"Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

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Könchok Thrinley
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"Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:14 am

I have so many problems with this article... it has some interesting points, but still. What are your takes?
https://thetattooedbuddha.com/2017/04/2 ... bqisoYjy8Q
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:46 am

Miroku wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:14 am
I have so many problems with this article... it has some interesting points, but still. What are your takes?
https://thetattooedbuddha.com/2017/04/2 ... bqisoYjy8Q
This is one of worst articles I’ve seen on ‘basic’ Buddhism, period. That is really saying something. He basically just made some stuff up, put some ‘tude on it, called it good. No citations on any of his broad claims or anything, because proving you're not full of crap is too academic and boring. Completely worth ignoring IMO. The thing about vegetarianism in Sutras so that elites could hoard meat....wow.

It's ironic as hell that he venerates studying with Theravadins in Sri Lanka and then decries "elitist" Buddhism, I don't mean to generalize, but you can't get instituional Buddhism that is much more "elite vs. Common" than modern institutional Theravada is.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by tobes » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:53 am

"Put down your books and go live Buddhism" says the man writing books about Buddhism.

Where's the face palm emoticon?

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:00 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:46 am
It's ironic as hell that he venerates studying with Theravadins in Sri Lanka and then decries "elitist" Buddhism, I don't mean to generalize, but you can't get instituional Buddhism that is much more "elite vs. Common" than modern institutional Theravada is.
Really? Care to elaborate?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:03 am

The article is jsut stupid. However, I quite frankly liked his point about doing some charity. But also that point kinda betrays the author as there are quite a few charities and charitable organisations lead by tibetan buddhists in the west. Be it Maitreya, AsiaOnlus, etc.

What quite fascinates me is how the person just really is talking s**t about like 70% of Buddhadharma.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Wayfarer » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:50 am

It’s a crap article. No purpose is served by republishing such nonsense.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Queequeg » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:22 pm

Miroku wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:14 am
I have so many problems with this article... it has some interesting points, but still. What are your takes?
https://thetattooedbuddha.com/2017/04/2 ... bqisoYjy8Q
Donald Rumsfeld once pointed out, there are known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns. This fellow revels in the third.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by smcj » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:37 pm

If you like religious processions and guys parading around in funny hats, you can get that at the Episcopal cathedral, and there you won’t have to sit on the floor.
I like the “you won’t have to sit on the floor” part.
*****
As a modern footnote, last year Kalu R was supposed to come to a western monastery on a Tuesday morning around 10am. A full-on traditional procession was planned to greet him with trumpets, banners, incense, and everyone in their finest robes.

However instead of arriving Tuesday at 10a, he showed up in a cab Monday night late after everybody had gone to bed. He had been here before so he knew how to get into the building and where to sleep. So nobody knew he had arrived.

The next morning he called the nun in charge and told her something had come up and he couldn’t come at all. After she’d processed that shock he came clean and told her he was already there upstairs in his room. Compared to the idea he wasn’t coming at all she felt relieved.

I guess he’s not into that whole procession thing. The times they are a changing.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:08 pm

Miroku wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:00 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:46 am
It's ironic as hell that he venerates studying with Theravadins in Sri Lanka and then decries "elitist" Buddhism, I don't mean to generalize, but you can't get instituional Buddhism that is much more "elite vs. Common" than modern institutional Theravada is.
Really? Care to elaborate?
Huge gap between laypeople and monastics, rich monks and monasteries, lots of people who don’t practice and just gain merit by donation/sponsorship etc.

We all know this stuff certainly exists in Tibetan and other Buddhism of course, but it’s pretty amusing to talk about Theravada as egalitarian, and just showcases his ignorance.

Wasn’t intending a specific put down of Theravada, just pointing out that if one wants to criticize’elite’ Buddhism Theravada is just as guilty. In fact, the least ‘Elite’ tendencies are arguably found in one of the groups he criticized the most - Pureland.

On the charity thing, he’s right generally, in the manner of a broken clock.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:35 pm

smcj wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:37 pm
If you like religious processions and guys parading around in funny hats, you can get that at the Episcopal cathedral, and there you won’t have to sit on the floor.
I like the “you won’t have to sit on the floor” part.
*****
As a modern footnote, last year Kalu R was supposed to come to a western monastery on a Tuesday morning around 10am. A full-on traditional procession was planned to greet him with trumpets, banners, incense, and everyone in their finest robes.

