (all dated after his near execution at Tatsunokuchi and subsequent exile to Sado Island in 1271), and in a work known as On the Three Great Secret Laws, he offers a detailed definition.
At the core of the Three Great Secret Laws is the object of devotion of the essential teaching, or Nichiren’s embodiment in the form of a mandala of the eternal Law of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, which he fully realized and manifested in his life. He writes in The Person and the Law, “Deep in this mortal flesh I preserve the ultimate secret Law inherited from Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, at Eagle Peak” (1097). Because embracing this object of devotion called the Gohonzon is the only precept in Nichiren’s teaching, the place where it is enshrined corresponds to the place where one vows to observe the Buddhist precepts—the ordination platform, or sanctuary, of the essential teaching. The term precept in Buddhism implies preventing error and putting an end to evil. The daimoku of the essential teaching indicates the invocation or chanting of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with faith in the object of devotion; it includes chanting the daimoku for oneself and teaching it to others. Thus, both the sanctuary and the daimoku derive from the object of devotion. Together the Three Great Secret Laws give one the access to Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, the ultimate Law of life and the universe.
Daimoku of the essential teaching [本門の題目] ( hommon-no-daimoku): The invocation of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo; more precisely, the practice of chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with belief in the object of devotion of the essential teaching. Here, “essential teaching” refers to the teaching of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, not to the essential teaching defined as the latter half of the Lotus Sutra. The daimoku of the essential teaching is one of the Three Great Secret Laws set forth by Nichiren (1222–1282). There are two aspects of daimoku: the daimoku of faith and the daimoku of practice. In his Letter to Hōren, Nichiren writes, “If you try to practice the teachings of the [Lotus] sutra without faith, it would be like trying to enter a jeweled mountain without hands [to pick up its treasures] “ (511). Thus the daimoku of the essential teaching requires both faith and practice. See also Three Great Secret Laws.
daimoku [題目] (): (1) The title of a sutra, in particular the title of the Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful Law (Chin Miao-fa-lien-hua-ching;  Myoho-renge-kyo). The title of a sutra represents the essence of the sutra. Miao-lo (711–782) says in The Annotations on “The Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra,” “When for the sake of brevity one mentions only the daimoku, or title, the entire sutra is by implication included therein.”
(2) The invocation of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo in Nichiren’s teachings. One of his Three Great Secret Laws. See also daimoku of the essential teaching.
narhwal90
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by narhwal90 »

Not sure of the distinctions between lamps and flames here, a wide variety of lamps can present bulb surface temperaturea as high as a candle flame, or even higher. Some searchlights are capable of igniting an entire sheet of newspaper held in front of the lens.

the point being analogies with respect to bulbs vs flames as sources of ignition or light may not be well founded, ie the items in question may differ mostly as poimts on a continuum vs being fundamentally different.
Malcolm
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Malcolm »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:26 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:32 pm
mansurhirbi87 wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:16 am I know it was posedt here long ago, but it's not clear to me yet

_/\_
It is not a mantra. There is a dharani in the Lotus Sutra, but chanting an homage to the Japanese title of a text does not qualify that homage as a mantra.

Mantras are something very precise and specific, defined in tantras.
Here, I would disagree with you, based on the position that something becomes mantra by way of function, rather than by way of containing some essential quality of “mantraness”.
There two kinds of mantras, vidya mantras, I.e. knowledge mantras, and guhya mantras, or secret mantras. The former are used for developing prajna, the latter are for method. Other than these two, in Buddhism there are no other kinds of mantras. These mantras are taught in the tantras, and some sutras, where they are clearly defined as mantras, like “om gate gate...” etc. the latter mantra from the heart sutra is a vidya mantra.They all begin with om, and end with either svaha or hum, and sometimes phat. Nembutsu and Daimoku do not qualify as mantras. This has nothing to do with whether they are valid practices. These two practices are Buddha anusmrti, like “Namo Buddha” recitation in Theravada.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:29 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:26 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:32 pm

It is not a mantra. There is a dharani in the Lotus Sutra, but chanting an homage to the Japanese title of a text does not qualify that homage as a mantra.

