What is Mixed Practice?

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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Admin_PC » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:20 am

This is a Mahayana forum. Let's stick with definitions from Mahayana sources.
http://buddhistfaith.tripod.com/purelan ... s/id6.html
2. FAITH AND THREE MINDS (SANJIN)

Within the sutras which concern Pure Land teachings, the word sanjin is frequently used. The foundation of this term comes from three terms found in the Pure Land Sanskrit texts: shraddha, prasada, and adhimukti. Shraddha was translated into Chinese as hsin which means faith. Prasada was translated into Chinese as ch'eng-ching which means purity. Adhimukti was translated as hsin-chieh which means faith through understanding. Within the sutras concerning Pure Land teachings, prasada is the most commonly found of the three terms. In Hinduism, the idea of faith is expressed as bhakti. Bhakti is regarded as the highest path of interface with the gods and also implies the deepest reverence for gods. On the other hand, Pure Land prasada differs in that it appears less emotional and more serene and subtle due to its relation to prajna (wisdom) and samadhi (concentration) [Fujita 616]. From these terms, Pure Land teaching developed three concrete aspects of faith called sanjin.

The teachings concerning the "three minds" or three kinds of mind necessary for Buddhist enlightenment occurs in every sect and tradition, however, the mode of explanation varies in accord with its central teachings. This is also true in the Pure Land tradition. The Meditation Sutra (Kuan wu-liang-shou ching) itself does not explain precisely what kinds of mindset are comprized by the "three kinds of mind." As a result the many commentators on the Meditation Sutra in China wrote many different explanations of these three kinds of mind. Shan-tao in his commentary on the Commentary on the the Meditation Sutra (Kuan wu-liang-shou ching shu) first elaborated a clear and impressive explanation of the three kinds of mind which the proper nembutsu practitioner must possess. The peaceful mind (anjin) is an equivalent of the "three states of mind" (sanjin). This key notion of the "peaceful mind" is closely connected to two other key notions: the "performance of the five right practices" (kigyo) and the "four ways in which the nembutsu is practiced" (sago).

2B. The "Three Minds" (sanjin) as set forth in the Meditation Sutra

I. the sincere mind (shijoshin)
II. the profound mind (jinshin)
IIa) the profound conviction that one is sinful and deluded (shinki)
IIb)the deep faith that Amida Buddha can & will still extend his salvific power (shinpo)
III. the mind that transfers all merit [toward birth in the Pure Land] and resolves to be born there
(ekohotsuganshin).
http://www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xp ... 5%E4%BF%A1
一念信 - "ichinenshin"
Basic Meaning: instant consciousness of faith
- Momentary, non-dual faithful mind. "If one instant consciousness of faith 一念信 arises, one will rapidly ascend to the unsurpassed Way [of the Tathāgata]" 〔華嚴經 T 279.10.124a11〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Ui, Nakamura]
http://www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xp ... 1%E5%BF%83
信心 - "shinjin"
Basic Meaning: faith
-A believing mind, which receives without doubting. To believe firmly in oneʼs original mind, or to believe in the Three Treasures. 〔起信論 T 1666.32.575b20〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Yokoi]

-(Skt. adhimukti, adhyāśaya, prasāda; adhimuktika, ādara, citta-prasāda, *prasāda-citta, bhakti, śraddhā, śraddhā-prasanna, śraddhā-mātraka, śraddhêndriya, śrāddha, saṃpratyaya, saśraddha) [Charles Muller; source(s): Soothill, Hirakawa]
http://www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xp ... 1%E4%BD%8D
信向 - "shinkou"
Basic Meaning: stage(s) of faith
-The first 10 bodhisattva stages in the 52-stage scheme 十信. 〔四教儀 T 1931.46.778a10 〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Ina-Z, FGD]

-The absolute state; the state of enlightenment as distinguished from the stage of people 人位. [Charles Muller; source(s): Ina-Z]
http://www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xp ... 1%E5%BF%83
他力信心 - "tariki shinjin"

