Paul Roberts

Post Reply
User avatar
doublerepukken
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:42 am

Paul Roberts

Post by doublerepukken » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:22 pm

Does anyone know anything about Paul Roberts and the atrue Shin Buddhist group he ran (or maybe still does run?) to me it seems semi-cult like in that apparently he can validate or invalidate people's shinjin? This is just something I've heard so I'm not sure if it's true or not. But u have found some of his YouTube videos helpful.

Namu Amida Butsu
南無阿弥陀仏
なむ あみだ ぶつ
Namu Amida Butsu

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by jkarlins » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:41 pm

Vibe seems aggressive.

Some teachers are not for me. Some teachers are tough.

I can't vouch for him, or state that he is wrong. I don't know. But that's my impression.

Jake

User avatar
Ayu
Former staff member
Posts: 6785
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Ayu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:07 pm

I couldn't find anything controversial about him via net-search. Also, there's nothing about him on the websites I know who list controversial teachers.
Vibes (positive or negative) can be very different in meatspace or video.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

User avatar
Monlam Tharchin
Posts: 1539
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:37 pm

Don't worry about politics. They happen in Dharma groups, too.

The issues Paul Roberts and others like him have is the interpretation of Pure Land teachings found in some modern Shin works. A very ample thread on the topic can be found here. Roberts "validating" others' shinjin seems like polemics from his detractors, as it is inconsistent with the writings of his I've read, or those of Rev. Josho.

I do not personally like the idea of closed groups such as his, but to each his own. Everyone has a reason.

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by jkarlins » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:11 pm

Ayu wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:07 pm
I couldn't find anything controversial about him via net-search. Also, there's nothing about him on the websites I know who list controversial teachers.
Vibes (positive or negative) can be very different in meatspace or video.
Agreed.

Jake

User avatar
doublerepukken
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:42 am

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by doublerepukken » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:36 pm

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:37 pm
Don't worry about politics. They happen in Dharma groups, too.

The issues Paul Roberts and others like him have is the interpretation of Pure Land teachings found in some modern Shin works. A very ample thread on the topic can be found here. Roberts "validating" others' shinjin seems like polemics from his detractors, as it is inconsistent with the writings of his I've read, or those of Rev. Josho.

I do not personally like the idea of closed groups such as his, but to each his own. Everyone has a reason.
Monlam, agreed he seems like a good enough teacher. Josho on the other hand (I am friends with him on Facebook) regularly advocates the deportation of all Muslims from Europe and makes some pretty lewd jokes. I'm not perfect myself and not to get all political but I don't really feel like these are good positions for a Buddhist lol

Namu Amida Butsu
南無阿弥陀仏
なむ あみだ ぶつ
Namu Amida Butsu

User avatar
Monlam Tharchin
Posts: 1539
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:48 pm

Regardless, he has some really lovely writings on faith in Buddhism as distinguished from faith/doubt as it is commonly understood for those in a Christian culture. I can share some links if interested.
I also found him very helpful in some email exchanges.

I think the DW thread I linked to is fairly illuminating on this specific issue, though it is long. Astus has a keen mind for getting to the root of the matter, and shared his direct correspondence with Alfred Bloom (now deceased) on various points of contention between Shin and the "true Shin" thinkers.

User avatar
doublerepukken
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:42 am

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by doublerepukken » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:03 pm

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:48 pm
Regardless, he has some really lovely writings on faith in Buddhism as distinguished from faith/doubt as it is commonly understood for those in a Christian culture. I can share some links if interested.
I also found him very helpful in some email exchanges.

I think the DW thread I linked to is fairly illuminating on this specific issue, though it is long. Astus has a keen mind for getting to the root of the matter, and shared his direct correspondence with Alfred Bloom (now deceased) on various points of contention between Shin and the "true Shin" thinkers.
Yes I'd be very interested in those links! I was raised in a pretty radical political environment so these things kinda stick out to me, it's something I'm learning not to be AS judgmental about, like not totally disregarding what someone says because of their beliefs about certain things.

Namu Amida Butsu
南無阿弥陀仏
なむ あみだ ぶつ
Namu Amida Butsu

User avatar
Monlam Tharchin
Posts: 1539
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:38 pm

Especially for those within Shin Buddhism, his articles "Faith is simple, nothing special" and "Depend on Amida, not on your feelings" are very poignant.

If you want more reading, searching his blog for "faith" will produce several other good entries: http://amida-ji-retreat-temple-romania. ... h/?q=faith

We're a bit off-topic now!

User avatar
doublerepukken
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:42 am

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by doublerepukken » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:44 pm

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:38 pm
Especially for those within Shin Buddhism, his articles "Faith is simple, nothing special" and "Depend on Amida, not on your feelings" are very poignant.

If you want more reading, searching his blog for "faith" will produce several other good entries: http://amida-ji-retreat-temple-romania. ... h/?q=faith

We're a bit off-topic now!
LOL, yeah its cool (I think). Shin is the type of Pure Land that seems the most interesting to me, but I haven't really tried out other types other than the Japanese variety. I was turned off by some Chinese and Vietnamese teachers I heard because of their views on homosexuality. One of the reasons I left Christianity was because my sister was not accepted in that faith community because of sexual preference (unless she stopped actively loving the person she did) which I thought was ludicrous. Its more cultural a thing than anything else, but I don't think I could learn from someone that I knew had those views. I haven't seen the same thing in Japanese Buddhism, so far anyway.

