Shinjin Scripture Passage

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plwk
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Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Shinjin Scripture Passage

Post by plwk » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:03 am

I was reading this passage today....
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実如上人が順誓に、「<自分が信心を得てもいないのに、人に信心を得なさいと勧めるのは、自分は何もものを持たないでいて、人にものを与えようとするようなものである。これでは人が承知するはずがない>と,蓮如上人はお示しになった」と仰せになりました。そして、「『往生礼讃』に<自信教人信>とあるのだから、まず自分自身の信心を決定して、その上で他の人々に信心を勧めるのである。これが仏恩報謝になるのである。自分自身の信心を決定してから人に教えて信心を勧めるのは、すなわち仏の大悲を人々にひろく伝える、<大悲伝普化>ということなのである」と続けて仰せになりました。
御一代記聞書93

To urge people to attain shinjin even though you have no shinjin yourself is the same as giving something to others even though you do not have it.
People will not approve of this.

This is Rennyo Shōnin's remark that the former abbot (Jitsunyo Shōnin) related to Junsei.

(Jitsunyo Shōnin) continued, "Since it is stated (in the scripture), 'After you have settled your shinjin, you teach others shinjin,' you can really repay your indebtedness to the Buddha's benevolence by settling your shinjin first and then teaching others shinjin. Leading others to shinjin after you have settled your shinjin complies with the teaching that urges you to 'spread the Great Compassion and guide people universally'."
GOICHIDAIKI-KIKIGAKI 93
Two questions...
a. Why is Rennyo Shōnin (as bolded and underlined above) mentioning about 'attaining' shinjin' and Jitsunyo Shōnin on 'settling shinjin' (as bolded above) when the 'prevailing opinion' is ... (To borrow an example definition of shinjin as below)
Shinjin is meant receiving the blessed gift of Shinjin from Amida Buddha through His transferred merit to all beings who take single minded refuge in Him.
The transferred merit is through the OTHER POWER (Jp. “tariki”) of Amida.


b. What's the scripture that Jitsunyo Shōnin is referring to as bolded above?

:thanks:

Rakz
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Re: Shinjin Scripture Passage

Post by Rakz » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:53 am

From what I understand but I may be wrong, Rennyo was strongly influenced by Jodo Shu.

Admin_PC
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Re: Shinjin Scripture Passage

Post by Admin_PC » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:49 pm

plwk wrote:I was reading this passage today....
Link
実如上人が順誓に、「<自分が信心を得てもいないのに、人に信心を得なさいと勧めるのは、自分は何もものを持たないでいて、人にものを与えようとするようなものである。これでは人が承知するはずがない>と,蓮如上人はお示しになった」と仰せになりました。そして、「『往生礼讃』に<自信教人信>とあるのだから、まず自分自身の信心を決定して、その上で他の人々に信心を勧めるのである。これが仏恩報謝になるのである。自分自身の信心を決定してから人に教えて信心を勧めるのは、すなわち仏の大悲を人々にひろく伝える、<大悲伝普化>ということなのである」と続けて仰せになりました。
御一代記聞書93

To urge people to attain shinjin even though you have no shinjin yourself is the same as giving something to others even though you do not have it.
People will not approve of this.

This is Rennyo Shōnin's remark that the former abbot (Jitsunyo Shōnin) related to Junsei.

(Jitsunyo Shōnin) continued, "Since it is stated (in the scripture), 'After you have settled your shinjin, you teach others shinjin,' you can really repay your indebtedness to the Buddha's benevolence by settling your shinjin first and then teaching others shinjin. Leading others to shinjin after you have settled your shinjin complies with the teaching that urges you to 'spread the Great Compassion and guide people universally'."
GOICHIDAIKI-KIKIGAKI 93
Two questions...
a. Why is Rennyo Shōnin (as bolded and underlined above) mentioning about 'attaining' shinjin' and Jitsunyo Shōnin on 'settling shinjin' (as bolded above) when the 'prevailing opinion' is ... (To borrow an example definition of shinjin as below)
Shinjin is meant receiving the blessed gift of Shinjin from Amida Buddha through His transferred merit to all beings who take single minded refuge in Him.
The transferred merit is through the OTHER POWER (Jp. “tariki”) of Amida.


b. What's the scripture that Jitsunyo Shōnin is referring to as bolded above?

:thanks:
Good questions!

a. I think this may be a translation issue...

実如上人が順誓に、「<自分が信心を得てもいないのに、人に信心を得なさいと勧めるのは、自分は何もものを持たないでいて、人にものを与えようとするようなものである。これでは人が承知するはずがない>と,蓮如上人はお示しになった」と仰せになりました。

This is the initial passage between JitsuNyo Shonin (apparently the 5th son of Rennyo?) addressing Junsei with a quote from Rennyo.

The verb here is 得る, which means:
(1) (after the -masu stem of a verb) to be able to ...; can ...;
(2) to get; to acquire; to obtain; to procure; to earn; to win; to gain; to secure; to attain;

Attain is in there as a definition, but this verb can also be used to describe the act of (actively) receiving.

そして、「『往生礼讃』に<自信教人信>とあるのだから、まず自分自身の信心を決定して、その上で他の人々に信心を勧めるのである。これが仏恩報謝になるのである。自分自身の信心を決定してから人に教えて信心を勧めるのは、すなわち仏の大悲を人々にひろく伝える、<大悲伝普化>ということなのである」と続けて仰せになりました。
御一代記聞書93

Next is the passage where they're quoting the scripture.
Here, the verb is 決定する, which means (adjusting for tense):
(1) decided, determined, settled

Also the phrase 他の人々に信心を勧める is a little weird how it's translated. IMHO it would be better as "recommend Shinjin to others" or "encourage others toward Shinjin", and maybe not "teaching [others] Shinjin".

Basically "In OjoRaisan, the phrase '自信教人信' means, first have one's own Shinjin settled, and then encourage others towards shinjin. This is how one repays the benevolence of the Buddha. Having Shinjin settled for oneself, then teaching others, and encouraging them towards Shinjin, that is precisely conveying to people far and wide the great compassion of the Tathagata."

b. This part: 「『往生礼讃』に means they're referring to ShanTao's OjoRaisan or "Liturgy for Rebirth", which is part of the Taisho.

plwk
Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Re: Shinjin Scripture Passage

Post by plwk » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:43 pm

A big thank you and very good analysis there PC. I too wondered if it was about the translation part.
From what I understand but I may be wrong, Rennyo was strongly influenced by Jodo Shu.
Well, as I understand from reading parts of Rennyo's colorful life and his illustrious career with Jodo Shinshu, it's still an academic point for some on this matter despite him introducing some stuff from the Jodo Shu side plus his toleration of the native kami practices. Until I get hold of the Goichidaiki Kikigaki, it's hard for me to reach any conclusion for now.

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