greentara wrote:PadmaVonSamba wrote:"Perhaps what shel suggests is that devotion is inherently mindless,
or that it strips away critical thinking automatically.
I prefer to think of devotion to a teacher
the way opponents regard each other in a chess game"
What if you meet a teacher that's effulgent? Few of us have been that lucky.
We can all get trapped with the intellectual chatter going on in our head; a chess game is based on strategy.....so are you trying to outsmart the teacher? If you're more articulate and studied more sutras maybe you can, but thats got nothing to do with awakening.
And then what I said was,
I don't mean that one is trying to compete,
but that one has the highest respect for,
and only wants that interaction
from which (one) is challenged, and becomes better.
One's wits are not dulled. One doesn't become a robot,
but thinking becomes sharper. And then. beyond that.
Chess opponents are often the best of friends.
No, my point is that you bring total honesty to the teacher.
It wasn't really about intellectualism.
My point is that if you are totally honest with yourself,
you will bring that honesty to your teacher as well
and a fake teacher won't be able to hurt you through that
(the topic being abuse etc.)
If you just nod and say "oh yes -- everything you say must be true
because you are effulgent(I had to look that word up)
because of your radiant glow..."
If that is enough, that's fine. Some people can get by on that. And I'm glad for them. But I can't.
If a person has doubts and yet they convince themselves that they don't have doubts,
and just get off on the vibe,
not only is that presenting Bullsh*t to the teacher,
but that is what invites a fake teacher to take advantage of a person,
and a genuine teacher will see right through it.
I think I know what you mean, though.
having an intellectual debate has nothing to do with awakening.
There are teachers who actually make the whole area around them glow.
it's like they open a magic window, the light comes in,
and say "here's what it's really all about"
and if a person has never seen that, hopefully some day they will.