Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

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Jesse
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Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Jesse » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:22 pm

This has to be about the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Yale students are totally for repealing the first amendment in order to 'create a safespace' where no one's feelings get hurt. What the hell is wrong with kids these days?

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Malcolm
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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:28 pm

Jesse wrote:This has to be about the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Yale students are totally for repealing the first amendment in order to 'create a safespace' where no one's feelings get hurt. What the hell is wrong with kids these days?

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You do realize that Ami Horowitz is a right wing satirist?

Jesse
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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Jesse » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:35 pm

No idea who he is, but I'm pretty sure the petition actually happened and was not scripted.

edit: apparently the responses were cherrypicked, but they were also still gathered in under an hour. So even for cherry picking, 50 signatures in one hour to repeal the first amendment is pretty bad.
http://fox61.com/2015/12/16/yale-studen ... satirical/
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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Queequeg » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:39 pm

Jesse wrote:This has to be about the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Yale students are totally for repealing the first amendment in order to 'create a safespace' where no one's feelings get hurt. What the hell is wrong with kids these days?

phpBB [video]
Those kids clearly never had civics class. Hey! Nothing like that education of the high born!

But, really, those folks at Yale - they'll go to their jobs at Goldman or Google and live happily ever after completely insulated from ever needing the Bill of Rights to protect them. First Amendment? PshhhaH I've got Amazon Prime, b--hes!!

To be fair, the reporter is doing a "gotcha" on dumb kids who think its cool just to be iconoclasts, even if that means contorting into complete imbecility.

I first encountered this safe-space stuff back in college in the 90s. It makes sense. Its like AA, or any other support group environment. I remember it was LGBTQ community who made the most of it, and that was understandable for these kids who were for the first time feeling open enough to be who they felt on the inside. They needed a non-judgmental environment to explore their identity.

The problem is when these kids start trying to make the entire campus a safe-space - like they've accomplished at Berkeley. That is a complete cluster-f--k - despotism of the politically correct, making an utter mockery of the promise of free inquiry in the academy. Ugh. Berkeley kids. F'in unbearable.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Paul
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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Paul » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:49 pm

Queequeg wrote:But, really, those folks at Yale - they'll go to their jobs at Goldman or Google and live happily ever after completely insulated from ever needing the Bill of Rights to protect them. First Amendment? PshhhaH I've got Amazon Prime, b--hes!!

To be fair, the reporter is doing a "gotcha" on dumb kids who think its cool just to be iconoclasts, even if that means contorting into complete imbecility.

I first encountered this safe-space stuff back in college in the 90s. It makes sense. Its like AA, or any other support group environment. I remember it was LGBTQ community who made the most of it, and that was understandable for these kids who were for the first time feeling open enough to be who they felt on the inside. They needed a non-judgmental environment to explore their identity.

The problem is when these kids start trying to make the entire campus a safe-space - like they've accomplished at Berkeley. That is a complete cluster-f--k - despotism of the politically correct, making an utter mockery of the promise of free inquiry in the academy. Ugh. Berkeley kids. F'in unbearable.
So, is this being triggered feels like? :crying:

Time for a moratorium on non-STEM courses in western universities. Give it ten years and then we can start up the liberal arts courses again, hopefully without all the Marxist nonsense that's embedded itself in academia for decades. :soapbox:

PS my preferred pronoun is God-Emperor.
Last edited by Paul on Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:51 pm

Paul wrote:
Time for a moratorium on non-STEM courses in western universities. Give it ten years and then we can start up the liberal arts courses again, hopefully without all the Marxist nonsense that's embedded itself in academia for decades. :soapbox:
Ahh....the right wing myth of Marxism dominating Academia. That has not been true in the US Academy for at least thirty years.

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Jesse » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:59 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Those kids clearly never had civics class. Hey! Nothing like that education of the high born!

But, really, those folks at Yale - they'll go to their jobs at Goldman or Google and live happily ever after completely insulated from ever needing the Bill of Rights to protect them. First Amendment? PshhhaH I've got Amazon Prime, b--hes!!

To be fair, the reporter is doing a "gotcha" on dumb kids who think its cool just to be iconoclasts, even if that means contorting into complete imbecility.

I first encountered this safe-space stuff back in college in the 90s. It makes sense. Its like AA, or any other support group environment. I remember it was LGBTQ community who made the most of it, and that was understandable for these kids who were for the first time feeling open enough to be who they felt on the inside. They needed a non-judgmental environment to explore their identity.

