Is the Pure Land an actual place?

bcol01
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Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by bcol01 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:37 am

I'm new to Pure Land.

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明安 Myoan
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by 明安 Myoan » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:37 am

Welcome.
This is a realm with characteristics of delusion and suffering. The Pure Land is a buddha-field with characteristics of Amida's 48 Vows and bliss.
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

The Fundamental Vow [of Amitabha Buddha] is just for such people as woodcutters and grassgatherers, vegetable pickers, drawers of water and the like, illiterate folk who merely recite the Buddha's name wholeheartedly, confident that as a result of saying "Namu Amida Butsu" they will be born into the western land. -- Master Hōnen

vikas113
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by vikas113 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:24 am

Yes it is a definite place like our Earth.

Buddhist sutras describe planets and worlds system apart from our Earth where different types of living beings exist.

Our Earth is one such planet where the Buddha Sakyamuni was born and attained bodhi.
There are also such planets like Sukhavati where there is Buddha Amitabha who as attained Buddhahood just like our Sakyamuni Buddha.

Apart from that there is Abhirati where Buddha Akshobhya is the Buddha, There is Pure Vaidurya where Buddha Bhaisajyaguru Vaidurya Prabha Raja is the Buddha and many such planets in all the directions of the universe.

Be without doubt friend, the pureland exists in reality. Buddha never speak lies, They never deceive sentient beings suffering in the Samsara.

You should definitely follow the pureland teaching of repeating 'Namo Amitabha Buddha' with faith and sincerity and you will without fail be born in the pureland and see Buddha Amitabha and enjoy the wonderful pleasures of that world.

Here are some animated videos based on real life stories of those who followed pureland practice. Chant Buddha's Name

bcol01
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by bcol01 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:01 pm

Thank you for your help. I hear that chanting the Nembutsu is good for your health, good luck, etc too.
vikas113 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:24 am
Yes it is a definite place like our Earth.

Buddhist sutras describe planets and worlds system apart from our Earth where different types of living beings exist.

Our Earth is one such planet where the Buddha Sakyamuni was born and attained bodhi.
There are also such planets like Sukhavati where there is Buddha Amitabha who as attained Buddhahood just like our Sakyamuni Buddha.

Apart from that there is Abhirati where Buddha Akshobhya is the Buddha, There is Pure Vaidurya where Buddha Bhaisajyaguru Vaidurya Prabha Raja is the Buddha and many such planets in all the directions of the universe.

Be without doubt friend, the pureland exists in reality. Buddha never speak lies, They never deceive sentient beings suffering in the Samsara.

You should definitely follow the pureland teaching of repeating 'Namo Amitabha Buddha' with faith and sincerity and you will without fail be born in the pureland and see Buddha Amitabha and enjoy the wonderful pleasures of that world.

Here are some animated videos based on real life stories of those who followed pureland practice. Chant Buddha's Name

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ryan_oliveira
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by ryan_oliveira » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:20 pm

Yes for sure.

There is no doubt that pure land exists.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:17 pm

By "actual" do you mean in the same way that you actually exist?
How do you actually exist?
.
.
.
Profile Picture: "The Fo Ming (Buddha Bright) Monk"
People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:26 pm

Pssht. What's an actual place?
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

tatpurusa
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by tatpurusa » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:03 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:37 am
I'm new to Pure Land.
See "What is Mount Meru?"
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=31665

Next question: is the opinion of scientists really that relevant?

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Grigoris
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:38 am

Let us not take this discussion off-topic too.

Since it is in a Pure Land forum, let the answers be from scripture and commentary.

Any off-topic posts will be removed.

If you want to compare science to Buddhism then use the discussion that tatpurusa linked to.

Thank you.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:51 pm

Here is one of the three major Pure Land sutras:

https://lapislazulitexts.com/shorter_su ... sutra.html
Glorious one, creator of all goodness, Mañjuśrī, his glorious eminence!
Manjushri-namasamgiti

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明安 Myoan
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by 明安 Myoan » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:13 pm

BDK has made their translation of the Three Pure Land Sutras available for free online . (click PDF download).

Other important works are likewise freely available on their site.

