How is the daily practice of Tendai?

sillyrabbit
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by sillyrabbit » Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:56 am

Rishin wrote:
Seishin wrote:That's not what I'm saying. Only that, for your own benefit, it's best to find a teacher. You can of course do your own thing, but what happens when you have a problem or you need some adjustments?

The nembutsu practice is open to anyone, so you can try that. It's part of Tendai Buddhism
ShineeSeoul,

I think the above can't be overstated enough.

I'm very new to Buddhism and to my mind a teacher is a necessity, especially when undertaking meditation.

I think it would be far too easy to go down the wrong path or build bad habits. A teacher would help prevent this or at least lessen the impact such things will have on your practice.
I think the situation is that people often cannot find a teacher, or in ShineeSeoul's case, cannot outwardly identify as a Buddhist, let alone receive instruction one-on-one.
Namo Amitabha Buddha
:hug:

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rory
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by rory » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:08 am

Honestly don't people pay attention ( oh the irony to say this in a Buddhist forum); ShineeSeoul is nominally a Muslim in Malaysia. So actually help him like Seishin is kindly doing than repeating the same unhelpful thing : "you must get a teacher"

As Seishin says you can practice Pure Land without a teacher or by reading teachings, no problem. And with chanting I assure you will develop one-pointed concentration! Also you can read the Lotus Sutra and chant the sutra without any problem, which is also a Tendai practice. I really recommend this. Many times I had to practice on my own with no teacher nearby and this works. Here are some great classice free books:
http://www.ymba.org/free-books
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

Rishin
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by Rishin » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:53 am

rory wrote:Honestly don't people pay attention ( oh the irony to say this in a Buddhist forum); ShineeSeoul is nominally a Muslim in Malaysia. So actually help him like Seishin is kindly doing than repeating the same unhelpful thing : "you must get a teacher"

As Seishin says you can practice Pure Land without a teacher or by reading teachings, no problem. And with chanting I assure you will develop one-pointed concentration! Also you can read the Lotus Sutra and chant the sutra without any problem, which is also a Tendai practice. I really recommend this. Many times I had to practice on my own with no teacher nearby and this works. Here are some great classice free books:
http://www.ymba.org/free-books
gassho
Rory
I was simply giving my opinion based on my experience as someone who is new to Buddhism. Having recently gone from not having a teacher to having one the change is still rather stark in my mind.

I was hoping that by echoing Seishin's comments about needing a teacher I would show that it simply isn't the same old thing coming from those who are experienced, I have seen and felt the difference that proper guidance can make.

It's not so much a case of not paying attention and more one of emphasising the aspects of practice that would be problematic without a teacher. I'd hate to think that someone would end up building bad habits that could potentially get in the way of their practice.

That's all.

:namaste:

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rory
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by rory » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:24 am

Kindly stop talking about your experience and think of ways to help ShineeSoul; that's what matters.
SSoul here is a link to Rev. Jundo Cohen's online Soto sangha to learn how to meditate (he also posts on this forum)
http://www.treeleaf.org/
I am sure he'd be happy to help you with your questions:)
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

Rishin
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by Rishin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:20 am

Like I said it was a way of helping. You might not be able to see it that way but that does not invalidate it. It was what I could do in my own small way. So instead of detracting from the subject matter at hand you would do far better looking at things from beyond you own, essentially limited, point of view.

Little point in me contributing with something that is outside of my experience, is there?

Anyway ShineeSoul,

I wish you well in your journey, whichever way it goes I hope it is beneficial. :smile:

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ShineeSeoul
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by ShineeSeoul » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:26 pm

rory wrote:Honestly don't people pay attention ( oh the irony to say this in a Buddhist forum); ShineeSeoul is nominally a Muslim in Malaysia. So actually help him like Seishin is kindly doing than repeating the same unhelpful thing : "you must get a teacher"

As Seishin says you can practice Pure Land without a teacher or by reading teachings, no problem. And with chanting I assure you will develop one-pointed concentration! Also you can read the Lotus Sutra and chant the sutra without any problem, which is also a Tendai practice. I really recommend this. Many times I had to practice on my own with no teacher nearby and this works. Here are some great classice free books:
http://www.ymba.org/free-books
gassho
Rory
Thank you very much, I appreciate your concern

yes unfortunately, people act as everyone in USA or Europe, they completely forget about muslim people, which is really large, and they ignore them, I find it is sad, and not helpful, many muslim are trapped in this religion, and can't say they are not muslim

any way, so pure land is the only path that doesn't require a teacher?

how about the esoteric path in Tendai? its more about chanting and mudra? which can be done without teacher?

I actually Chant every day, I chant Buddhas and Bodhistatvas name I mentioned, with some Mantras, and I bow 3 time each day

I havn't included the chanting of lotus sutra as part of my daily practice, but I will try to do that
Last edited by ShineeSeoul on Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ShineeSeoul
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by ShineeSeoul » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:28 pm

Rishin wrote:Like I said it was a way of helping. You might not be able to see it that way but that does not invalidate it. It was what I could do in my own small way. So instead of detracting from the subject matter at hand you would do far better looking at things from beyond you own, essentially limited, point of view.

