Victims of Communism

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Nicholas Weeks
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Victims of Communism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:02 pm

One-legged N. Korean escapes by trekking hundreds of miles:

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Simon E. » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:10 pm

The header refers to Communism. Are you really going to make a case for North Korea being Communist?
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm

Watch the video - the victim calls (4:05) his nation Communist. I think he would know best.
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:33 pm

Hong Kong is not totally ruled by the Chinese Communist Party - yet. But Communist control is a situation to be avoided, as this speaker points out.

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Simon E. » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:35 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm
Watch the video - the victim calls (4:05) his nation Communist. I think he would know best.
Many states who are in fact fascist totalitarian regimes, call themselves “communist”. I don’t think Marx and Engels would agree.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:48 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm
Watch the video - the victim calls (4:05) his nation Communist. I think he would know best.
That's a absurd assumption, because he's suffered he now understands the intricacies of political systems?

No one in their right mind considers China of today economically "communist" in any real sense - including plenty of scholars who are largely anti-communist.

There are grave issues with the authoritarian side of Communism and the regimes it's inspired, this is unmistakable, but this sort of "look at them scary Red Chinese" stuff belongs in the Red Scare era and is really tiresome.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Malcolm » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:19 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:33 pm
Hong Kong is not totally ruled by the Chinese Communist Party - yet. But Communist control is a situation to be avoided, as this speaker points out.

Any totalitarian state is to be avoided, whether "left" or "right."

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Malcolm » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:20 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:48 pm

There are grave issues with the authoritarian side of Communism and the regimes it's inspired, this is unmistakable, but this sort of "look at them scary Red Chinese" stuff belongs in the Red Scare era and is really tiresome.
Well, red scare tactics are in vogue again amongst Republicans.

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:52 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm
Watch the video - the victim calls (4:05) his nation Communist. I think he would know best.
Many states who are in fact fascist totalitarian regimes, call themselves “communist”. I don’t think Marx and Engels would agree.
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:58 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:48 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm
Watch the video - the victim calls (4:05) his nation Communist. I think he would know best.
That's a absurd assumption, because he's suffered he now understands the intricacies of political systems?

No one in their right mind considers China of today economically "communist" in any real sense - including plenty of scholars who are largely anti-communist.

There are grave issues with the authoritarian side of Communism and the regimes it's inspired, this is unmistakable, but this sort of "look at them scary Red Chinese" stuff belongs in the Red Scare era and is really tiresome.
Ho hum - academic abstractions. Name me a Communist nation that is (or was) not run by controlling totalitarians.
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Malcolm » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:16 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:58 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:48 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm
Watch the video - the victim calls (4:05) his nation Communist. I think he would know best.
That's a absurd assumption, because he's suffered he now understands the intricacies of political systems?

No one in their right mind considers China of today economically "communist" in any real sense - including plenty of scholars who are largely anti-communist.

There are grave issues with the authoritarian side of Communism and the regimes it's inspired, this is unmistakable, but this sort of "look at them scary Red Chinese" stuff belongs in the Red Scare era and is really tiresome.
Ho hum - academic abstractions. Name me a Communist nation that is (or was) not run by controlling totalitarians.
He can't; but on the other hand, the CCP seem to have figured out they can be capitalists without democracy.

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:18 pm

Probably pointless to remind many 'minds', but this late, great person has had his anti-Communist book translated into English - finally.

https://www.vladimirbukovsky.com/judgment-in-moscow
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:22 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:16 pm

He can't; but on the other hand, the CCP seem to have figured out they can be capitalists without democracy.
Correct, but it is the members of the CCP who get most of the material benefits. Of course that has always been true of the many Red classless societies, Party members get the best - not the rest.
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Malcolm » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:34 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:22 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:16 pm

He can't; but on the other hand, the CCP seem to have figured out they can be capitalists without democracy.
Correct, but it is the members of the CCP who get most of the material benefits. Of course that has always been true of the many Red classless societies, Party members get the best - not the rest.
Not exactly true, Nicholas. What is true is that the CCP will let anyone make money, but they cannot challenge the party. That's the deal. Economic freedom in exchange for political slavery.