:reading:
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

The Fundamental Vow [of Amitabha Buddha] is just for such people as woodcutters and grassgatherers, vegetable pickers, drawers of water and the like, illiterate folk who merely recite the Buddha's name wholeheartedly, confident that as a result of saying "Namu Amida Butsu" they will be born into the western land. -- Master Hōnen

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rory
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by rory » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:22 am

this post isn't for Pure Land beginners , but for those who have an interest this quote is from the Robert F. Rhodes's book on Genshin: Genshin's Ojoyoshu and the Construction of Pure Land Discourse in Heian Japan

Genshin was the famous Pure Land Master in the Tendai sect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genshin
Even while remaining mindful (of the buddha) by reciting his name and seeking the Pure Land, contemplate (it in the following way ): {Amida's) body and land are ultimately empty, like mirages or dreams. (Although )they are identical with their substance, they are empty. While empty, they exist. They are neither existent nor empty. To realize this non-duality and truly enter the supreme truth - this is called the markless nenbutsu. This is the supreme samadhi p. 136
again:
However, as noted several times in this volume,the understanding of the nenbutsu underwent radical transformation with the appearance of Honen's exclusive nenbutsu movement in the early Kamakura period. p.299
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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Caoimhghín
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by Caoimhghín » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:23 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:37 am
I'm new to Pure Land.
Your mind is a place, therefore wherever you find a mind is a place. If there are minds "in" the Pure Land, how can it not be a place?
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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rory
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by rory » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:00 am

Caoimhghín wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:23 pm
bcol01 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:37 am
I'm new to Pure Land.
Your mind is a place, therefore wherever you find a mind is a place. If there are minds "in" the Pure Land, how can it not be a place?
what you and Johnny D are doing isn't really helpful to someone just starting to learn about Pure Land. I'd suggest he read the great Chinese Master Zhiyi's [Chih-I]work
"Ten Doubts on the Pure Land"
here is the link for the download
viewtopic.php?t=23235
When the Buddhas preach, they usually rely on the Two Truths38 [ultimate and conventional]. They do not destroy the fictitious, provisional identities of phenomena while revealing their true characteristics.That is why the wise, while earnestly striving for rebirth in the Pure Land, also understand that the nature of rebirth is intrinsically empty. This is true Non-Birth, and also the meaning of “only when the Mind is pure, will the Buddha lands be pure
p26

It really helped me begin to understand Pure Land. I hope others here benefit from it!
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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arrau76
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by arrau76 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:40 pm

Yes, the Western Pure Land ( "Sukhavati" in Sanskrit, "Land of Bliss") is an actual place, and Amitabha is a real Buddha teaching the Dharma in His Land, now.
Take a look at the free ebooks by Rev. Josho Adrian Cirlea (Jodo Shin Shu), they are very interesting and clear.
Namo Amitabha!

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Caoimhghín
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by Caoimhghín » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:11 am

rory wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:00 am
Caoimhghín wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:23 pm
bcol01 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:37 am
I'm new to Pure Land.
Your mind is a place, therefore wherever you find a mind is a place. If there are minds "in" the Pure Land, how can it not be a place?
what you and Johnny D are doing isn't really helpful to someone just starting to learn about Pure Land.
Would you care to elaborate which choice(s) of words precisely weren't helpful? That would give us some more constructive feedback so we know not to repeat this error.

:anjali:
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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Caoimhghín
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by Caoimhghín » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:48 am

Caoimhghín wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:11 am
rory wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:00 am
Caoimhghín wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:23 pm


Your mind is a place, therefore wherever you find a mind is a place. If there are minds "in" the Pure Land, how can it not be a place?
what you and Johnny D are doing isn't really helpful to someone just starting to learn about Pure Land.
Would you care to elaborate which choice(s) of words precisely weren't helpful? That would give us some more constructive feedback so we know not to repeat this error.
I want to thank you for your post, because I considered my statement you responded to, namely "your mind is a place," as self-evident.

This lead to a lively debate with my spouse on terms of whether or not "thoughts" are a manifestation of the mind or a product of the mind seperate from the mind that the mind "observes" as it's primary function. In short, does the mind produce only mind, or does it produce something unlike itself.

It is a pleasantly upsetting thing to learn that something you thought of as self-evident isn't, and might in fact be a doctrinal point. So, I thank you for questioning my above post.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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SonamTashi
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by SonamTashi » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:59 am

Caoimhghín wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:48 am
Caoimhghín wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:11 am
rory wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:00 am


what you and Johnny D are doing isn't really helpful to someone just starting to learn about Pure Land.
Would you care to elaborate which choice(s) of words precisely weren't helpful? That would give us some more constructive feedback so we know not to repeat this error.
I want to thank you for your post, because I considered my statement you responded to, namely "your mind is a place," as self-evident.