The problem is when these kids start trying to make the entire campus a safe-space - like they've accomplished at Berkeley. That is a complete cluster-f--k - despotism of the politically correct, making an utter mockery of the promise of free inquiry in the academy. Ugh. Berkeley kids. F'in unbearable.
The problem is how far it can be taken. Anything is potentially offensive. I'm all for making real bullying and character slander against the law. But making it illegal to offend someone? No way in hell. I wasn't even aware they did this at Berkeley, that is scary.

I'm even for complete non-discrimination, but when you take anything even potentially offensive and make it 'wrong', or 'illegal', you are also shutting out any opinion which might make you uncomfortable, even if it might be the truth. This sort of reminds me of the book, "The Giver". The fact they are imposing this on themselves is even more scary.

Imagine living in a completely artificial society, where we can't express anything that isn't 'safe-space' approved. No art, poetry, opinions. It just becomes a hollow simulation of living life. The human psyche is not all fluff and kittens, there's always dark stuff in there, and making it forbidden to express it only makes it grow worse. Satire, Sarcasm, Aggressiveness in acceptable forms are a necessary evil. In fact, it's part of being human. Anything that disallows us to express our real thoughts and emotions is a form of repression, tyrannical behavior control.

I hope this crowd dies out, or grows up.
Last edited by Jesse on Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Paul » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:00 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Paul wrote:
Time for a moratorium on non-STEM courses in western universities. Give it ten years and then we can start up the liberal arts courses again, hopefully without all the Marxist nonsense that's embedded itself in academia for decades. :soapbox:
Ahh....the right wing myth of Marxism dominating Academia. That has not been true in the US Academy for at least thirty years.
Well that's me convinced.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Caodemarte » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:02 pm

It is pretty clear from the video listening to the tone of voice from the respondents that those who agree are going along with the joke or are part of it.

Taking the work of this satirist as accurate reporting is like the Chinese press taking The Onion's declaration of Kim Jong Un as the handsomest man alive as sincere praise. Strangely, the Chinese press does this on a pretty regular basis; the North Korean "press" doesn't look at the Internet.

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Queequeg » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:08 pm

Jesse wrote: I hope this crowd dies out, or grows up.
No. They come to your work place as plucky interns and then you find yourself working for them five years later. They will establish the most "open" and sterile work environment and then fire you because you don't work with a Cheshire grin and have Dilbert comics up in your cubicle.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Queequeg » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:10 pm

Caodemarte wrote:It is pretty clear from the video listening to the tone of voice from the respondents that those who agree are going along with the joke or are part of it.
That is not clear at all.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Jesse
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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Jesse » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:11 pm

Caodemarte wrote:It is pretty clear from the video listening to the tone of voice from the respondents that those who agree are going along with the joke or are part of it.

Taking the work of this satirist as accurate reporting is like the Chinese press taking The Onion's declaration of Kim Jong Un as the handsomest man alive as sincere praise. Strangely, the Chinese press does this on a pretty regular basis; the North Korean "press" doesn't look at the Internet.
I'd like to believe that, but it doesn't seem true.
“I thought if I got two or three signatures, maybe I can do something with that. But then I thought it is not really going to work. But then I realized that the majority of kids I spoke with were signing away the most precious fundamental right that America has. It shocked me and I have to say it really saddened me,” he said.
--Quote from the maker of the video
Might try reading these also:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... nd/399356/
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... y-now.html
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-e ... 90999.html
http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/ ... 7a216.html
Last edited by Jesse on Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

Malcolm
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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:11 pm

Paul wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Paul wrote:
Time for a moratorium on non-STEM courses in western universities. Give it ten years and then we can start up the liberal arts courses again, hopefully without all the Marxist nonsense that's embedded itself in academia for decades. :soapbox:
Ahh....the right wing myth of Marxism dominating Academia. That has not been true in the US Academy for at least thirty years.
Well that's me convinced.
Be informed:
Although we would not contest the claim that professors are one of the most liberal occupational groups in American society, or that the professoriate is a Democratic stronghold, we have shown that there is a sizable, and often ignored, center/center-left contingent within the faculty; that on several important attitude domains – and in terms of overall political orientation – moderatism appears to be on the upswing; that, according to several measures, it is liberal arts colleges, and not elite, PhD granting institutions that house the most liberal faculty; and that there is much disagreement among professors about the role that politics should play in teaching and research.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf
Last edited by Malcolm on Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Queequeg » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:14 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Paul wrote:
Time for a moratorium on non-STEM courses in western universities. Give it ten years and then we can start up the liberal arts courses again, hopefully without all the Marxist nonsense that's embedded itself in academia for decades. :soapbox:
Ahh....the right wing myth of Marxism dominating Academia. That has not been true in the US Academy for at least thirty years.
Indeed. Capitalism dominates Academia.