Mantras are something very precise and specific, defined in tantras.
Here, I would disagree with you, based on the position that something becomes mantra by way of function, rather than by way of containing some essential quality of “mantraness”.
There two kinds of mantras, vidya mantras, I.e. knowledge mantras, and guhya mantras, or secret mantras. The former are used for developing prajna, the latter are for method. Other than these two, in Buddhism there are no other kinds of mantras. These mantras are taught in the tantras, and some sutras, where they are clearly defined as mantras, like “om gate gate...” etc. They all begin with om, and end with either svaha or hum, and sometimes phat.
In that sense, true as you say.
aside from that, it is merely a question of form vs. function.
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Minobu
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Minobu »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:47 am
Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:22 am
Minobu wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:31 pm different mantras are considered names of Buddhas...
Om Mani Padme Hum , Avalokiteshvara

Om Tare Tuttare Tare Svaha , Buddha goddess Tara
NMRK is the name for that which all things are manifest from and yet is not what it manifests.
wrong dude
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is the name of the Eternal Buddha...or more aptly is the Eternal Buddha...
God I love this place !

thanks to everyone who ever helped me on this path of discovery
Literally, the chant means “Glory to the Dharma of the Lotus Sutra”:

NA MYO 無妙 = wonderful (J. Pronunciation of the Sanskrit “Namo” which in English basically has the same meaning as “praise to the wonder of the...” )
HO 法 = law (Dharma)
REN GYE 蓮華 = lotus flower
KYO 經 = sutra

Dainichi (Sanskrit: Vairocana) would be the name in Japanese closer to the idea of an eternal Buddha.

But, whatever works for you, that’s what counts.
As I posted before, it can certainly function as a mantra. If it brings one to a deeper state of concentration through which the truth of the teachings can be directly realized (experienced beyond just a conceptual understanding), as it seems to be with many Nichiren practitioners, then along with wherever else it may be, it is also functioning as mantra.
You might not know this of me ...but i am a fan of yours for some of your stuff is incredibly inspiring for me...not all...lol...but when you hit it...the bell rings for me..

that being said and out of the way...i just want you to know i respect your opinions..

in this case though I have to call you out.

first up due to the whole Lotus Buddhism thing from Lord Sakyamuni Buddha to Tien Tai The Great To Dengyo The Great to Nichiren Shonin MyoHo Renge Kyo is not just the title of the Lotus Sutra ...

Now in The Lotus Sutra Lord Sakyamuni Buddha tells us that in fact He did not first attain Enlightenment under the Bodhi but it happened a long long long time ago.. He was a common mortal who attained Buddhahood..I don't view this as upaya .

I believe Lord Vairocana Buddha is an Emanation of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha . That tells me something about a time frame and your claim He is The Primordial Buddha...Also as Malcolm pointed out somewhere here at DW they have been other Buddhas before Lord Sakyamuni Buddha and more to come.

As you know a Buddha is a common mortal who attained Buddhahood.

This is the problem for me anyway when it comes to the concept of a Primordial Buddha ..What came first the chicken or the egg .

So for me anyway as my Root Guru once said to me, "When it comes to The Primordial Buddha the jury is still out. This debate has been going on for a long time" . He is a Tibetan Rinpoche , so I guess He does not follow TenDai and teaches through the lense of Tibetan Buddhism...this is just an idea of mine , for I truly believe in Zasep Tulku Rinpoche's Dharmakaya Body, and have no idea what goes on in His Head...I just take what ever He taught me as Truth. and most of the time I screw it all up...(omits a lol due to the gravity of my situation)

So Lotus Buddhism seems to have solved this . MyoHo Renge Kyo is The Eternal Buddha by which all Buddhas attain Buddhahood and is something only shared and understood by Buddhas.

I'm no scholar , but i have this vague inkling as to this Truth.

Also Nam or Namu for us means taking refuge not as you say
Pronunciation of the Sanskrit “Namo” which in English basically has the same meaning as “praise to the wonder of the...
it's way more than praise...Gakki used to say it meant devotion...which is not the same as taking refuge in something.
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Minobu
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Minobu »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:29 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:26 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:32 pm

It is not a mantra. There is a dharani in the Lotus Sutra, but chanting an homage to the Japanese title of a text does not qualify that homage as a mantra.

Mantras are something very precise and specific, defined in tantras.
Here, I would disagree with you, based on the position that something becomes mantra by way of function, rather than by way of containing some essential quality of “mantraness”.
There two kinds of mantras, vidya mantras, I.e. knowledge mantras, and guhya mantras, or secret mantras. The former are used for developing prajna, the latter are for method. Other than these two, in Buddhism there are no other kinds of mantras. These mantras are taught in the tantras, and some sutras, where they are clearly defined as mantras, like “om gate gate...” etc. the latter mantra from the heart sutra is a vidya mantra.They all begin with om, and end with either svaha or hum, and sometimes phat. Nembutsu and Daimoku do not qualify as mantras. This has nothing to do with whether they are valid practices. These two practices are Buddha anusmrti, like “Namo Buddha” recitation in Theravada.
Well my first mantra i received from TM was just , for me anyway, a two syllable word. no Om...