Basic Meaning: faith in other-power
-The belief, best exemplified in the True Pure Land school, that one is to have faith in the salvific power of Amitâbha Buddha 阿彌陀佛, based on his vows 本願. According to this school, the faith in question is not the faith which one can create, but is rather the faith which Amitâbha creates — and then gives to one as his free gift when one approaches him in the correct way. [Ockbae Chun]
http://www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xp ... 1%E5%A5%89
信奉 - "shinpo"

Basic Meaning: belief
-Faith, conviction (Skt. bhakti, śraddheya). []
http://www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xp ... 1%E8%80%85
正信者 - "shousinsha"

Basic Meaning: correct faith
-Correct belief (Skt. abhiprasanna). 〔梵網經古迹記 HBJ 3.424c14; T 1815.40.692a29〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Hirakawa]
http://translate.academic.ru/%E4%B8%89%E5%BF%83/zh/
三心 "sanjin"
The three minds, or hearts; various groups are given:
(1) Three assured ways of reaching the Pure Land, by (a) 至誠心 perfect sincerity; (b) 深 profound resolve for it; (c) 廻向接發願心 resolve on demitting one's merits to others.
These are the definitions of Faith in the context of Mahayana and Pure Land Buddhism. Now if you are saying these definitions are not the definition of faith you were criticizing, then why did you bring it up in the first place? (ie Why talk about dropping faith or ranking it after "works", when it would be assumed in the Mahayana context rather than whatever straw man you're imagining?) If you are saying these definitions are precisely the definition of faith you were criticizing, then you need to admit you are directly going against the sutras and as such, it's inappropriate to be making such claims on this subforum.
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:07 am

When I think of the term "mixed practice," I usually think of the combined practice of Zen/Ch'an and Pure Land, which has been traditionally common for centuries, even for monks and nuns, in countries like China and Vietnam.

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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:06 am

Admin_PC wrote:ie Why talk about dropping faith or ranking it after "works", when it would be assumed in the Mahayana context rather than whatever straw man you're imagining?)
I'm sorry for giving a wrong impression. I didn't mean to create a strawman. In the words of Shinran Shonin, "It is deplorable that you have told people to abandon themselves to their hearts’ desires and to do anything they want. One must seek to cast off the evil of this world and to cease doing wretched deeds; this is what it means to reject the world and to live the Nembutsu." I didn't mean to go any further than Shinran did in this quote.

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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:29 pm

Admin_PC wrote:This is a Mahayana forum. Let's stick with definitions from Mahayana sources.
In terms of what I believe about the meaning of the word "faith" in a Buddhist context, I started this thread a while back:
Dharma Flower wrote:A common misconception is that shinjin somehow refers to faith in a Western sense, as in propositional belief in doctrines and dogmas. According to Shinran's Kyogyoshinsho, this is not the case:
https://books.google.com/books?id=q2kRq ... 22&f=false

In the words of the Kyogyoshinsho, "All sentient beings will, without fail, ultimately realize great shinjin. Therefore it is taught, “All sentient beings are possessed of Buddha-Nature.” Great shinjin is none other than Buddha-nature, and the Buddha-nature is none other than the Tathagata."

From Shinran's Kyogyoshinsho, we can see that there is "no Buddha apart from the mind," that "Buddha-nature is none other than the Tathagata," and that "shinjin is none other than Buddha-nature." Most of the misconceptions of Shinran's teachings arise from not reading the Kyogyoshinsho.
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Admin_PC » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:13 pm

Kyogyoshinsho - Chapter on Shinjin - FIVE GRAVE OFFENSES AND SLANDER OF THE DHARMA PASSAGES wrote:Question: What are the characteristics of slandering the right dharma?

Answer: Saying there is no Buddha, no Buddha-dharma, no bodhisattva, no bodhisattva-dharma. Deciding on such views, whether through understanding thus in one’s own mind or receiving the ideas from others, is called slandering the right dharma.

Question: Taking such views only concerns the person himself. What pain and suffering does his act inflict on other sentient beings, that it should exceed the evil of the five grave offenses in seriousness?