Grade inflation, privileged kids that must be appeased and coddled? All par for the course because otherwise parents paying full tuition will be calling the dean's office demanding an explanation why their daughter Bentley got a B+ after they just forked over $50,000.

Customer is Always right.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:19 pm

I think it's a real problem with a certain age group, and within education generally.

However, most of the right-wing propaganda on the subject (like this) is cynical, misplaced, and meant to cheerlead for their own side, rather than to point out legitimate issues with this kind of thinking. It's just meant to turn people who are well-meaning but wrong into caricatures, so that you will not listen to their (often legitimate) complaints, simply because you do not like their tactics. And yes before someone asks, of course the same thing is done on the left all the time. It's also exactly what the media is doing with Black Lives Matter, finding the most egregious, least informed people and painting them as the de facto face of the movement, in an effort to de-legitimize it. This is different than pointing out actual flaws in arguments or positions, which of course almost no one bothers to do these days. It's easier to "other" people by talking about Marxism in academia, etc.

On the other side, the media does the same thing with gun owners and 2nd amendment folks, presenting the loudest, least informed, most extreme and poorly spoken as representative of all gun owners. In both these cases nothing could be farther from the truth, but sensationalism is much more attractive than stuff where you actually have to think, or distance yourself from your own opinions a bit.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Queequeg » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:18 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Be informed:
Although we would not contest the claim that professors are one of the most liberal occupational groups in American society, or that the professoriate is a Democratic stronghold, we have shown that there is a sizable, and often ignored, center/center-left contingent within the faculty; that on several important attitude domains – and in terms of overall political orientation – moderatism appears to be on the upswing; that, according to several measures, it is liberal arts colleges, and not elite, PhD granting institutions that house the most liberal faculty; and that there is much disagreement among professors about the role that politics should play in teaching and research.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf
My wife is finishing her dissertation at an ivy in a subject that is about as liberal arts and useless as it gets.

My impression from her and her professors and colleagues is that at the big research universities there is the real work - research and publishing, and then the stuff you have to do - teaching vapid undergrads. It seems that the professors don't care about their students. Everyone gets a A- just for participating, and if you're actually participating, write a term paper that is marginally comprehensible, you get an A. I know, I know, grade inflation is a travesty! Welcome to the premier educational institutions of the United States - at least in liberal arts - I suppose the STEM professors have a little more ammunition when they hand out the C to the kids who don't know how to use their graphing calculators. Anyway, back to the Arts & Sciences - the professors have given up because its easier to pass out As than deal with deans and parents who will bring the sh*t storm on your overworked butt because you're jeopardizing Jr's future with anything less than a 4.0 GPA. Did I mention undergrad tuition is $40g without room and board and books and fees?

At the small liberal arts colleges I suppose its different - that's where rich kids go to explore themselves for four years before they have to grow up. Professors can get mad props from their students in places like that by joining in the freak show. And maybe they can get laid, too.

No offense to the educators out there. I'm cynical about it because I care. I'm glad you do what you do because somebody has to do it.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:24 pm

Part of the problem is that no one can write today, 20 years ago my writing skills were c+, these days they earn me automatic A's.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

Malcolm
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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:02 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Part of the problem is that no one can write today, 20 years ago my writing skills were c+, these days they earn me automatic A's.
No one has been able to write since the 1970's. For example, the first thing I did when I went to school [Harvard Extension] was take a mandatory year of grammar and focused on writing intensive courses. I literally could not write effectively until then.

The problem does not begin in high school, it begins in grade 1.

M

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Rakz » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:36 pm

Very disgusting to see what academia has become. Nothing but left leaning brain washing institutions run by washed up hippies from the 60s.

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Re: Yale Students sign petition to repeal 1st amendment

Post by Queequeg » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:58 pm

Tenso wrote:Very disgusting to see what academia has become. Nothing but left leaning brain washing institutions run by washed up hippies from the 60s.
You've got it wrong, man! Washed up hippies would be a respite!

This is the Frankenstein created by the bureaucratic identity warriors of the 80s, 90s, and aughts!
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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