And just saying but Nichiren Shonin never taught that Nam Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo is a mantra, It is a chant.
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Malcolm »

Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:52 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:29 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:26 pm

Here, I would disagree with you, based on the position that something becomes mantra by way of function, rather than by way of containing some essential quality of “mantraness”.
There two kinds of mantras, vidya mantras, I.e. knowledge mantras, and guhya mantras, or secret mantras. The former are used for developing prajna, the latter are for method. Other than these two, in Buddhism there are no other kinds of mantras. These mantras are taught in the tantras, and some sutras, where they are clearly defined as mantras, like “om gate gate...” etc. the latter mantra from the heart sutra is a vidya mantra.They all begin with om, and end with either svaha or hum, and sometimes phat. Nembutsu and Daimoku do not qualify as mantras. This has nothing to do with whether they are valid practices. These two practices are Buddha anusmrti, like “Namo Buddha” recitation in Theravada.
Well my first mantra i received from TM was just , for me anyway, a two syllable word. no Om...
I specified Buddhism.
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Malcolm »

Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:49 pm
it's way more than praise...Gakki used to say it meant devotion...which is not the same as taking refuge in something.
More or less, devotion and refuge are the same thing.
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Minobu »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:39 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:52 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:29 pm

There two kinds of mantras, vidya mantras, I.e. knowledge mantras, and guhya mantras, or secret mantras. The former are used for developing prajna, the latter are for method. Other than these two, in Buddhism there are no other kinds of mantras. These mantras are taught in the tantras, and some sutras, where they are clearly defined as mantras, like “om gate gate...” etc. the latter mantra from the heart sutra is a vidya mantra.They all begin with om, and end with either svaha or hum, and sometimes phat. Nembutsu and Daimoku do not qualify as mantras. This has nothing to do with whether they are valid practices. These two practices are Buddha anusmrti, like “Namo Buddha” recitation in Theravada.
Well my first mantra i received from TM was just , for me anyway, a two syllable word. no Om...
I specified Buddhism.
Ha! as an afterthought i knew you were going to say that..
and later on i came up with...

Due to the fact that Lord Sakyamuni Buddha turned the Dharma Wheel every teaching that is imbued with love is Buddhism...technically.

I is just being a smart ass Malcolm.
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Minobu
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Minobu »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:40 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:49 pm
it's way more than praise...Gakki used to say it meant devotion...which is not the same as taking refuge in something.
More or less, devotion and refuge are the same thing.
actually there is a subtle difference...devotion can be blind where as taking refuge is an act.
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:11 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:40 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:49 pm
it's way more than praise...Gakki used to say it meant devotion...which is not the same as taking refuge in something.
More or less, devotion and refuge are the same thing.
actually there is a subtle difference...devotion can be blind where as taking refuge is an act.
I think the point being made is that, with regards to the three (Buddha, Dharma, Sangha)
You wouldn’t go for refuge in something that you wouldn’t also be devoted to,
And you wouldn’t be devoted to something you wouldn’t also take refuge in.

Just because, sure, a person can go off in a different direction and be blindly devoted to something doesn’t change the context here.
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by _johnarundel_ »

Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is the ultimate Law, and possesses both the simultaneous cause and effect for attaining Buddhahood.

I suggest reading Totaigi-sho or "The Entity of the Mystic Law"

This Law is embodied in the Gohonzon. When we chant these seven characters to the Gohonzon, we awaken our Buddha-nature.

Whether or not "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo" is a mantra is not the point. It is the true Law embodied in the Gohonzon, hidden in depth of the Juryo chapter of the Lotus Sutra. It is the cause for the enlightenment of all Buddhas

https://www.nst.org/articles/myoho-renge-kyo/
Last edited by _johnarundel_ on Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The five characters of Myoho-Renge-Kyo are the core of the Lotus Sutra and the origin of all Buddhas throughout the entire world. Upon seeing the signs that these five characters now must be propagated, I, Nichiren, have set the precedent, today, at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law."

- Nichiren Daishonin, “Shuju onfurumai-gosho” 種種御振舞御書


https://www.nichirenshoshu.or.jp/eng/daishonin.html
Malcolm
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by Malcolm »

Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:11 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:40 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:49 pm
it's way more than praise...Gakki used to say it meant devotion...which is not the same as taking refuge in something.
More or less, devotion and refuge are the same thing.
actually there is a subtle difference...devotion can be blind where as taking refuge is an act.
Refuge can also be blind, for example, taking sacred groves as a refuge and so on. So, there really is no difference.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: NMHRK is a mantra or not

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:48 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:11 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:40 pm

More or less, devotion and refuge are the same thing.
actually there is a subtle difference...devotion can be blind where as taking refuge is an act.
Refuge can also be blind, for example, taking sacred groves as a refuge and so on. So, there really is no difference.
Taking refuge is an expression of devotion;
Devotion is an expression of taking refuge.
Although each can have other meanings,
between the two, there is no conflict of meaning.
Be kindness
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