This lead to a lively debate with my spouse on terms of whether or not "thoughts" are a manifestation of the mind or a product of the mind seperate from the mind that the mind "observes" as it's primary function. In short, does the mind produce only mind, or does it produce something unlike itself.

It is a pleasantly upsetting thing to learn that something you thought of as self-evident isn't, and might in fact be a doctrinal point. So, I thank you for questioning my above post.
It probably depends on the school, but I don't think this idea is necessarily wrong. For example, without getting too far off subject (and I promise I'll bring this back to a Pure Land perspective so it won't be totally off topic), from a Dzogchen perspective you would distinguish between mind and the nature of mind, where the mind is our thought process, flow of discursive thoughts, and in short Samsara, but the nature of mind is beyond these things.

If you approach Pure Land from a Mind Only perspective (and Yogacara has had a huge impact on Pure Land thought), then everything is a manifestation of mind; in fact this is the fundamental perspective of the Mind Only School. Wisdom/insight and enlightenment is the manifestation of Pure Mind while delusion is a manifestation of the Impure Mind. An old post on this forum contains this quote from Chu-Hung:

Mind equals objects: there are no objects beyond mind. Objects equal mind: there is no mind beyond objects. Since objects are wholly mind, why must we cling to mind and dismiss objects? Those who dismiss objects when they talk of mind have not comprehended mind...

Let me ask [the person who thinks Pure Land is mind-only], “When hell appears to you at the moment of death, is this not mind? “ “It is mind.” “Does the person fall into hell?” “Yes, he falls into hell.” “Then it is obvious that since the person falls into hell, hell exists. Is it then only the Pure Land that does not exist? When the mind manifests hell, the person falls into a hell that really exists. When the mind manifests the Pure Land, isn’t the person born in a Pure Land that really exists?” As the saying goes:

Better you should speak of existence on the scale of the polar mountain, than to speak of nonexistence to the extent of a mustard seed.
:bow: :buddha1: :bow: :anjali: :meditate:

Bodhisattva509
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by Bodhisattva509 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:20 am

Shinran, like Tanluan and Shandao, taught that the Pure Land is the formless realm of Nirvana. It is therefore beyond time and space.

Bodhisattva509
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Re: Is the Pure Land an actual place?

Post by Bodhisattva509 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:47 am

vikas113 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:24 am
Be without doubt friend, the pureland exists in reality. Buddha never speak lies, They never deceive sentient beings suffering in the Samsara.
While the Buddha never spoke lies, he did make a distinction between provisional truth and ultimate truth.
On the ultimate level, only the Dharma-body in its aspect as emptiness of inherent existence or the non-dual nature of consciousness is real; the Transformation- and Enjoyment-bodies…are provisional ways of talking about and apprehending it.

The real nature of a Tathāgata cannot be seen by seeing his physical form, as ‘Tathāgatas have the Dharma as their body’… Transformation- and Enjoyment-body Buddhas, Pure Lands, and high-level Bodhisattvas, then, are not truly real: any more than the book you are now reading or the eyes with which you read it!

In emptiness, nothing stands out with separate reality. At the conventional level of truth, however, such Buddhas, etc. are just as real as anything else. Indeed in popular Mahāyāna practice, the Enjoyment-body Buddhas and advanced Bodhisattvas are treated as wholly real, and rebirth in their Pure Lands is ardently sought through faith.

The rather disconcerting feeling generated by switching between ultimate and conventional truth is nicely captured in an explanation given by a Chinese recluse to John Blofeld, in which he also draws on the Chinese idea of ‘One Mind’ (see p. 145):
‘Believe me, the Bodhisattvas are as real as earth and sky, and have infinite power to aid beings in distress, but they exist within our common mind, which, to speak the truth, is itself the container of earth and sky’ (Blofeld, 1987: 151).

From the conventional perspective, the high-level Bodhisattvas and heavenly Buddhas (like Amitabha and Avalokitesvara) are those who have heroically striven to be close to, or attained to, Buddhahood.

From the ultimate perspective, they are the symbolic forms in which the ‘minds’ of empty ‘beings’ perceive the Dharma-body, the all-encompassing totality which is the Dharma-realm described in the Avatamsaka Sūtra.
https://books.google.com/books?id=u0sg9 ... &q&f=false

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