Answer: If there were no Buddhas and bodhisattvas to expound the mundane and supramundane good paths and to teach and guide sentient beings, how could we know of the existence of benevolence, righteousness, propriety, wisdom, and sincerity? Such mundane good would all be cut off, and the sages of the supramundane would all perish. You know only the gravity of the five grave offenses, and not that they arise from the absence of the right dharma. Thus, the person who slanders the right dharma is involved in the gravest karmic evil.
Kyogyoshinsho - Chapter on Shinjin wrote:[NOTE ON “TRUE AND REAL”]

26 The term true and real has been used. Concerning it, the Nirvana Sutra states:

True reality is the single way, pure and undefiled; there is no other. The true and real is Tathagata; Tathagata is the true and real. The true and real is boundless space; boundless space is the true and real. The true and real is Buddha-nature; Buddha-nature is the true and real.

27 [Above, Shan-tao’s] Commentary states, “Whether they be within or without, whether of brightness or darkness.”

Concerning the phrase “within or without,” “within” refers to the supramundane, “without” to the mundane. Concerning “brightness or darkness,” “brightness” refers to the supramundane, “darkness” to the mundane. Further, “brightness” refers to wisdom, “darkness” to ignorance. The Nirvana Sutra states:

Darkness refers to the mundane, brightness to the supramundane. Darkness refers to ignorance, brightness to wisdom.
Kyogyoshinsho - Chapter on Shinjin wrote:[Entrusting]

28 Next, concerning entrusting, it is the ocean of shinjin, perfect and unhindered, that is the Tathagata’s consummately fulfilled great compassion. Hence, there is no mixture of doubt. It is therefore called “entrusting.” The essence of entrusting is the sincere mind of benefiting others and directing virtues.

However, since the beginningless past, the multitudes of beings have been transmigrating in the ocean of ignorance, sinking aimlessly in the cycle of all forms of existence and bound to the cycle of all forms of pain; accordingly, they lack the entrusting that is pure. In the manner of their existence, they have no entrusting that is true and real. Hence, it is difficult for them to encounter the unexcelled virtues, difficult to realize the supreme, pure shinjin. In all small foolish beings, at all times, thoughts of greed and desire incessantly defile any goodness of heart; thoughts of anger and hatred constantly consume the dharma-treasure. Even if one urgently acts and urgently practices as though sweeping fire from one’s head, all these acts must be called “poisoned and sundry good,” and “false and deceitful practice.” They cannot be called “true and real action.” To seek to be born in the land of immeasurable light through such false and poisoned good is completely wrong.

Why? Because when the Tathagata was performing bodhisattva practices, there was not a moment – not an instant – when his practice in the three modes of action was tainted by the hindrance of doubt. Because this mind is the Tathagata’s mind of great compassion, it necessarily becomes the truly decisive cause of attaining the fulfilled land. The Tathagata, turning with compassion toward the ocean of living beings in pain and affliction, has given unhindered and vast pure shinjin to the ocean of sentient beings. This is called the “true and real shinjin that is [Amida’s] benefiting of others.”

29 The passage on the Vow’s fulfillment that reveals the shinjin of the Primal Vow states:

All sentient beings, as they hear the Name, realize even one thought-moment of shinjin and joy.

30 Further, [the corresponding passage from the Sutra of the Tathagata of Immeasurable Life] states:

When, upon hearing the Name of the Tathagata of immeasurable life, sentient beings of the Buddha-lands of other quarters awaken one thought-moment of pure shinjin, rejoice.

31 The Nirvana Sutra states:

Good sons! Great love and great compassion are called Buddha-nature. Why? Because great love and great compassion always accompany the bodhisattva, just as shadows accompany things. All sentient beings will without fail ultimately realize great love and great compassion. Therefore it is taught, “All sentient beings are possessed of Buddha-nature.” Great love and great compassion are Buddha-nature. Buddha-nature is Tathagata.