And umm, the idea that there are no classes inm Chinese society under the CCP, might have been an operative ideology until 1980, but that has long gone by.

I've been to China twice, and the last time I was there, I spent a fair amount of time, in an "English" class I was asked to teach to the med students at Tibetan Hospital where I did an internship, lecturing them on the principles of representative Democracy and free markets, as well as the importance of their preserving their Buddhist identity and Tibetan culture.

There must have been no "red-hearted Tibetans" in the class, because the CCP gave us flying colors in terms of not being political while we were there.

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by conebeckham » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:51 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:34 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:22 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:16 pm

He can't; but on the other hand, the CCP seem to have figured out they can be capitalists without democracy.
Correct, but it is the members of the CCP who get most of the material benefits. Of course that has always been true of the many Red classless societies, Party members get the best - not the rest.
Not exactly true, Nicholas. What is true is that the CCP will let anyone make money, but they cannot challenge the party. That's the deal. Economic freedom in exchange for political slavery.

And umm, the idea that there are no classes inm Chinese society under the CCP, might have been an operative ideology until 1980, but that has long gone by.

I've been to China twice, and the last time I was there, I spent a fair amount of time, in an "English" class I was asked to teach to the med students at Tibetan Hospital where I did an internship, lecturing them on the principles of representative Democracy and free markets, as well as the importance of their preserving their Buddhist identity and Tibetan culture.

There must have been no "red-hearted Tibetans" in the class, because the CCP gave us flying colors in terms of not being political while we were there.
Calling the PRC Communist is akin to to calling he USA a Democracy, frankly. As for "representative," well......not truly representative, either. The Senate is obviously not truly representative, and the electoral college is long past it's expiration date.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:07 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:58 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:48 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm
Watch the video - the victim calls (4:05) his nation Communist. I think he would know best.
That's a absurd assumption, because he's suffered he now understands the intricacies of political systems?

No one in their right mind considers China of today economically "communist" in any real sense - including plenty of scholars who are largely anti-communist.

There are grave issues with the authoritarian side of Communism and the regimes it's inspired, this is unmistakable, but this sort of "look at them scary Red Chinese" stuff belongs in the Red Scare era and is really tiresome.
Ho hum - academic abstractions. Name me a Communist nation that is (or was) not run by controlling totalitarians.
Most nations which have had conflict-laden revolutions in the modern age end up with totalitarian governments period, or at least with a violent, totalitarian period of governance. Plenty of them are right wing, not Communist.

There are specific problems with totalitarianism in Communist ideas and theory, such as the "dictatorship of the proletariat", not to mention Maosim and third world liberation ideas, and so called Democratic centralism - where some of the most brutal regimes came from ...but I doubt you even know what they are. Most of your anti-Communist stuff reads like Red Scare propaganda, basically irrelevant to today's world, and largely uninformed by the reality of anyone but right wing punditry.

I am not a Communist, to me the most defensible part of Marxism is it's analysis and predictions regarding Capitalism, it's worked out terribly in practice, as (usually) violent revolutions which unchecked power in anyone's hands seem to go.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

Simon E.
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Simon E. » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:52 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm
Watch the video - the victim calls (4:05) his nation Communist. I think he would know best.
Many states who are in fact fascist totalitarian regimes, call themselves “communist”. I don’t think Marx and Engels would agree.
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
Clearly any actual debate is pointless.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:22 pm

The Bukovsky archives will (or might, depending on the reader) cut thru a lot of pro-Commie fog:

https://bukovsky-archive.com
May all seek, find or follow the Path of Buddhas.

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:42 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:18 pm
This late, great person has had his anti-Communist book translated into English - finally.

https://www.vladimirbukovsky.com/judgment-in-moscow
How it begins:

http://kissin.dk/favourite/judgementinm ... kovsky.pdf
May all seek, find or follow the Path of Buddhas.

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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:42 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:22 pm
The Bukovsky archives will (or might, depending on the reader) cut thru a lot of pro-Commie fog:

https://bukovsky-archive.com
What on earth is "pro-commie fog?" Communism as an economic system has been on the ropes for a while, or hadn't you heard? Or wait, are you you just conflating everyone on the left with "commie" in McCarthyist fashion?
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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