Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

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Simon E.
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Simon E. » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:05 pm

If its merely intellectual its not right view.
I am not sure you understand the terminology you are using....'Fuki'.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Mantrik
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Mantrik » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:11 pm

I have two friends with telescopes they say are pointing at the moon.
I look through the first person's telescope and tell the second person I have seen the moon, without knowing if their telescope is showing me the same thing.
My experience of the moon cannot show me if my view was in accordance with the second person's view of the moon at all.
So, I can disregard the second person's moon as I am satisfied with my view, or I can look at their view also and choose which view to believe to be the moon.
Then they tell me they are part of an astronomy club. I go along and everyone has a telescope with a view of the moon............but they are all pointing in different directions and I desperately want to see the moon.
Finally, I hear that the first person's telescope is pointing at the same object used as the moon by those who have actually reached it, and there are records across the world of successfully using this moon as the 'real' moon. Some of the others claim they have reached the moon but I discover they only have managed to set off a few fireworks.
On that basis, whose telescope should I choose to look through?
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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fuki
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:19 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:03 pm


There are two kinds of right view: mundane right view and transcendent right view. The latter arises from the former. There can be a problem if a person mistakes their mundane conceptual right view for the transcendent right view of realization. For this reason we need genuine teachers who can set us straight if we err in mistaking our conceptual right view for the right view of realization. But people like Adyashanti are so far away from anything remotely resembling right view, well...you know what I think. On the other hand, people like Adyadhanti, Andrew Cohen, Eckart Tolle, etc. are not for serious people. They are for people who like spiritual fast food. Even though I think they contain errors, the study of real Samkhya, Yoga, Vedanta is a serious thing which I respect greatly, even though I think their view is mistaken. But there is a lot for Buddhists to gain by studying real Indian tenets if only so they can avoid porting such mistaken views into their own practice.
I agree with your angle of vision, only I have to say there are exceptions, I know teachers born and raised in those schools/cultures who are really 'outside the view' which is known to common practisioners, and I also say that some practises can be beneficial I'm not speaking of Vendatic and other views doctrine wise perse.
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fuki
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:21 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:05 pm
If its merely intellectual its not right view.
I am not sure you understand the terminology you are using....'Fuki'.
Are you familiar with correct and incorrect function?

For instance false speech or "untruths" can function correctly in order to shake up a student.
Many Buddhist teachers use it all the time, if you think all that comes out of your teachers mouth is always "right" you might have missed it ;)

The Dharma is fluid, not fixed.
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Simon E.
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Simon E. » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:29 pm

You have not addressed Malcolm's point....is my point.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Malcolm
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Malcolm » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:31 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:21 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:05 pm
If its merely intellectual its not right view.
I am not sure you understand the terminology you are using....'Fuki'.
Are you familiar with correct and incorrect function?

For instance false speech or "untruths" can function correctly in order to shake up a student.
Many Buddhist teachers use it all the time, if you think all that comes out of your teachers mouth is always "right" you might have missed it ;)

The Dharma is fluid, not fixed.

The Dharma has one purpose, freeing sentient beings from desire, hatred, and ignorance. That's it.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Virgo
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Virgo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:31 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:03 pm
... But there is a lot for Buddhists to gain by studying real Indian tenets if only so they can avoid porting such mistaken views into their own practice.
:good:

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


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fuki
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:33 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:29 pm
You have not addressed Malcolm's point....is my point.
I'm sure Malcolm could tell me so if that is the case and he cares to address it. ;)
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fuki
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:35 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:31 pm

The Dharma has one purpose, freeing sentient beings from desire, hatred, and ignorance. That's it.
Naturally.
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https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:07 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:11 pm
I have two friends with telescopes they say are pointing at the moon.
I look through the first person's telescope and tell the second person I have seen the moon, without knowing if their telescope is showing me the same thing.
My experience of the moon cannot show me if my view was in accordance with the second person's view of the moon at all.
So, I can disregard the second person's moon as I am satisfied with my view, or I can look at their view also and choose which view to believe to be the moon.
Then they tell me they are part of an astronomy club. I go along and everyone has a telescope with a view of the moon............but they are all pointing in different directions and I desperately want to see the moon.
Finally, I hear that the first person's telescope is pointing at the same object used as the moon by those who have actually reached it, and there are records across the world of successfully using this moon as the 'real' moon. Some of the others claim they have reached the moon but I discover they only have managed to set off a few fireworks.
On that basis, whose telescope should I choose to look through?
Image
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

Simon E.
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Simon E. » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:31 pm

Moving on..there's nothing to see here... :lol:
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Mantrik
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Mantrik » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:42 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:31 pm
Moving on..there's nothing to see here... :lol:
Yup. Gaze at the view over the cliff and carry on walking on the path. ;)
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Simon E.
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Simon E. » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:44 pm

;)
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Virgo
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Virgo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:45 pm

The problem is people fall into the extreme view of eternalism. This is a non-Buddhist view, a view of tirthikas, which Shakyamuni Buddha rejected (and which all Buddhas reject).

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

Marc
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Marc » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:38 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:03 pm

... the study of real Samkhya, Yoga, Vedanta is a serious thing which I respect greatly, even though I think their view is mistaken. But there is a lot for Buddhists to gain by studying real Indian tenets if only so they can avoid porting such mistaken views into their own practice.
Hi Malcolm,  
Would you have a some resources in mind to recommend for those of us who may want to do so ?
Thx
M

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Malcolm
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:34 pm

Marc wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:38 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:03 pm

... the study of real Samkhya, Yoga, Vedanta is a serious thing which I respect greatly, even though I think their view is mistaken. But there is a lot for Buddhists to gain by studying real Indian tenets if only so they can avoid porting such mistaken views into their own practice.
Hi Malcolm,  
Would you have a some resources in mind to recommend for those of us who may want to do so ?
Thx
M
Well, reading A Sourcebook in Indian Philosophy is good for starters.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

pael
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by pael » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:47 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:03 pm

There are two kinds of right view: mundane right view and transcendent right view. The latter arises from the former.
What to read for achieving mundane right view? Is Sutta Nipata good?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering

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Malcolm
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:14 pm

pael wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:47 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:03 pm

There are two kinds of right view: mundane right view and transcendent right view. The latter arises from the former.
What to read for achieving mundane right view? Is Sutta Nipata good?
Sure, but Prajñāpāramita is better.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Marc
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Marc » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:30 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:34 pm
Well, reading A Sourcebook in Indian Philosophy is good for starters.
In this ocean of publications of fluctuating quality, do you know of one that particularly stand out ? :tongue:
Thx

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Malcolm
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Re: Bhagavad Gita 2; 11-25

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:34 pm

Marc wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:30 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:34 pm
Well, reading A Sourcebook in Indian Philosophy is good for starters.
In this ocean of publications of fluctuating quality, do you know of one that particularly stand out ? :tongue:
Thx
I meant the one called A Sourcebook in Indian Philosophy published by Princeton.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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