Great joy and great even-mindedness are called Buddha-nature. Why? Because if a bodhisattva-mahasattva were incapable of the twenty-five forms of existence, he could not attain the supreme, perfect enlightenment. All sentient beings will ultimately attain great joy and great even-mindedness. Therefore it is taught, “All sentient beings are possessed of Buddha-nature.” Great joy and great even-mindedness are none other than Buddha-nature. Buddha-nature is Tathagata.

Buddha-nature is great shinjin. Why? Because through shinjin the bodhisattva-mahasattva has acquired all the paramitas from charity to wisdom. All sentient beings will without fail ultimately realize great shinjin. Therefore it is taught, “All sentient beings are possessed of Buddha-nature.” Great shinjin is none other than Buddha-nature. Buddha-nature is Tathagata.

Buddha-nature is called “the state of regarding each being as one’s only child.” Why? Because through the conditions of the state of regarding each being as one’s only child, the bodhisattva has realized the mind of equality concerning all sentient beings. All sentient beings will without fail ultimately attain the state of regarding each being as one’s only child. Therefore it is taught, “All sentient beings are possessed of Buddha-nature.” The state of regarding each being as one’s only child is none other than Buddha-nature. Buddha-nature is Tathagata.

32 Further, it states:

Also it is taught, concerning the supreme, perfect enlightenment, that shinjin is its cause. Although the causes of enlightenment are without number, when shinjin has been presented, they have already been exhaustively included.

33 Further, it states:

There are two kinds of shinjin: one arises from hearing and the other from thought. This person’s shinjin has arisen from hearing but not from thought. Therefore it is called “imperfect realization of shinjin.”
Again, there are two kinds of shinjin: one is to believe that there is enlightenment, and the other, to believe that there are people who have attained it. This person’s shinjin is belief only that enlightenment exists and not that there are people who have attained it. Therefore it is called “imperfect realization of shinjin.”

34 The Garland Sutra states:

The person who hears this dharma, rejoices
In shinjin, and is free of doubt
Swiftly attains the supreme enlightenment;
Such a person is equal to the Tathagatas.

35 Further, it states:

The Tathagata dispels forever
The doubts of all sentient beings,
And all the aspirations of their hearts
He brings to complete fulfillment.

36 Further, it states:

Shinjin is the source of enlightenment, the mother of virtues;
It nurtures all forms of goodness.
It cuts away the net of doubt and breaks free from the currents of desire;
It unfolds the supreme enlightenment of nirvana.

Shinjin harbors no defiled thoughts, it is pure,
Eradicating all arrogance; it is the root of reverence
And the foremost treasure of the dharma-store.
It is the hand of purity, holding all practices within itself.

Shinjin gives freely and ungrudgingly;
Shinjin rejoices and enters the Buddha-dharma;
Shinjin makes wisdom and virtues increase;
Shinjin unfailingly reaches the stage of Tathagata.

Shinjin purifies the faculties, makes them clear and sharp;
Its power is firm and steadfast, nothing can destroy it.
Shinjin sunders forever the root of blind passions;
Shinjin leads one to seek the virtues of Buddha alone.

Shinjin knows no attachment to objects;
It separates one from the adversities, so that one attains the realm free of them.
Shinjin transcends the domain of maras
And manifests the path of unexcelled emancipation.

Shinjin keeps the seeds of virtues from destruction;
Shinjin nurtures the tree of enlightenment.
Shinjin makes supreme wisdom grow.
Shinjin makes all the Buddhas manifest.

For this reason, the process of enlightenment is taught in stages of practice;
Shinjin* is foremost, and is extremely difficult to realize…

If one constantly entrusts to and reveres the Buddhas,
That in itself is to perform great offerings.
When one performs great offerings,
One entrusts to the inconceivable working of the Buddhas.

If one constantly entrusts to and reveres the precious dharma,
One never tires of listening to the Buddha’s teaching.
If one never tires of listening to the Buddha’s teaching,
One entrusts to the inconceivable working of the dharma.

If one constantly entrusts to and reveres the undefiled Sangha,
One attains the point where shinjin never retrogresses.
If one attains the point where shinjin never retrogresses,
One’s power of shinjin is immovable.

