Shingon fire ritual

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BuddhistPeasant
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Shingon fire ritual

Post by BuddhistPeasant » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:19 pm

Do you know where I can find a description of the Shingon fire ritual and the meaning of the gestures? Something like a detailed explanation. I saw many videos on youtube with lay people in attendance and so I suppose its not something secret. I am curious of all the meanings involved in the fire ceremony.

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Mr. G
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by Mr. G » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:29 pm

Richard K. Payne wrote a nice book called 'Tantric Ritual of Japan; Feeding the Gods--The Shingon Fire Ritual'
  • How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu

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BuddhistPeasant
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by BuddhistPeasant » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:02 pm

Thank you! I will check that book!

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BuddhistPeasant
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by BuddhistPeasant » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:05 pm

does anybody else have any suggestions or can contribute with something to this topic? Perhaps somebody who attended such fire ceremonies or who listened to some explanations

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:41 pm

BuddhistPeasant wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:19 pm
I suppose its not something secret
The rituals themselves are performed in public, but I imagine the meanings of the gestures etc. are esoteric/secret.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

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Zhen Li
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by Zhen Li » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:24 am

BuddhistPeasant wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:05 pm
does anybody else have any suggestions or can contribute with something to this topic? Perhaps somebody who attended such fire ceremonies or who listened to some explanations
I attended one at Koyasan in January and I saw one here in Taiwan last month at Wuzhishan (Taiwanese Shingon). I can say that Payne's book is pretty much all you need to understand what's going on.

The meaning of the gestures, etc., are all explained in Payne's book. They're only esoteric in that you need initiation to perform them.

Perhaps if there are some more specific questions they can be addressed, but the information is quite detailed so you need to do some reading: a message board post can't satisfy this matter.

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WuMing
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by WuMing » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:14 am

Zhen Li wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:24 am
... I attended one at Koyasan in January and I saw one here in Taiwan last month at Wuzhishan (Taiwanese Shingon). I can say that Payne's book is pretty much all you need to understand what's going on. ...
If only it would be that easy! :shrug:
今以佛眼觀之佛與眾生同住解脫之床。無此無彼無二平等。
Now, observing with the eye of the Buddha, both the Buddha and ordinary beings are in the same liberated state. There is neither this nor that: there is only non-duality and identity.
- 空海 Kūkai in Unjigi 吽字義 The Meaning of the Letter Hūṃ
- Kūkai on the Philosophy of Language by Takagi Shingen and Dreitlein Eijō
_______
Śrī Singha said to Padmasambhava:
Since buddhas and sentient beings are inseparable and the same, it is necessary to respect all sentient beings as being on the same level with the buddhas. Can you?
- translated by Malcolm N. Smith

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Zhen Li
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by Zhen Li » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:10 pm

WuMing wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:14 am
Zhen Li wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:24 am
... I attended one at Koyasan in January and I saw one here in Taiwan last month at Wuzhishan (Taiwanese Shingon). I can say that Payne's book is pretty much all you need to understand what's going on. ...
If only it would be that easy! :shrug:
Saso's book on Tendai Goma was also helpful and you can switch the order of a few things around for the Shingon case. Of course there are some secret mantras that are mentioned but not disclosed, but from the conceptual point of view, I think it is not too hard to understand. To truly master the practice is another question.

There's also a lot of resources on Hindu homa and Nepalese Buddhist homa. I am sure there must be stuff on Tibetan homa but it's just not my area of study.

Wicked Yeshe
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by Wicked Yeshe » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:05 pm

There is a book from vajra publications called "Buddhist Fire Ritual in Japan" which is basically a manual on how to do it yourself. It includes photos step by step and all of the mantras and mudras.

Then you can buy all the ritual utensils from rakuten and start out.

https://global.rakuten.com/en/search/?h ... butsudanya

Good luck! :stirthepot:

Wicked Yeshe
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by Wicked Yeshe » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:10 pm

By the way. Always consult a teacher before attempting these things. It could be dangerous not to do so.

Not to make anyone play around on their own..

tktru
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by tktru » Wed May 02, 2018 4:16 am

Wicked Yeshe wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:10 pm
By the way. Always consult a teacher before attempting these things. It could be dangerous not to do so.

Not to make anyone play around on their own..
I can’t tell whether your last post was meant to be in jest, but I’ll just point out that in Shingon, without the proper abhiseka and instruction from an authorized acharya, by attempting to perform the ritual yourself, even if you had all the items at your disposal, would be fruitless, and yes dangerous. Keep in mind that any manuals that are floating online won’t always contain the correct mantras or mudra formations, and if so the instructions will sometimes be intentionally corrupted, these parts are left to the teacher to point out the mistakes. And as Rev. Eijo pointed out many times before, that without having been ordained, and having gone through the fourfold preliminary training, and finally receiving abhiseka, you can’t perform these rituals.

Wicked Yeshe
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Re: Shingon fire ritual

Post by Wicked Yeshe » Wed May 09, 2018 1:13 am

I wouldn't try it at home! It is important to point out. Lot's of shitty ninjutsu flirts with vajrayana and that's basicly broscience land. I'm off that one for sure.

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