The Three Truths

User avatar
rory
Posts: 1369
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 8:08 am
Location: SouthEast USA

Re: The Three Truths

Post by rory » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:]Well, there is Tendai vs Tiāntāi (and Tiāntāi vs the nascent works of its founders), and myriad stages of evolution for both.

The discourse on the mandalas reminds me of in Shingon, the "doctrine of the non-duality of the two mandalas" or something of the like, I think it was called, relating to the Diamond and Womb Realm mandalas. Did Tendai get this from cultural contact with Shingon, or is this the Tendai schools's own native system of interpretation of these mandalas that is different from Shingon discourse?
If you read Ryuichi Abe (Shingon pov) and Paul Groner, you (Tendai pov) you'll find the former asserting that Saicho received initiation into the two mandalas by Kukai, but Groner points out that Saicho himself asserted that he received initiation in China.
though Groner thinks he did not receive the Taizokai.

I just looked at Ryuichi Abe's The Weaving of Mantra
Abe says since there were unbridgeable differences: Saicho wanted the Esoteric teachings to be incorporated into The Tendai school and to integrate them into the exoteric Lotus sutra. And Kukai regarded the Mahavairocana Sutra and Vajrasekhara Sutra as paramount. Also Kukai maintained that the esoteric teachings required different hermeneutical and pedagogical methods. 44

Later Ennin of Tendai shu went to China during 37-848 to study and brought back a wealth of esoteric material and Shingon monks studied it as well. It's best to think of Shingon and Tendai as study groups and disciples went back and forth and learned and took transmissions from the others' materials.

Really Rev. Jikai is the one to ask, as he's a Tendai priest and Ajari, all I'm posting is just scholarly material from books.
A really interesting topic to discuss!
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

narhwal90
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am

Re: The Three Truths

Post by narhwal90 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:13 am

I beg the forum's pardon for injecting Nichiren again, but here is a document by L.Dolce

Criticism and Appropriation Nichiren's Attitude toward Esoteric Buddhism

https://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/nfile/2689

I suggest it is pertinent here because of the taimitsu/tomitsu concepts and practices current as Nichiren developed his material. It suggests a complex relationship between the two disciplines despite the well established division between the schools.

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1170
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: The Three Truths

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:38 am

If we approach the Three Truths from a perspective rooted in essence-function polarity (體用[不]二元?), does this correspond?

1 體, Essence
2 用, Function
3 (圓融)體用(就是說, '非二而二二而不二') Essence-Function, 非二而二二而不二, 'not-two-but-two, two-but-not-two'

?

My next question relates to the 圓融 of the 三諦 themselves. If the 中諦 is the 圓融 of the 第一義/paramārthasatya & the 世諦/saṃvṛtisatya, then why is there a 圓融三諦? The 圓融二諦 of the 中諦 is enough. Does this stem from a bad reading (on my part) of the 中諦 which confuses the 非二而二二而不二 of the 中諦 with the 非三而三三而不三 of the 圓融三諦?
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests