Dharma Wheel

PuerAzaelis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:02 pm His vids are so different since he came back from retreat. This is before, right?

PS: Actually ... maybe that one was during. Anyway in his recent ones he seems so different. There’s a rock hard stillness in there. I almost miss the old quirky version.

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:25 pm But what about the importance of leaving retreat and engaging beneficially in Samsara. Is it somewhat important or not at all? .... But, I do think a person who has spent their life in retreat can positively influence others and their environment simply by the stability of their own wisdom nature, too.

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:25 pm I think there may be people who go into retreat and then are ill equipped for helping beings in Samsara later, and it might be unhelpful, maybe even an obstacle to their spiritual growth, if that's even possible.

kirtu wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:04 am

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:25 pm But what about the importance of leaving retreat and engaging beneficially in Samsara. Is it somewhat important or not at all? .... But, I do think a person who has spent their life in retreat can positively influence others and their environment simply by the stability of their own wisdom nature, too.

There are people who can't really help others in a secular way. But they can still help them spiritually just through their positive mind (as you allude to at the end).

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:25 pm I think there may be people who go into retreat and then are ill equipped for helping beings in Samsara later, and it might be unhelpful, maybe even an obstacle to their spiritual growth, if that's even possible.

There are but this means that they have some obstacles. In more traditional retreats there is a phase in the beginning where obstacles are dealt with (although they can arise later as well). I suspect that nowadays fewer people whom retreat would have an adverse effect for are being allowed in.

It used to happen that some people with mental illness would go to Zen retreats and then get up in the middle and ring bells. Then they started screening for this kind of thing. But for people who are marginal but functional this might be a positive thing as they face the impulse to do something like this.

I had met a former sports/tv news personality who really had completely renounced samsaric life and just practiced. He was on an infamous retreat in northern France where basically no one there should have been there (including him at the time, he said). The retreat collapsed after a few months although the lama continued to completion. There were a couple of westerners who made it as well but just because there wouldn't leave. All their negativities came boiling out and people were not ready for that. However this was one thing that caused this person to examine his life closely so it wasn't actually all bad.

Kirt

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:25 pm Good video. Everyone talks about the importance of retreat, even Malcolm said that he would go into retreat and stay forever, or something like that (just giving Malcolm his nickel). But what about the importance of leaving retreat and engaging beneficially in Samsara. Is it somewhat important or not at all?

I think there may be people who go into retreat and then are ill equipped for helping beings in Samsara later, and it might be unhelpful, maybe even an obstacle to their spiritual growth, if that's even possible.

But, I do think a person who has spent their life in retreat can positively influence others and their environment simply by the stability of their own wisdom nature, too.

kirtu wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:04 am I had met a former sports/tv news personality who really had completely renounced samsaric life and just practiced. He was on an infamous retreat in northern France where basically no one there should have been there (including him at the time, he said). The retreat collapsed after a few months although the lama continued to completion. There were a couple of westerners who made it as well but just because there wouldn't leave. All their negativities came boiling out and people were not ready for that. However this was one thing that caused this person to examine his life closely so it wasn't actually all bad.

Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:58 am

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:25 pm Good video. Everyone talks about the importance of retreat, even Malcolm said that he would go into retreat and stay forever, or something like that (just giving Malcolm his nickel). But what about the importance of leaving retreat and engaging beneficially in Samsara. Is it somewhat important or not at all?

I think there may be people who go into retreat and then are ill equipped for helping beings in Samsara later, and it might be unhelpful, maybe even an obstacle to their spiritual growth, if that's even possible.

But, I do think a person who has spent their life in retreat can positively influence others and their environment simply by the stability of their own wisdom nature, too.

It just depends on one's karma...and working well with it. Any "correct" answer is bound to be relative.

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:25 pm But what about the importance of leaving retreat and engaging beneficially in Samsara. Is it somewhat important or not at all?

Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:59 pm

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:25 pm But what about the importance of leaving retreat and engaging beneficially in Samsara. Is it somewhat important or not at all?

Samsara is also there in retreat, magnified quite intensely.

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:57 pm

Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:59 pm

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:25 pm But what about the importance of leaving retreat and engaging beneficially in Samsara. Is it somewhat important or not at all?

Samsara is also there in retreat, magnified quite intensely.

I used to think a retreat was always done solitary, and then I heard that 3 year retreats are more like a group thing, so I can see how it could be magnified.

conebeckham wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:33 pm

TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:57 pm

Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:59 pm

Samsara is also there in retreat, magnified quite intensely.

I used to think a retreat was always done solitary, and then I heard that 3 year retreats are more like a group thing, so I can see how it could be magnified.

In Tibetan tradition, some folks do a solitary retreat, it's true, but most people's first extended retreats are with others. However, you still spend much of your time alone, in solitary practice. Twice a day there are group practices, and of course there are meals. There are also usually monthly and annual group rituals, as well.

A friend who did such a retreat told me that the retreat really drove home the point made by Sartre, I think it was..."Hell is other people."

Of course those who do retreat in solitary fashion may not contend with this wonderful opportunity to practice, but there are hells that can be personally experienced on one's own, eh?

kirtu wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:31 pm This is probably from before his retreat.

"Rock hard stillness" - I would put it as a sharpness but then again I'm not a student of his. He is still pretty quirky compared to most people.

Kirt