But to stay on topic, Paul Roberts seems like a cool guy = ) lol

Namu Amida Butsu
南無阿弥陀仏
なむ あみだ ぶつ
Namu Amida Butsu

User avatar
Admin_PC
Site Admin
Posts: 3956
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Admin_PC » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:56 pm

Those guys (Paul Roberts et al) post a lot of good resources. I understand why they do what they do, and doctrinally I'm not sure I really have any issues with them, but some of the rhetoric is not really my cup of tea.

This is actually the first I'm hearing of Josho Adrian Cirlea and the comments on Muslims or the lewd jokes. He posted a revised translation of Genshin's Ojoyoshu that I've found handy. He's been posting on the 4 thoughts that turn the mind toward Amitabha - which I kind of find to be a reappropriation of Tibetan Buddhist teachings. I first learned about him from his actions at a European Shin conference a while back, so I guess I've always known that he has no fear of controversy.
月影の いたらぬ里は なけれども 眺むる人の 心にぞすむ
法然上人

User avatar
Cyrus
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Cyrus » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:05 pm

My experience with Paul Roberts has been very positive.
About a half year ago while I was caring for my mother who has suffering from cancer I contacted him after watching some dharma talks he has posted on YouTube.
I asked him for advise as I was in the process of trying to provide guidance to my mother in the final period of her illness.
My main objective was to familiarize her mindstream with the energy of blessing from the Buddha Amitabha and Paul's reply was very deep, thoughtful and inspirational.
It was of great help to my mother and she was touched by it and completely understood what he meant.

Paul can come on strong but only because he wants to eradicate any misunderstandings that exist about Shinran's teachings especially within the modernist context of contemporary Shinshu teachings.
He recognizes he does have a intense way of conveying his message as he is a born and raised New Yorker and certainly has that Big Apple way of talking.

The people that I have met in the short period of time I spent in their online sangha were all very pleasant and very kind.
Allot of poetic creativity is expressed in writings to praise the inconceivable compassion of the Buddha Amitabha for us beings wandering in samsara.
All in all, I would say the True Shin Buddhism online sangha are providing a very valuable service to people all over the world to easily connect with the Amida Dharma and to provide them with guidance.

Old tyme hockey
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:50 am

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Old tyme hockey » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:40 am

doublerepukken wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:22 pm
Does anyone know anything about Paul Roberts and the atrue Shin Buddhist group he ran (or maybe still does run?) to me it seems semi-cult like in that apparently he can validate or invalidate people's shinjin? This is just something I've heard so I'm not sure if it's true or not. But u have found some of his YouTube videos helpful.

Namu Amida Butsu
My impression is that he is a very good teacher of the dharma ,straightforward and very helpful. I dont agree that he is a cult leader.He acctually says to people who has doubts, that they should try own power practices, and when they fail, turn to Amida buddha. And i have never heard him slag off other buddhist paths or claim to be a guru or the like. Which is more than you can say about many other buddhist leaders today. Namu Amida Butsu

User avatar
doublerepukken
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:42 am

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by doublerepukken » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:17 pm

I have contacted Paul and he is actually a really great guy, agreed he is an excellent dharma teacher

Gassho
南無阿弥陀仏
なむ あみだ ぶつ
Namu Amida Butsu

User avatar
Admin_PC
Site Admin
Posts: 3956
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Admin_PC » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:46 pm

Cyrus wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:05 pm
My experience with Paul Roberts has been very positive.
That's great to hear that he was so kind!
The people that I have met in the short period of time I spent in their online sangha were all very pleasant and very kind.
I should really spend more time reading through the mailing list digest emails that I get from those guys.
月影の いたらぬ里は なけれども 眺むる人の 心にぞすむ
法然上人

steveb1
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by steveb1 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:44 am

I think that Paul Roberts is a genuine teacher of the Shin way. Not a cult leader. He refers everything back to Honen, Shinran and Rennyo, not to his own thinking. He doesn't invalidate Shin, but he does point out when people's words and ideas stray from "true Shin Buddhism".

Yuren
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:39 am

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Yuren » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:52 pm

He's a genuine person. He's not a cult leader or anything like that. I was learning from him for some time, but we got into an argument and stopped talking since. I think sometimes he tries to stress the difference between Jodo Shinshu and other schools too much, to the point of saying that Jodo Shinshu is not Mahayana, or that there's no Bodhicitta in Shinshu --- which is directly contradicted by the writings of Shinran.

User avatar
Admin_PC
Site Admin
Posts: 3956
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Paul Roberts

Post by Admin_PC » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:40 am

This is especially true when you consider that one of the actual purposes behind the writing of the Kyogyoshinsho was to address the criticism against Honen that he dismissed the idea of bodhicitta (attributed to Myoei, Shinran’s Shinjin being bodhicitta in the receptive sense).
月影の いたらぬ里は なけれども 眺むる人の 心にぞすむ
法然上人

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests