Western Myth of Zen

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Malcolm
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Re: Western Myth of Zen

Post by Malcolm » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:57 pm

Astus wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:51 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:50 pm
Your answer is a non sequitur.
In that case I was simply wrong in my presumption that by that you were rejecting the whole section on there being more to Mahayana than having motivation. :anjali:

The point was that you cited a passage from a sūtra which referred to āryabodhisattvas. But there are other bodhisattvas on the paths of application and accumulation, below the path of seeing. I was pointing out simply that any practice one with Mahāyāna motivation becomes a Mahāyāna practice, for example, if one ordains as a bhikṣu with the intent to attain buddhahood to liberate all sentient beings, that ordination becomes a Mahāyāna practice by definition. The true difference between Hinayāna and Mahāyāna is whether or not one practices Dharma with the intent to attain anuttarasamyaksambodhi or not.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Astus
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Re: Western Myth of Zen

Post by Astus » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:21 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:57 pm
any practice one with Mahāyāna motivation becomes a Mahāyāna practice
How can motivation be a sufficient criteria? That would mean even a mistaken idea about the path leads to buddhahood.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Malcolm
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Re: Western Myth of Zen

Post by Malcolm » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:53 pm

Astus wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:21 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:57 pm
any practice one with Mahāyāna motivation becomes a Mahāyāna practice
How can motivation be a sufficient criteria? That would mean even a mistaken idea about the path leads to buddhahood.
No, that consequence is an exaggeration. Mistaken ideas about the path are impediments to awakening, but they are not impediments to gathering accumulations, devotion, and so on, and gradually, one will overcome such mistakes, especially if one learns to train in ultimate bodhicitta, śamatha and vipaśyāna.

However, the force of generating the initial thought of awakening are so powerful that as Santideva says:

The moment bodhicitta arises,
the wretched one confined in the prison of samsara
is called “a child of the Sugatas,”
and worldly gods and people offer homage.


And the Avatamska states:

Child of good lineage, bodhicitta is the seed of Dharma of the Buddhas.

The Vīradattagṛhapatiparipṛcchā states:

Whatever is the merit of bodhicitta,
if that existed in form,
it would more than fill
all of space.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Astus
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Posts: 6915
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Western Myth of Zen

Post by Astus » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:10 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:53 pm
Mistaken ideas about the path are impediments to awakening, but they are not impediments to gathering accumulations, devotion, and so on, and gradually, one will overcome such mistakes, especially if one learns to train in ultimate bodhicitta, śamatha and vipaśyāna.
True, it is the beginning of the path and one may have erroneous views. Still, in order to establish motivation, it has its own conditions.

The Awakening of Mahayana Faith (ch 3, tr Hakeda, p 79) talks of three possible types: "Briefly, three types of aspiration for enlightenment can be distinguished. The first is the aspiration for enlightenment through the perfection of faith. The second is the aspiration for enlightenment through understanding and through deeds. The third is the aspiration for enlightenment through insight." There faith is the very beginning, where one has to cultivate three minds: "The first is the mind characterized by straightforwardness, for it correctly meditates on the principle of Suchness. The second is the mind of profoundness, for there is no limit to its joyful accumulation of all kinds of goodness. The third is the mind filled with great compassion, for it wishes to uproot the sufferings of all sentient beings." (p 80-81)

Asanga defines a mahayanika this way: "What is a person belonging to the Great Vehicle? It is a person who, having obtained or not the attainments, dwelling in the Dharma of the Bodhisattvas, having sharp faculties by nature, set on the liberation of all beings, having the intention of attaining unestablished Nirvana, dependent on the Canon of the Bodhisattvas, practicing the major and minor virtues by means of the cultivation of vigor, ripens beings, cultivates the pure stage of the Buddhas, receives the prediction and attains Perfect Awakening." (Abhidharmasamuccaya, tr Boin-Webb, p 200)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Malcolm
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Re: Western Myth of Zen

Post by Malcolm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:25 pm

Astus wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:10 pm


Asanga defines a mahayanika this way: "What is a person belonging to the Great Vehicle? It is a person who, having obtained or not the attainments, dwelling in the Dharma of the Bodhisattvas, having sharp faculties by nature, set on the liberation of all beings, having the intention of attaining unestablished Nirvana, dependent on the Canon of the Bodhisattvas, practicing the major and minor virtues by means of the cultivation of vigor, ripens beings, cultivates the pure stage of the Buddhas, receives the prediction and attains Perfect Awakening." (Abhidharmasamuccaya, tr Boin-Webb, p 200)
I follow the Madhyamaka tradition of bodhisattva vow, not the Yogacāra system. They are quite different. Bodhisattvacāryāvatāra is an example of the former, rather than the latter. Chandragomin's Twenty is an example of the latter.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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