Dear brothers and sisters,
i'd like to know your opinion about the critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality or our responsability to change ourselves and this world where we live now
_/\_
Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
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mansurhirbi87
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
There are different Pure Land Schools, different emphasis, so, a lot depends on what the criticism is.
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EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Re: Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
Taking refuge in Amitabha is this deluded mind taking refuge in the Three Jewels.
Pure Land is also not separate from Mahayana.
Pure Land is also not separate from Mahayana.
Namu Amida Butsu
Re: Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
If we can’t save ourselves, how are we expected to save others?
Pure Land has a high bar on what it means to save oneself. Merely putting on appearances of being good; without penetrating wisdom and infinite, naturally-emanating compassion is not good enough to escape Samsara, let alone to rescue others. Pure Land practice is for those acutely aware of these limitations. Pure Landers go to the Pure Land precisely to gain the requisite abilities & guidance for rescuing others.
Pure Land has a high bar on what it means to save oneself. Merely putting on appearances of being good; without penetrating wisdom and infinite, naturally-emanating compassion is not good enough to escape Samsara, let alone to rescue others. Pure Land practice is for those acutely aware of these limitations. Pure Landers go to the Pure Land precisely to gain the requisite abilities & guidance for rescuing others.
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
The goal of Mahayana and Vajrayana is to Empty Samsara completely.mansurhirbi87 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:27 pm Dear brothers and sisters,
i'd like to know your opinion about the critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality or our responsability to change ourselves and this world where we live now
_/\_
Re: Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
Mansurhibi
Pure Land Buddhism is very good. This is especially based on Amitabha's vow. Amitahba is a Bodhisattva who became a Buddha; and there are many vows which he made.
Most especially,
the 18th-20th vows.
[18] If I should attain Buddhahood, yet sentient beings of the ten directions who aspire to be reborn in my land with wholehearted faith and joy, even having just ten thoughts [of my name], would not be reborn there, may I not attain perfect enlightenment. The only exceptions are those who have committed the five great violations and those who have slandered the right Dharma.
[19] If I should attain Buddhahood, sentient beings of the ten directions would generate the bodhi mind, cultivate various virtues, and wholeheartedly vow to be reborn in my land. If at the end of their lives, I would not appear before them, surrounded by a great assembly, may I not attain perfect enlightenment.
[20] If I should attain Buddhahood, yet sentient beings who hear my name, concentrate their thoughts continuously on my land, cultivate all roots of virtue, and wholeheartedly dedicate the virtue toward their aspiration to be reborn in my land would not fulfill their wishes, may I not attain perfect enlightenment.
So the two main practices of Pure Land Buddhism are -- 1, chanting Amitabha's name, and 2, remembering Amitbha Buddha.
In Chinese the mantra is Namo Amituofo for this; and in Japan they say Namu-Amida-Butsu.
There are many poems of people and saints. . . .
Some say that all of this world and all of the universe is the Pure Land, this is very beautiful;
The poet named "Ippen" writes along these.
So --- there are Sutras in Mahayana and especially the Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra is very beautiful.
In the beginning of this Sutra, Buddha explains about this, the Pure Land. In the beginning of this Sutra, he shows the universe as it really is -- full of beautiful gems, Light.
His disciple asks why the world does not appear as clean -- as pure and beautiful; and Buddha shows this.
His disciple said -- This world is full of thorns; and earth and mountains and hills which are all unclean.
Buddha said, "Because your mind is up and down and disagrees with the Buddha-wisdom, you see that this land is unclean. Sariputra, because a Bodhisattva is impartial towards all living beings and his profound mind is pure and clean in accord with the Buddha Dharma, he can see that this Buddha land is (also) pure and clean."
And this point Buddha revealed the beautiful Pure Land.
Pure Land Buddhism is very good. This is especially based on Amitabha's vow. Amitahba is a Bodhisattva who became a Buddha; and there are many vows which he made.
Most especially,
the 18th-20th vows.
[18] If I should attain Buddhahood, yet sentient beings of the ten directions who aspire to be reborn in my land with wholehearted faith and joy, even having just ten thoughts [of my name], would not be reborn there, may I not attain perfect enlightenment. The only exceptions are those who have committed the five great violations and those who have slandered the right Dharma.
[19] If I should attain Buddhahood, sentient beings of the ten directions would generate the bodhi mind, cultivate various virtues, and wholeheartedly vow to be reborn in my land. If at the end of their lives, I would not appear before them, surrounded by a great assembly, may I not attain perfect enlightenment.
[20] If I should attain Buddhahood, yet sentient beings who hear my name, concentrate their thoughts continuously on my land, cultivate all roots of virtue, and wholeheartedly dedicate the virtue toward their aspiration to be reborn in my land would not fulfill their wishes, may I not attain perfect enlightenment.
So the two main practices of Pure Land Buddhism are -- 1, chanting Amitabha's name, and 2, remembering Amitbha Buddha.
In Chinese the mantra is Namo Amituofo for this; and in Japan they say Namu-Amida-Butsu.
There are many poems of people and saints. . . .
Some say that all of this world and all of the universe is the Pure Land, this is very beautiful;
The poet named "Ippen" writes along these.
So --- there are Sutras in Mahayana and especially the Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra is very beautiful.
In the beginning of this Sutra, Buddha explains about this, the Pure Land. In the beginning of this Sutra, he shows the universe as it really is -- full of beautiful gems, Light.
His disciple asks why the world does not appear as clean -- as pure and beautiful; and Buddha shows this.
His disciple said -- This world is full of thorns; and earth and mountains and hills which are all unclean.
Buddha said, "Because your mind is up and down and disagrees with the Buddha-wisdom, you see that this land is unclean. Sariputra, because a Bodhisattva is impartial towards all living beings and his profound mind is pure and clean in accord with the Buddha Dharma, he can see that this Buddha land is (also) pure and clean."
And this point Buddha revealed the beautiful Pure Land.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha
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mansurhirbi87
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Re: Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
thank you, brothers.
i'm pondering about your answers
_/\_
i'm pondering about your answers
_/\_
Re: Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
I have had the same concern myself, with all this focus on rebirth in the Pure Land... is this a form of escapism of this life?Well, it is a form of escapism, though not in the negative sense of the world. From the Buddhist perspective, WE ARE TRAPPED. We are in a prison called Samsara- cyclical rebirth. and getting out of this is 1,000,000,000 times more important then ANY goal pertaining to this life.
That is just straight old fashioned Buddha-Dharma. To free of us from ALL suffering, i,e. from Samsara.
It is also an escape from the delusion of self-power/gradual progression paths. Most Buddhist paths, and most spiritual paths posit this myth of gradual progression, that only time we will become more and more pure until we reach enlightenment.
Shin Buddhism, both Jodo Shu and Jodo Shinshu completely deny the validity of this view- going so far as to say, on this earth, at this time, NO-ONE can liberate themselves.
Ok that was a bit of wordplay... and no it is not escapist. It is the opposite, it is a tradition for designed for common people to "practice" as they go through their lives, without the need for monkhood, hence the opposite of escapist.I made a video response to your question- and filled in a few more details: https://youtu.be/bBP0Wn6YNMU
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well wisher
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Re: Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
This statement rings very true, at least to me.
I believe Pureland is one of the best SOLUTION available to us, and a noble goal to strive for, making us better persons in the progress.
It is not just about an escape when it provides one of the best answer possible, toward solving the question of sufferings and samsara,
A simple observation of your own current human life environment, will easily show you the imperfections and suffering conditions of our human world. Like limited food resources, uncomfortable weather conditions, not getting what one wants, relentless desires about money and material goods ....etc.
But when one practices towards the goal of the noble Buddhas pure-lands, such as nembetsu/nianfo/Buddha names/Sutra recitals,
one does not commit any harmful / bad deeds in the interim, and avoid getting stuck in the relentless thoughts of sufferings.
So how can something so beneficial be considered as "just an escape"? They are solutions instead!
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Critic to pure land buddhism as a way of scape reality
There are two ways that Pure Land practice can be approached,
regardless of the tradition, and regardless of whether one is relying more on self-power or other power.
Both approaches are valid.
There is an "ordinary approach", which regards rebirth in Amitabha's Pure Land as occurring at the time of
the death of this experience we have as the continuity we think of as "my lifetime."
When the physical body begins to dissolve into the basic elements and root consciousness, propelled by karma, is reborn.
There is also a "profound approach" which doesn't contradict the ordinary approach, but which also regards rebirth as a constant, continuing process.
For example, every minute, millions of your body's cells die and new ones are born; every seven years, all of your body's cells have died and you have already taken on a new body. The mind? It is changing constantly. The "self" is a total illusion. If you are 21 years old, "You" have already died and taken rebirth in Samsara three times!
Within this context, reciting the name (Amida Butsu, Omito Fo, Amitabha, etc.) has a perpetually transforming effect. while still wandering in Samsara, you are no longer taking refuge in ordinary, limited mind, but in in Amitabha, which is the Buddha of Infinite Light (and Amitayus, infinite life).
You are constantly taking refuge in Amitabha, which is the realization of the mind's true nature, which is both empty of any limiting or defining characteristics, and also luminous, meaning that its essence is awareness.
If Amiitabha is infinite, how can you put a fence or wall around Sukhavati (Pure Land)? The western paradise must extend all the way to the tip your nose, and beyond that. Everything is Pure Land. The true nature of all beings is Buddha.
This isn't escaping reality. This is escaping confusion. Waking up.
The whole point of Buddha's teaching is waking up.
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regardless of the tradition, and regardless of whether one is relying more on self-power or other power.
Both approaches are valid.
There is an "ordinary approach", which regards rebirth in Amitabha's Pure Land as occurring at the time of
the death of this experience we have as the continuity we think of as "my lifetime."
When the physical body begins to dissolve into the basic elements and root consciousness, propelled by karma, is reborn.
There is also a "profound approach" which doesn't contradict the ordinary approach, but which also regards rebirth as a constant, continuing process.
For example, every minute, millions of your body's cells die and new ones are born; every seven years, all of your body's cells have died and you have already taken on a new body. The mind? It is changing constantly. The "self" is a total illusion. If you are 21 years old, "You" have already died and taken rebirth in Samsara three times!
Within this context, reciting the name (Amida Butsu, Omito Fo, Amitabha, etc.) has a perpetually transforming effect. while still wandering in Samsara, you are no longer taking refuge in ordinary, limited mind, but in in Amitabha, which is the Buddha of Infinite Light (and Amitayus, infinite life).
You are constantly taking refuge in Amitabha, which is the realization of the mind's true nature, which is both empty of any limiting or defining characteristics, and also luminous, meaning that its essence is awareness.
If Amiitabha is infinite, how can you put a fence or wall around Sukhavati (Pure Land)? The western paradise must extend all the way to the tip your nose, and beyond that. Everything is Pure Land. The true nature of all beings is Buddha.
This isn't escaping reality. This is escaping confusion. Waking up.
The whole point of Buddha's teaching is waking up.
.
.
.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.