However instead of arriving Tuesday at 10a, he showed up in a cab Monday night late after everybody had gone to bed. He had been here before so he knew how to get into the building and where to sleep. So nobody knew he had arrived.

The next morning he called the nun in charge and told her something had come up and he couldn’t come at all. After she’d processed that shock he came clean and told her he was already there upstairs in his room. Compared to the idea he wasn’t coming at all she felt relieved.

I guess he’s not into that whole procession thing. The times they are a changing.
That is actually a pretty nice story! You are correct, things are changing. Bit of a shame I am a huge fan of silly hats tho.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by SonamTashi » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:44 pm

I don't have anything substantive to add, but I thought this was funny:

Sokka Gakai is based on the “Lotus” Sutra
I find the placement of the quotation marks funny, especially in context of what the author is discussing in the part leading up to it. It seems the author doesn't know how scare quotes work. Is the author questioning the authenticity of it as a sutra or are the questioning the fact it is named after a flower? Obviously they're attempting the former, but for some reason they put quotes around Lotus. I agree that there is little of value in the article; the author seems to be pulling most of it out of their ass.
:bow: :buddha1: :bow: :anjali: :meditate:

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:54 pm

SonamTashi wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:44 pm
I don't have anything substantive to add, but I thought this was funny:

Sokka Gakai is based on the “Lotus” Sutra
I find the placement of the quotation marks funny, especially in context of what the author is discussing in the part leading up to it. It seems the author doesn't know how scare quotes work. Is the author questioning the authenticity of it as a sutra or are the questioning the fact it is named after a flower? Obviously they're attempting the former, but for some reason they put quotes around Lotus. I agree that there is little of value in the article; the author seems to be pulling most of it out of their ass.
Oh, yes definetly. But! The "Lotus" is something I have noticed too and it is just weird and maybe a bit quirky. These small things are kinda worth bringing up. But ... that might just be me being a masochist. :shrug:
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:28 pm

it have some very good points.

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Norwegian » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:46 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:28 pm
it have some very good points.
It doesn't. The writer is an uneducated idiot who peddles their own confusion to others.
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by smcj » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:59 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:46 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:28 pm
it have some very good points.
It doesn't. The writer is an uneducated idiot who peddles their own confusion to others.
He’s a Shravakayanist. It’s his karmic perspective. In his blindness he is grabbing the part of the elephant that is appropriate for his karma.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the article played well on DhammaWheel.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

Norwegian
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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Norwegian » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:05 pm

smcj wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:59 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:46 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:28 pm
it have some very good points.
It doesn't. The writer is an uneducated idiot who peddles their own confusion to others.
He’s a Shravakayanist. It’s his karmic perspective. In his blindness he is grabbing the part of the elephant that is appropriate for his karma.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the article played well on DhammaWheel.
Yes nothing new to read in that article. It's the same old same old from such people.
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Malcolm » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:24 pm

Könchok Thrinley wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:14 am
I have so many problems with this article... it has some interesting points, but still. What are your takes?
https://thetattooedbuddha.com/2017/04/2 ... bqisoYjy8Q
Know nothing Buddhism for know nothings.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:00 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:46 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:28 pm
it have some very good points.
It doesn't. The writer is an uneducated idiot who peddles their own confusion to others.
is just a guy who has an opinion. for example, i liked the
Buddhism is just so much mumbo-jumbo—authentic mumbo-jumbo, if you try to keep up with Tibetan chants
part, because i find it is true, and
Call me a Hinayana and I’ll grab your nipple and twist it real hard
made me laugh loud hahah

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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by Norwegian » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:19 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:00 pm
is just a guy who has an opinion.
Yes, a guy with an uninformed opinion based on total ignorance. He has no understanding whatsoever.
"Buddhism is just so much mumbo-jumbo—authentic mumbo-jumbo, if you try to keep up with Tibetan chants"
This is another one of his ignorant comments.
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

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PeterC
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Re: "Mahayana Buddhism is based on a lie"

Post by PeterC » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:53 am

He makes two good points
1/ intellectual aptitude is not necessary for enlightenment. Effort is necessary.
2/ way too many western Buddhists are good at finding excuses to not practice generosity

The rest is uninformed and silly

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