Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

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kirtu
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Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by kirtu »

Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Queequeg
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by Queequeg »

Kind of relevant.

There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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kirtu
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by kirtu »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:33 pm Kind of relevant.
How so?

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Queequeg
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by Queequeg »

Following metaphors can get you wet, too.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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kirtu
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by kirtu »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:15 pm Following metaphors can get you wet, too.
What??? Porque? :shrug:

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

kirtu wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:31 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:15 pm Following metaphors can get you wet, too.
What??? Porque? :shrug:

Kirt
Metaphors can be misleading, like misreading GPS machines.
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kirtu
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by kirtu »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:52 pm
kirtu wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:31 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:15 pm Following metaphors can get you wet, too.
What??? Porque? :shrug:

Kirt
Metaphors can be misleading, like misreading GPS machines.
Well yes, but the Garfield and Newland are correct in their use it Buddhism.

Queequeg's cryptic phrasing is throwing me ... perhaps the crocodile is after him ??

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Queequeg
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by Queequeg »

Over explaining a joke is sure to kill it. Malcolm explained it better than I could.

Bertrand Russel observed we think only in metaphors. Everything is like something else. We co stantly use metaphors, not just Buddhists. In the end, though, metaphors are metaphors and never more.

Obvious statement is obvious.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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kirtu
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by kirtu »

Queequeg wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:18 pm Over explaining a joke is sure to kill it. Malcolm explained it better than I could.

Bertrand Russel observed we think only in metaphors. Everything is like something else. We co stantly use metaphors, not just Buddhists. In the end, though, metaphors are metaphors and never more.
That's certainly true.

I didn't get the joke though (The Office of all things ?? and a car in water ??) and still don't but thanks!

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Queequeg
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by Queequeg »

Also, metaphors are references to something else. A good metaphor sort of captures some quality about the thing referenced. But they are not the same and sooner or later the parallel breaks down. Following literally gets you in a lake.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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kirtu
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by kirtu »

Queequeg wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:30 pm Also, metaphors are references to something else. A good metaphor sort of captures some quality about the thing referenced. But they are not the same and sooner or later the parallel breaks down. Following literally gets you in a lake.
Wittgenstein and others, the perils of the "language game." These are obvious points of course. But the metaphor used .... was perhaps a bit muddy?, at least for moi.

:anjali:

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Yavana
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by Yavana »

You guys are literally killing me with this discussion.
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Wayfarer
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by Wayfarer »

I have the idea that there a ‘rogue metaphors’ - that is, metaphors that were originally devised to make a particular point, but then develop a life of their own, and start generating further implications which are widely accepted because the original metaphor has become so deeply embedded in cultural discourse that everyone assumes it. Language and culture are full of them.

The point about the Buddha was that he employed metaphors consciously and deliberately and with great effect. However even some of those metaphors have tended to go rogue, in the sense that they are bandied about by people who don’t really understand the metaphor but who think by repeating them, they are ‘expounding Buddhsm’.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
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kirtu
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Re: Jay Garfield and Guy Newland on Metaphors in Buddhism

Post by kirtu »

Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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