If one’s power of shinjin is immovable,
One’s faculties are purified and become clear and sharp.
If one’s faculties are purified and become clear and sharp,
One is able to approach true teachers.

If one becomes able to approach true teachers,
One devotes oneself to practicing the vast, supreme good.
If one practices the vast, supreme good,
One acquires the immense causal power [that leads to Buddhahood].

If one acquires the immense causal power,
One attains the peerless, decisive understanding.
If one attains the peerless, decisive understanding,
One is protected by all the Buddhas.

If one is protected by all the Buddhas,
One is able to awaken the mind aspiring for enlightenment.
If one awakens the mind that aspires for enlightenment,
One diligently practices the virtues of the Buddhas.

If one diligently practices the virtues of the Buddhas,
One is born into the home of the Tathagatas.
If one is born into the home of the Tathagatas,
One performs good and practices skillful means.

If one performs good and practices skillful means,
One attains the pure mind of shinjin.*
If one attains the pure mind of shinjin,*
One realizes the unsurpassed supreme mind.

If one realizes the unsurpassed supreme mind,
One constantly practices the paramitas.
If one constantly practices the paramitas,
One fulfills all the practices of the Mahayana.

If one fulfills all the Mahayana practices,
One makes offerings to the Buddhas in accord with the dharma.
If one makes offerings to the Buddhas in accord with the dharma,
The mind of thinking on the Buddhas is immovable.

If the mind of thinking on the Buddhas becomes immovable,
One constantly sees the countless Buddhas.
If one constantly sees the countless Buddhas,
One sees that the body of Tathagata is eternal.

If one sees that the body of Tathagata is eternal,
One realizes that the dharma is everlasting and imperishable.
If one realizes that the dharma is everlasting and imperishable,
One attains unhindered powers of speech.

If one attains unhindered powers of speech,
One can expound the boundless teachings.
If one expounds the boundless teachings,
One saves sentient beings by loving and caring for them.

If one saves sentient beings by loving and caring for them,
One attains the steadfast mind of great compassion.
If one attains the steadfast mind of great compassion,
One rejoices in the most profound dharma.

If one rejoices in the most profound dharma,
One is free from the faults of the created world.
If one is free from the faults of the created world,
One rids oneself of arrogance and self-indulgence.

If one rids oneself of arrogance and self-indulgence,
One benefits all sentient beings as well as oneself.
If one benefits all sentient beings as well as oneself,
One dwells in the realm of birth-and-death without fatigue or revulsion.

37 The Commentary on the Treatise states:

It is termed, “to be in correspondence [with the significance of the Name] by practicing in accord with reality.” For this reason, the author of the Treatise states at the outset, “I, with the mind that is single”…

38 Further, it states:

Each sutra opens with the words, “Thus [have I heard]…”
This reveals entrusting to be the basis for entry [into the dharma].
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:24 pm

Admin_PC wrote:
Kyogyoshinsho - Chapter on Shinjin - FIVE GRAVE OFFENSES AND SLANDER OF THE DHARMA PASSAGES wrote:Question: What are the characteristics of slandering the right dharma?
I think we'll just need to kindly agree to disagree. About six months ago, I read Rev. Takamaro Shigaraki's book Heart of the Shin Buddhist Path, and it really helped to open my eyes about certain things, especially in terms of how later medieval commentators influenced the way Shinran's writings are commonly interpreted today.

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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Admin_PC » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:40 pm

A rather balanced critique of Shigaraki's A LIFE OF AWAKENING - The Heart of the Shin Buddhist Path
http://www.nembutsu.info/healsmith_shigaraki.htm

One of Shigaraki's last public appearances:
http://podcast.shin-ibs.edu/content/episode_61.mp3
Has a q&a that deals a lot with interpretations.

(FYI- I'm not arguing one position or another, just posting relevant passages to give more context)
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:23 am

Here's another thing that really resonated with me.

About a year ago, the Sensei at the local Jodo Shinshu temple led a meditation night that included zazen and walking meditation. Some students from the local university came to learn more about Buddhism. After the meditation service, the students asked him what the difference was between Shinshu and Zen. His answer was that Zen and Jodo Shinshu are the same.

I think he gave this answer for two reasons. Firstly, his family has been ministering temples for 500 years, and before they were Jodo Shinshu, they were actually a Zen family ministering Zen temples. The second reason is that he was looking at the matter from an ultimate perspective, in which Jodo Shinshu and Zen really are the same, despite external appearances.

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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Admin_PC » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:01 am

I have Rev Koshin Ogui's book "Zen Shin Talks", I should probably get around to reading it. Currently reading "The Daily Practices of Western Pureland Buddhism" by Thich Thien-Tam with commentary from Thich Hai-Quang, put out by Dharma Flower Temple.

Rev Koyo Kubose has a bunch of stories about Zen and Shin in his podcast, but one in particular mentions talking with the Zen teachers he was training with and how they spoke highly of Shin Buddhism - the nuances of Shinjin vs Kensho or Satori in Zen.
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:08 am

Admin_PC wrote:I have Rev Koshin Ogui's book "Zen Shin Talks", I should probably get around to reading it.
Thank you for your response. According to Rev. Ogui, some Zen masters pass away with the Nembutsu on their lips.

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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:29 pm

This is a concise history of the mixed practice of Zen and Pure Land:
The unified practice of Ch'an and Pure Land, known in Chinese as "Ch'an-ching I-chih," has a long history. As early as the 4th century C.E., Master Hui-Yuan (334-416), considered to the be first Pure Land Ancestor, incorporated meditative discipline into Pure Land practice.

Tao-HsinTao-Hsin (580-651), the Fourth Ancestor of the Ch'an school, taught what he called the "Samadhi of Oneness," utilizing the recitation of the Buddha's name to pacify the mind. It should be noted that since this practice involved reciting the name of any Buddha (a practice dating back to the origins of Buddhism) it was not specifically designed to produce rebirth in the Realm of Bliss, but it did act as a bridge linking Ch'an and Nien-Fo practices. Tao-Hsin taught that the Pure Mind is the Pure Buddha-Land.

The unified practice was also advocated by the Fifth Ch'an Ancestor Hung-Jen (601-674) who saw recitation as a good practice for beginners. Hung-Jen also advocated the visualization practices laid out in the Visualization Sutra.

Buddha recitation not concerned with rebirth was taught by a number of Hung-Jen's disciples including Fa-Chih (635-702), the Fourth Ancestor of the Ox-Head School of Ch'an. It was also put forth by the Ching-Chung School which was descended from Chih-Hsien, one of the Fifth Ch'an Ancestor's 10 eminent disciples, in the early 8th century C.E.

Descendants of Chih-hsien who advocated the unified practice included Wu-Hsiang, a former Korean prince who made invocational Nien-Fo practice a key part of the Dharma Transmission Ceremony. Although the practice was still not centered around Buddha Amitabha or rebirth in the Realm of Bliss, it marked the first time that Nien-Fo practice was explicitly adopted as part of a Ch'an school. Subsequent schools which taught Nien-Fo as part of their training included the Pao-T'ang School, the Hsuan-Shih Nien-Fo Ch'an School and the Nan-Shan Nien-Fo Ch'an School.

Ancestor Tz'u-Min (679-748) is said to have been the first Pure Land Ancestor to advocate harmonizing Pure Land practice and Ch'an. Tz'u-min developed his Pure Land faith after a pilgrimage to India, where he was inspired by stories centered around Buddha Amitabha and Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara.

The Ch'an Ancestor Pai-Chang Huai-Hai (720-814), who wrote the "20 Monastic Principles" which were the blueprint for Ch'an monastic practice, included "Recitation of the Name of Buddha Amitabha." Pai-Chang stated, "In religious practice, take Buddha Recitation as a sure method." The practice of chanting Amitabha's name during a Ch'an monk's funeral was also put forth by Master Pai-Chang.

The T'ang Hui-Ch'an Persecution (845 C.E.) and the Huei-Ch'ang and Shih-Tsung Persecutions of the late Chou Dynasty (10th century C.E.) served to bring Ch'an and Pure Land even closer together. These government crackdowns on Buddhist sects enervated the academically oriented Buddhist schools such as the T'ien-t'ai and Hua-yen sects. Correspondingly, the rise of Neo-Confucianism drew many speculative thinkers away from those schools. But the Ch'an and Pure Land schools, marked by their emphasis on practice, their extreme degree of portability and their non-reliance on Imperial patronage, survived intact. By this time, the Ch'an school had incorporated true Nien-Fo Amitabha practices into its training regimens, and the Pure Land school had incorporated more meditational elements into its own system.

The Ch'an monk and Pure Land practitioner Yung-Ming Yen-Shou (905-975) is said to have been the key figure in the synthesis of Ch'an and Pure Land during this period. He taught that the Pure Land is the Realm of the Purified Mind.
The unified practices were taught in Vietnam by the Thao-Duong School, founded by the Chinese monk Ts'ao-Tang, who was taken to Vietnam as a prisoner of war in 1069 C.E. Other eminent Chinese monks who promoted unified practice were Chu-Hung (1535-1615) and Han-Shan (1546-1623.)

During the 17th century C.E., the monk Yin-Yuan Lung-Chi, known as Obaku in Japanese, brought the unified Ch'an/Pure Land practice to Japan. His school is known as the Obaku Zen School, and survives to this day as a minor sect in the shadow of the much more influential Soto and Rinzai Zen sects.
http://www.cloudwater.org/index.php/pur ... d-practice

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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:11 pm

I'm sorry for ever giving the impression that one interpretation of Pure Land practice is better than another.

Whether you interpret Amida as a literal flesh and blood Buddha or as your own true nature, what matters is whatever gets you to recite the Nembutsu.

Whatever interpretation gets you to practice the Buddha's teachings in your day-to-day life is the right interpretation.

Dharma Flower
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:11 pm

Admin_PC wrote: These are the definitions of Faith in the context of Mahayana and Pure Land Buddhism. Now if you are saying these definitions are not the definition of faith you were criticizing, then why did you bring it up in the first place? (ie Why talk about dropping faith or ranking it after "works", when it would be assumed in the Mahayana context rather than whatever straw man you're imagining?)
I am sorry for giving the impression that I am somehow a moralist. While following the five precepts are important to my own personal life, this is because I want to have more joy and peace in my life, not because I believe that precepts are necessary for "earning" one's salvation.

I wish I followed the precepts better than I do now, but I already abstain from meat and intoxicants, which is common for Pure Land Buddhists in China and Taiwan to do.

shaunc
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by shaunc » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:32 am

Hi dharmaflower. What attracted me most to pureland buddhism and more specifically shin buddhism was how easy going and relaxed it was. Our salvation has been assured through the 18th vow of Amida.
If you choose to meditate and keep precepts that's entirely up to you, I do, but it Will make absolutely no difference to my salvation and eventual buddhahood.
That deal has already been done, it was done when I chose to take refuge in Amida's vow and his promise to deliver me and anyone else who wants to be reborn in his western pureland .
. We're all on the easy path, stop digging potholes for yourself.
Good luck and best wishes
Namu Amida Butsu

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emceecombs
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by emceecombs » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:42 am

shaunc wrote:Hi dharmaflower. What attracted me most to pureland buddhism and more specifically shin buddhism was how easy going and relaxed it was. Our salvation has been assured through the 18th vow of Amida.
If you choose to meditate and keep precepts that's entirely up to you, I do, but it Will make absolutely no difference to my salvation and eventual buddhahood.
I really like that about Shin Buddhism too. It can be easy to think that Pure Land in Japan and Shin specifically just don't teach/practice the 5 precepts at all. But really it is just more of a personal choice. IMO, rigidly sticking to rules, especially rules of morality, can lead to all sorts of problems such as self-righteousness, or on the other end of the spectrum, hopelessness and self-hate when you can't practice perfectly all of the time. The Shin emphasis on the 5 precepts as more of a personal choice, unconnected to salvation/enlightenment allows, imo, for a generally much healthier approach. That's not to say that the approaches of other traditions regarding the precepts are bad or that they ultimately will lead to the kinds of problems I mentioned, and any approach including the Shin approach could lead to problems if misinterpreted. It is all just a matter of what works for the practitioner.
Amituofo :anjali:

