Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

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Coëmgenu
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Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:43 am

Is 妙法蓮華經玄義 translated into English?
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:50 pm

For those of us who can't read Chinese, what's the English title?

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:54 pm

妙法蓮華經玄義

Miào Fǎ Lián Huá Jīng Xuán Yì

Subtle Dharma Lotus Flower Sūtra's Profound(/Hidden) Meaning
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

crazy-man
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by crazy-man » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:58 pm

i found this

Chih-i (538-597) : the abstruse meaning of the Sūtra of the Lotus Flower of the fine dharma (Taishō vol.33, no.1716)
Author: Haiyan Shen Public defense : in 2004
Ph.D. dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Letters & Philosophy, Oriental Languages and Cultures
https://lib.ugent.be/catalog/rug01:002253063

A Hermeneutic Approach to the Lotus Sutra —On Tiantai Zhiyi’s Work, The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra
Author: Haiyan Shen
http://www.academia.edu/5542835/_%E7%B4 ... otus_Sutra

Chih-i's System of Sign Interpretation
Author: Haiyan Shen
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1aTbIwdifQ

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:07 pm

crazy-man wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:58 pm
i found this

Chih-i (538-597) : the abstruse meaning of the Sūtra of the Lotus Flower of the fine dharma (Taishō vol.33, no.1716)
Author: Haiyan Shen Public defense : in 2004
Ph.D. dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Letters & Philosophy, Oriental Languages and Cultures
https://lib.ugent.be/catalog/rug01:002253063

A Hermeneutic Approach to the Lotus Sutra —On Tiantai Zhiyi’s Work, The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra
Author: Haiyan Shen
http://www.academia.edu/5542835/_%E7%B4 ... otus_Sutra

Chih-i's System of Sign Interpretation
Author: Haiyan Shen
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1aTbIwdifQ
Thank you! :namaste:
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:41 pm

Part of it is translated in Paul Swanson’s book T’ien ‘ai Philosophy.

Then there’s this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/81886294 ... ref=plSrch

But I’m not clear if this is an actual translation of the text or not.

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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:14 pm

markatex wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:41 pm
Part of it is translated in Paul Swanson’s book T’ien ‘ai Philosophy.

Then there’s this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/81886294 ... ref=plSrch

But I’m not clear if this is an actual translation of the text or not.
It is marketed as a full translation, but there is a lot in the Chinese that I don't see in Swanson's rendering. For instance, an interesting section says something about the 十惱亂 (ten disruptors of the holy life), which have to do with the prohibitions against bodhisattva activity in Ch 14, but I can't find the section in Swanson.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:51 pm

I haven’t finished Swanson’s book, but the translation of Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra there isn’t complete, only what he considers the most important parts. I’d love to read the whole thing at some point. Interestingly, Swanson calls this Zhiyi’s magnum opus, not Maka Shikan.

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Queequeg
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Queequeg » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Swanson only translates part of the Profound Meaning.

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.

This is not Zhiyi's only commentary on the Lotus Sutra. There is also a line by line commentary on the sutra. It has not been translated into English except excerpts in embedded in other sources such as Nichiren's writings.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.
I keep reading “complete outline,” which seems to mean it’s not a translation of the actual text.

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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:11 pm

markatex wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.
I keep reading “complete outline,” which seems to mean it’s not a translation of the actual text.
Correct. It's a section by section outline/synopsis.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

markatex
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by markatex » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:12 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:11 pm
markatex wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.
I keep reading “complete outline,” which seems to mean it’s not a translation of the actual text.
Correct. It's a section by section outline/synopsis.
I’m glad I got confirmation of that before I shelled out $70 for it. :jumping:

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Queequeg
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:45 pm

It's good for what it is. But yeah, if you're looking for a translation, you'll be disappointed. That said, it does have a lot of useful detail.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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FromTheEarth
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Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Post by FromTheEarth » Tue May 01, 2018 7:44 am

Ven. Zhiyi actually has written/taught two commentaries on the Lotus Sutra. One is the Profound Meaning, the other is Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra (法華文句 Fahua Wenzhu).
From my personal point of view, the Profound Meaning is more like a systematic attempt to re-interpret the totality of Buddha's teachings based on the Lotus Sutra. In other words, it is essentially doctrinal in many aspects, and you can see Ven. Zhiyi actively interacts with all the Buddhist schools that were present in his era (occasionally with Confucianism and Taoism as well). Also, technically, it is a piece of introducing the general idea of the sutra by way of interpreting the title of the sutra.
That being said, the Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra (法華文句 Fahua Wenzhu) is more like a commentary as we might normally conceive. There, Ven. Zhiyi explained the sutra word by word, sentence by sentence. For each paragraph (sometimes a sentence, some times a single word), he offers explanations in terms of four aspects: 因緣 (in what occasion/due to which conditions Buddha teaches the Dharma this way), 約教 (to which period of Buddha's teaching/kinds of Buddha's eight teachings this paragraph belongs), 本跡 (how this paragraph reveals about Buddha's authentic person, in contrast to his person presented to the world in the forms that may be suitable for the audience but not accurate of Buddha himself) and 觀心 (how we should use this paragraph to observe our minds/meditate). I would, risking distorting the original meaning of these four aspects, say that the four aspects are respectively contextual/historical, doctrinal, theological/soteriological and practical/spiritual. So this work is really encompassing and also significant for any learners of the Lotus Sutra. Unfortunately, given my limited knowledge, I could not find any English translation of this work.

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