Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

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Coëmgenu
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Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:43 am

Is 妙法蓮華經玄義 translated into English?
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:50 pm

For those of us who can't read Chinese, what's the English title?

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:54 pm

妙法蓮華經玄義

Miào Fǎ Lián Huá Jīng Xuán Yì

Subtle Dharma Lotus Flower Sūtra's Profound(/Hidden) Meaning
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

crazy-man
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by crazy-man » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:58 pm

i found this

Chih-i (538-597) : the abstruse meaning of the Sūtra of the Lotus Flower of the fine dharma (Taishō vol.33, no.1716)
Author: Haiyan Shen Public defense : in 2004
Ph.D. dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Letters & Philosophy, Oriental Languages and Cultures
https://lib.ugent.be/catalog/rug01:002253063

A Hermeneutic Approach to the Lotus Sutra —On Tiantai Zhiyi’s Work, The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra
Author: Haiyan Shen
http://www.academia.edu/5542835/_%E7%B4 ... otus_Sutra

Chih-i's System of Sign Interpretation
Author: Haiyan Shen
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1aTbIwdifQ

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:07 pm

crazy-man wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:58 pm
i found this

Chih-i (538-597) : the abstruse meaning of the Sūtra of the Lotus Flower of the fine dharma (Taishō vol.33, no.1716)
Author: Haiyan Shen Public defense : in 2004
Ph.D. dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Letters & Philosophy, Oriental Languages and Cultures
https://lib.ugent.be/catalog/rug01:002253063

A Hermeneutic Approach to the Lotus Sutra —On Tiantai Zhiyi’s Work, The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra
Author: Haiyan Shen
http://www.academia.edu/5542835/_%E7%B4 ... otus_Sutra

Chih-i's System of Sign Interpretation
Author: Haiyan Shen
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1aTbIwdifQ
Thank you! :namaste:
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:41 pm

Part of it is translated in Paul Swanson’s book T’ien ‘ai Philosophy.

Then there’s this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/81886294 ... ref=plSrch

But I’m not clear if this is an actual translation of the text or not.

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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:14 pm

markatex wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:41 pm
Part of it is translated in Paul Swanson’s book T’ien ‘ai Philosophy.

Then there’s this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/81886294 ... ref=plSrch

But I’m not clear if this is an actual translation of the text or not.
It is marketed as a full translation, but there is a lot in the Chinese that I don't see in Swanson's rendering. For instance, an interesting section says something about the 十惱亂 (ten disruptors of the holy life), which have to do with the prohibitions against bodhisattva activity in Ch 14, but I can't find the section in Swanson.
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:51 pm

I haven’t finished Swanson’s book, but the translation of Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra there isn’t complete, only what he considers the most important parts. I’d love to read the whole thing at some point. Interestingly, Swanson calls this Zhiyi’s magnum opus, not Maka Shikan.

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Queequeg
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Queequeg » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Swanson only translates part of the Profound Meaning.

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.

This is not Zhiyi's only commentary on the Lotus Sutra. There is also a line by line commentary on the sutra. It has not been translated into English except excerpts in embedded in other sources such as Nichiren's writings.
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markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.
I keep reading “complete outline,” which seems to mean it’s not a translation of the actual text.

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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:11 pm

markatex wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.
I keep reading “complete outline,” which seems to mean it’s not a translation of the actual text.
Correct. It's a section by section outline/synopsis.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:12 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:11 pm
markatex wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.
I keep reading “complete outline,” which seems to mean it’s not a translation of the actual text.
Correct. It's a section by section outline/synopsis.
I’m glad I got confirmation of that before I shelled out $70 for it. :jumping:

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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:45 pm

It's good for what it is. But yeah, if you're looking for a translation, you'll be disappointed. That said, it does have a lot of useful detail.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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