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Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:43 am
by Coëmgenu
Is 妙法蓮華經玄義 translated into English?

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:50 pm
by markatex
For those of us who can't read Chinese, what's the English title?

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:54 pm
by Coëmgenu
妙法蓮華經玄義

Miào Fǎ Lián Huá Jīng Xuán Yì

Subtle Dharma Lotus Flower Sūtra's Profound(/Hidden) Meaning

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:58 pm
by crazy-man
i found this

Chih-i (538-597) : the abstruse meaning of the Sūtra of the Lotus Flower of the fine dharma (Taishō vol.33, no.1716)
Author: Haiyan Shen Public defense : in 2004
Ph.D. dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Letters & Philosophy, Oriental Languages and Cultures
https://lib.ugent.be/catalog/rug01:002253063

A Hermeneutic Approach to the Lotus Sutra —On Tiantai Zhiyi’s Work, The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra
Author: Haiyan Shen
http://www.academia.edu/5542835/_%E7%B4 ... otus_Sutra

Chih-i's System of Sign Interpretation
Author: Haiyan Shen
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1aTbIwdifQ

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:07 pm
by Coëmgenu
crazy-man wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:58 pm
i found this

Chih-i (538-597) : the abstruse meaning of the Sūtra of the Lotus Flower of the fine dharma (Taishō vol.33, no.1716)
Author: Haiyan Shen Public defense : in 2004
Ph.D. dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Letters & Philosophy, Oriental Languages and Cultures
https://lib.ugent.be/catalog/rug01:002253063

A Hermeneutic Approach to the Lotus Sutra —On Tiantai Zhiyi’s Work, The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra
Author: Haiyan Shen
http://www.academia.edu/5542835/_%E7%B4 ... otus_Sutra

Chih-i's System of Sign Interpretation
Author: Haiyan Shen
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1aTbIwdifQ
Thank you! :namaste:

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:41 pm
by markatex
Part of it is translated in Paul Swanson’s book T’ien ‘ai Philosophy.

Then there’s this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/81886294 ... ref=plSrch

But I’m not clear if this is an actual translation of the text or not.

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:14 pm
by Coëmgenu
markatex wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:41 pm
Part of it is translated in Paul Swanson’s book T’ien ‘ai Philosophy.

Then there’s this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/81886294 ... ref=plSrch

But I’m not clear if this is an actual translation of the text or not.
It is marketed as a full translation, but there is a lot in the Chinese that I don't see in Swanson's rendering. For instance, an interesting section says something about the 十惱亂 (ten disruptors of the holy life), which have to do with the prohibitions against bodhisattva activity in Ch 14, but I can't find the section in Swanson.

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:51 pm
by markatex
I haven’t finished Swanson’s book, but the translation of Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra there isn’t complete, only what he considers the most important parts. I’d love to read the whole thing at some point. Interestingly, Swanson calls this Zhiyi’s magnum opus, not Maka Shikan.

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm
by Queequeg
Swanson only translates part of the Profound Meaning.

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.

This is not Zhiyi's only commentary on the Lotus Sutra. There is also a line by line commentary on the sutra. It has not been translated into English except excerpts in embedded in other sources such as Nichiren's writings.

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 pm
by markatex
Queequeg wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.
I keep reading “complete outline,” which seems to mean it’s not a translation of the actual text.

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:11 pm
by Queequeg
markatex wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.
I keep reading “complete outline,” which seems to mean it’s not a translation of the actual text.
Correct. It's a section by section outline/synopsis.

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:12 pm
by markatex
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:11 pm
markatex wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Shen provides a complete outline which is fairly detailed.
I keep reading “complete outline,” which seems to mean it’s not a translation of the actual text.
Correct. It's a section by section outline/synopsis.
I’m glad I got confirmation of that before I shelled out $70 for it. :jumping:

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:45 pm
by Queequeg
It's good for what it is. But yeah, if you're looking for a translation, you'll be disappointed. That said, it does have a lot of useful detail.

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:44 am
by FromTheEarth
Ven. Zhiyi actually has written/taught two commentaries on the Lotus Sutra. One is the Profound Meaning, the other is Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra (法華文句 Fahua Wenzhu).
From my personal point of view, the Profound Meaning is more like a systematic attempt to re-interpret the totality of Buddha's teachings based on the Lotus Sutra. In other words, it is essentially doctrinal in many aspects, and you can see Ven. Zhiyi actively interacts with all the Buddhist schools that were present in his era (occasionally with Confucianism and Taoism as well). Also, technically, it is a piece of introducing the general idea of the sutra by way of interpreting the title of the sutra.
That being said, the Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra (法華文句 Fahua Wenzhu) is more like a commentary as we might normally conceive. There, Ven. Zhiyi explained the sutra word by word, sentence by sentence. For each paragraph (sometimes a sentence, some times a single word), he offers explanations in terms of four aspects: 因緣 (in what occasion/due to which conditions Buddha teaches the Dharma this way), 約教 (to which period of Buddha's teaching/kinds of Buddha's eight teachings this paragraph belongs), 本跡 (how this paragraph reveals about Buddha's authentic person, in contrast to his person presented to the world in the forms that may be suitable for the audience but not accurate of Buddha himself) and 觀心 (how we should use this paragraph to observe our minds/meditate). I would, risking distorting the original meaning of these four aspects, say that the four aspects are respectively contextual/historical, doctrinal, theological/soteriological and practical/spiritual. So this work is really encompassing and also significant for any learners of the Lotus Sutra. Unfortunately, given my limited knowledge, I could not find any English translation of this work.

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:06 pm
by stumpy
For what its worth, BDK has Zhiyi's Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra on its "todo list", but not his Words and Phrases (Taishō No. 1718). Hopefully they'll either change their minds, or some scholar will do us the great service of translating the work.

Re: Ven Zhiyi Lotus Sūtra Commentary translation?

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:31 pm
by Queequeg
Is anyone working on it?

The problem is finding scholars willing to do the translation.

I kind of would prefer the commentary first... but that's just the nerd in me. From a general audience view point, I understand the Profound Meaning is more interesting.