Great Doubt Zen

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Re: Great Doubt Zen

Post by Kaccāni » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:08 pm

oushi wrote:
Gwenn Dana wrote:So I go with the flow. What comes, comes.
Like we all, surrendering or resisting. But that does not remove the suffering of existence. :(
At least it has no strong pull to it. The four noble truths become ku. Of course, that does not make them nonexistent, and also not suffering nonexistent. It does not stop defilements for all beings :(

Well, considering daily life as continuous practice, at least oscillations disappear. Whenever the arising of a defilement becomes conscious, it is left alone. It appears to be true what they say about the challenges becoming harder since whatever remains can consume more of the space, when not noted in its beginning. And is attacked harder. Sometimes I think there is an invitation "test me" written on its forehead, where a constand urge for testing contributes to the problem rather than helps it. That makes it difficult to even speak about it. Or you could say in some sarcastic way it "deepens the practice". Unnecessarily so. But that doesn´t make that dependency nonexistent either.

And who could be mindful in all instances except a perfect being. A relief, that that does not seem to be necessary when there is the certainty, reassuring oneself that it will subside once returning to proper mindfulness when it has been noted. If just everybody could break free from that constant pull a lot of storms tormenting our societies could vanish. People wanting to be happy shooting each other although there is enough food to eat and place to stay. Let alone few individuals splitting the masses by speech of disharmony, frightening and superstition.

What could one do more than not participating in those waves and send signs of love?
The subtle invitation will have to be taken, any subtle push would only contribute to resistance and spawn defilements of its own.

Enough sighing.
Best wishes
Shush! I'm doing nose-picking practice!

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Re: Great Doubt Zen

Post by Lindama » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:53 pm

LastLegend wrote: Great doubt in oneself-use head to doubt head.


Mind ground where seeds grow into flowers.

Wonderful last, you always nail it with few words...

great doubt as a verb.... activity of mind. skillful means to reduce a great mind to tears... exhaustion practice for some. the greatest doubt is nothing to be proud of in the mind... it's still smoke.

great doubt as a noun.... secret meaning where seeds grow into flowers, pointing to the inconceivable... at that point it can only be called doubt by those who verb it as a sorting mind. otherwise, everything is coming up roses.
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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Re: Great Doubt Zen

Post by Jamyang_Tsering » Mon May 19, 2014 1:22 am

Buddha said something like this "Doubt everythign no matter who said it even if I have said it doubt everything and confirm with your own common sence." Somthing like this he said. :anjali:

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Great Doubt Zen

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon May 19, 2014 6:02 am

Dan74 wrote:... Great doubt as you must know, is a Linchi/Rinzai Zen term, Kim, and koan work requires some form of pressing further. Initially it's an effort, great effort, later it is maybe more like what you or oushi describe.

Here's some good stuff from Ven Huifeng posted some years back ...

And here are some instructions worth listening to: ... #more-2770
Thanks, Dan.
By the time I entered the conversation the OP's Zen focus had been diluted somewhat so I was not thinking of "Great Doubt" in any highly technical sense. Perhaps if it had retained its capitalisation or quotation marks ...
Never mind. Ven Huifeng's words, and yours, have put me back on track and I will check out your links when I have time.


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