Dharma Flower
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:15 am

shaunc wrote: . We're all on the easy path, stop digging potholes for yourself.
Good luck and best wishes
Namu Amida Butsu
Thank you for your response. While Shinran taught the easy path, he also taught us to avoid licentiousness:
Dharma Flower wrote: In the words of Shinran Shonin, "It is deplorable that you have told people to abandon themselves to their hearts’ desires and to do anything they want. One must seek to cast off the evil of this world and to cease doing wretched deeds; this is what it means to reject the world and to live the Nembutsu."

shaunc
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by shaunc » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:20 pm

Dharma Flower wrote:
shaunc wrote: . We're all on the easy path, stop digging potholes for yourself.
Good luck and best wishes
Namu Amida Butsu
Thank you for your response. While Shinran taught the easy path, he also taught us to avoid licentiousness:
Dharma Flower wrote: In the words of Shinran Shonin, "It is deplorable that you have told people to abandon themselves to their hearts’ desires and to do anything they want. One must seek to cast off the evil of this world and to cease doing wretched deeds; this is what it means to reject the world and to live the Nembutsu."
I think that you're taking what I wrote out of context.
I don't believe that I encouraged licentiousness at all in my post. I'm merely pointing out that it's not necessary to practice self power methods to be saved by Amida.

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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:28 pm

shaunc wrote: I don't believe that I encouraged licentiousness at all in my post.
I'm sorry. I wasn't implying that you did. I was responding to one of the most common criticisms or concerns about Shinran's thought.

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emceecombs
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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by emceecombs » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:17 pm

Dharma Flower wrote:
shaunc wrote: I don't believe that I encouraged licentiousness at all in my post.
I'm sorry. I wasn't implying that you did. I was responding to one of the most common criticisms or concerns about Shinran's thought.
If I may say something, I think this is why you often end up in minor arguments (especially over semantics sometimes) with other Pure Landers on this forum. Your response is of course totally correct, but without clarifying what or to whom you are referring or responding to it seemed almost by default like it was in response to previous posters' comments, which can result in defensive reactions and attacks. In this case it seemed like you were referring to our approach to the 5 precepts as licentiousnous. If you take time to clarify beforehand that you are bringing up a completely different point or view, or whatever it is at the moment then you wouldn't have these frequent minor disagreements.
Amituofo :anjali:

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Re: What is Mixed Practice?

Post by Dharma Flower » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:53 pm

emceecombs wrote:In this case it seemed like you were referring to our approach to the 5 precepts as licentiousnous. If you take time to clarify beforehand that you are bringing up a completely different point or view, or whatever it is at the moment then you wouldn't have these frequent minor disagreements.
emceecombs wrote:If you take time to clarify beforehand that you are bringing up a completely different point or view, or whatever it is at the moment then you wouldn't have these frequent minor disagreements.
Thank you for your measured response.

I would just like to emphasize that, in traditionally Buddhist countries outside Japan, Pure Land Buddhists place more emphasis on following the five precepts, directing these practices toward rebirth in the Pure Land.

This is from the Infinite Life Sutra:
If, when I attain Buddhahood, sentient beings in the lands of the ten quarters who, having heard my Name, concentrate their thoughts on my land, plant roots of virtue, and sincerely transfer their merits towards my land with a desire to be born there, should not eventually fulfill their aspiration, may I not attain perfect Enlightenment.
http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/larger.html
This is from Shandao's parable of the two rivers and the white path:
The man proceeding on the path toward the West is comparable to one who directs all of his actions and practices toward the West[ern Paradise].
http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/shantao.html
Regardless of national or cultural tradition, these are all acceptable variations or expressions of Pure Land Buddhism. I don't mean to say that one is better than another.

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