Little point in me contributing with something that is outside of my experience, is there?

Anyway ShineeSoul,

I wish you well in your journey, whichever way it goes I hope it is beneficial. :smile:
for new beginner yes it can be difficult having no teacher, but isn't Buddha himself said that everyone must be a teacher to him or herself?

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Seishin
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by Seishin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:34 pm

No he didn't. He said to be our own light/refuge. There have been many different interpretations on what that means.

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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by Seishin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:36 pm

Tendai esoteric can only be done with a teacher and only after ordination

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ShineeSeoul
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by ShineeSeoul » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:43 pm

Seishin wrote:No he didn't. He said to be our own light/refuge. There have been many different interpretations on what that means.
as for what I know, Buddha refused to put any teacher after he passed away, and he said that everyone must be a teacher to themselves? its mentioned in one of the sutras, forget which one

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Seishin
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by Seishin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:03 pm

He didn't name a successor, which is not the same as a teacher. And he didn't say be our own teacher. If you read the Mahaparinibbana Sutta you will see what I mean. Essentially almost every buddhist since the Buddha had a teacher in one form or another. There are some things that don't require a teacher, such as reading, copying and reciting the sutras. Or nembutsu practice. There are a few mantras that do not require empowerment. However if you are looking to practice mudras and other esoteric practices you will need a teacher. It's not like we're trying to stop you from practicing or from following your chosen path, but it's like if you wanted to become a surgeon. You need a teacher (or several) to guide you so that you don't make mistakes that can harm you and others. I hope you understand this.

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ShineeSeoul
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by ShineeSeoul » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:12 pm

Seishin wrote:He didn't name a successor, which is not the same as a teacher. And he didn't say be our own teacher. If you read the Mahaparinibbana Sutta you will see what I mean. Essentially almost every buddhist since the Buddha had a teacher in one form or another. There are some things that don't require a teacher, such as reading, copying and reciting the sutras. Or nembutsu practice. There are a few mantras that do not require empowerment. However if you are looking to practice mudras and other esoteric practices you will need a teacher. It's not like we're trying to stop you from practicing or from following your chosen path, but it's like if you wanted to become a surgeon. You need a teacher (or several) to guide you so that you don't make mistakes that can harm you and others. I hope you understand this.
ok...how about the bow practice, does it need a teacher? and what is the chanting that involve bowing?

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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by DGA » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:19 pm

Hi ShineeSeoul,

If you want to practice bowing (prostrations), and you live in Korea, you are in good luck. That practice is widely available in the Jogye and Taego Orders, where you can get practical instruction in how to do it and what it means.

Generally, for all Buddhist practices and especially for a beginner: you need a teacher, and a community of people to practice with. I encourage you to find a temple near you to learn the basics of Buddhist practice, and if you are still interested in practicing Tendai Buddhism, find yourself a teacher willing to take you on.

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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by Seishin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:24 pm

Bowing on your own is ok. Bowing with a teacher is better. Whilst bowing you can chant "I take refuge in the Buddha. I take refuge in the sangha. I take refuge in the Dharma"

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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by ShineeSeoul » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:25 pm

Seishin wrote:Bowing on your own is ok. Bowing with a teacher is better. Whilst bowing you can chant "I take refuge in the Buddha. I take refuge in the sangha. I take refuge in the Dharma"
I see thanks

should it stay as three or it need to be increased? and if its increased, should I just chant the same taking refugee?

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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by ShineeSeoul » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:26 pm

DGA wrote:Hi ShineeSeoul,

If you want to practice bowing (prostrations), and you live in Korea, you are in good luck. That practice is widely available in the Jogye and Taego Orders, where you can get practical instruction in how to do it and what it means.

Generally, for all Buddhist practices and especially for a beginner: you need a teacher, and a community of people to practice with. I encourage you to find a temple near you to learn the basics of Buddhist practice, and if you are still interested in practicing Tendai Buddhism, find yourself a teacher willing to take you on.
I am not in Korea and I can't find a teacher...I mentioned the reason why

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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by Seishin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:34 pm

:cheers:
ShineeSeoul wrote:
I see thanks

should it stay as three or it need to be increased? and if its increased, should I just chant the same taking refugee?
If doing three, then you can chant the refuge. If doing more there is no need to chant the refuge.

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rory
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by rory » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:43 am

Hi ShineeSoul;
I've been thinking some more for ways to help you. Did you know there is a Shingon Temple in Malaysia? I found this:
from youtube (see links below). To learn Shingon and Tendai esoteric practices, it's true you have to do it in person with a teacher, that's their rule. But if you contact this temple below and the priest privately, I'm sure he will understand your difficult situation and would meet you privately to instruct you so that no one would know. Another thought is write to Tyler Dehn, Jikai, who is a priest in in Japan now and lives in Australia, maybe he can advise you and perhaps visit you. These would be the best suggestions.

Other things you can do; there is this Vipassana online course (there is a special very low/nil price for those in South Asia)
http://www.vipassana.com/course/
here is the link to Jundo Cohen's online sangha for Soto Zen meditation: http://www.treeleaf.org/
here is another link to an online Zen sangha, Thich Nhat Hanh community:
http://plumline.org/

Of course you can take the 3 Jewels yourself, studying and practice meditating, bowing and chanting Amida, Kannon's name or the Great Compassion Mantra on your own. There are many examples in the past of hermits, peasants who attained realization on their own. It takes dedication and drive. But you can do it!
glad to help you and with gasso
Rory

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzzCCo ... A/featured

Description

We are the 'Persatuan Penganut Agama Buddha Vajrayana Shingon Muryokoin', the Malaysian Chapter of the Japanese Koyasan Muryokoin Taiwan Branch (马来西亚真言宗无量光院分院), which started on April 26th, 2014 and dedicated to promoting Koyasan Shingon-shu Buddhism under the guidance of the Dai Ajari Rong Yong.

Address: No.13-1, Jalan Puteri 2/7, Bandar Puteri, 47100 Puchong, Malaysia.

Email: shingon.muryokoin@gmail.com

Activities
Weekly & Monthly: (Every Sunday at 10:00am) & Tri-annually: (Dharma Visits by the Dai Ajari Rong Yong)
More programmes are added on an 'as and when' basis.

Links:
Japan: https://www.muryokoin.org/int/ & http://muryokoin.net/
Taiwan: https://www.koyasan.org.tw
Malaysia
English Page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007400177020
Chinese Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Shingon- ... 8266281771

P.S. To Everyone else: ShineeSoul lives in MALAYSIA,where there is SHARIA LAW and he is a nominal MUSLIM, i'm shouting because I'm disgusted at how utterly ignorant you are of the lives of others ... read this and stop being self-centered and incredibly foolish:
http://www.global-briefing.org/2015/01/ ... amisation/
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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Seishin
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by Seishin » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:48 am

The things in this thread may also be of some help http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=12250
and here are some recordings of the Tendai daily service http://www.tendai.or.jp/danshinto/

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ShineeSeoul
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Re: How is the daily practice of Tendai?

Post by ShineeSeoul » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:16 pm

rory wrote:Hi ShineeSoul;
I've been thinking some more for ways to help you. Did you know there is a Shingon Temple in Malaysia? I found this:
from youtube (see links below). To learn Shingon and Tendai esoteric practices, it's true you have to do it in person with a teacher, that's their rule. But if you contact this temple below and the priest privately, I'm sure he will understand your difficult situation and would meet you privately to instruct you so that no one would know. Another thought is write to Tyler Dehn, Jikai, who is a priest in in Japan now and lives in Australia, maybe he can advise you and perhaps visit you. These would be the best suggestions.

Other things you can do; there is this Vipassana online course (there is a special very low/nil price for those in South Asia)
http://www.vipassana.com/course/
here is the link to Jundo Cohen's online sangha for Soto Zen meditation: http://www.treeleaf.org/
here is another link to an online Zen sangha, Thich Nhat Hanh community:
http://plumline.org/

Of course you can take the 3 Jewels yourself, studying and practice meditating, bowing and chanting Amida, Kannon's name or the Great Compassion Mantra on your own. There are many examples in the past of hermits, peasants who attained realization on their own. It takes dedication and drive. But you can do it!
glad to help you and with gasso
Rory

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzzCCo ... A/featured

Description

We are the 'Persatuan Penganut Agama Buddha Vajrayana Shingon Muryokoin', the Malaysian Chapter of the Japanese Koyasan Muryokoin Taiwan Branch (马来西亚真言宗无量光院分院), which started on April 26th, 2014 and dedicated to promoting Koyasan Shingon-shu Buddhism under the guidance of the Dai Ajari Rong Yong.

Address: No.13-1, Jalan Puteri 2/7, Bandar Puteri, 47100 Puchong, Malaysia.

Email: shingon.muryokoin@gmail.com

Activities
Weekly & Monthly: (Every Sunday at 10:00am) & Tri-annually: (Dharma Visits by the Dai Ajari Rong Yong)
More programmes are added on an 'as and when' basis.

Links:
Japan: https://www.muryokoin.org/int/ & http://muryokoin.net/
Taiwan: https://www.koyasan.org.tw
Malaysia
English Page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007400177020
Chinese Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Shingon- ... 8266281771

P.S. To Everyone else: ShineeSoul lives in MALAYSIA,where there is SHARIA LAW and he is a nominal MUSLIM, i'm shouting because I'm disgusted at how utterly ignorant you are of the lives of others ... read this and stop being self-centered and incredibly foolish:
http://www.global-briefing.org/2015/01/ ... amisation/
Thanks for your effort

unfortunatly, I don't think its possible to meet a teacher
for now, I will try to stick to my practices, I wouldn't do meditation, I will do chanting and bowing mostly, because it doesn't need teacher

:anjali:

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