James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

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dharmagoat
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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by dharmagoat » Sat May 20, 2017 9:38 am

Wayfarer wrote:As I said, by it being internalised, by not having to make judgements. I suppose there will be some times when you still need to deliberate over some things, but I think, like anything else, right action is a learned behaviour; once you internalise it, then it is second nature.
The benevolent behaviour may be acquired, but the benevolence, the motivation to follow that behaviour, when unrestricted, shows itself to be inherent, and so the behaviour becomes something more than second nature.

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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by White Lotus » Sat May 20, 2017 4:07 pm

When emptiness is understood or seen then it is known that there are no three poisons; nor were there ever three poisons. Nor any liberation. This is "not liberation." all is empty.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by White Lotus » Sat May 20, 2017 4:22 pm

"Feeding ten billion Buddhas who appear in the three divisions of time won't be on a par with feeding a single person who thinks of nothing, abides nowhere, and has nothing to attain."(BDK 'Zen Texts' p.80/A Treatise on Letting Zen Flourish; Eisai). There is no attainment.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

boda
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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by boda » Sat May 20, 2017 5:39 pm

Anonymous X wrote:
boda wrote:
Hi Astus,

At the end of this blogpost you write: "No buddha can make people enlightened. Everyone has to do it oneself."

If I may ask, how exactly do you know this?
There really is no sense in trying to argue this one way or another. It doesn't matter.
Who's arguing? :shrug:

boda
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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by boda » Sat May 20, 2017 6:05 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
boda wrote:
Wayfarer wrote:It means, rising above the need to make such judgements. It's not a matter of abandoning the understanding of right and wrong, but understanding it so well you don't have to think about it. It is called, in learning theory, 'unconscious competence'.
This theory may apply well to leaning a new skill like playing the piano, however right and wrong, in the sphere of morality, is not so straightforward. Also, right and wrong are essentially value judgements. How does one rise above the need to make value judgments?
As I said, by it being internalised, by not having to make judgements.
The judgment is still being made, it's merely done unconsciously. This is not always a good thing, as when expressed in various types of prejudice.
I suppose there will be some times when you still need to deliberate over some things, but I think, like anything else, right action is a learned behaviour; once you internalise it, then it is second nature.
I suppose if someone lives a vary sheltered life they may not be presented with many moral dilemmas.

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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by Wayfarer » Sat May 20, 2017 11:37 pm

boda wrote: The judgment is still being made, it's merely done unconsciously. This is not always a good thing, as when expressed in various types of prejudice
Which is why self-awareness is so important, and also, so foundational to every school of Buddhism.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by Anonymous X » Sun May 21, 2017 4:47 am

boda wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:
boda wrote:
Hi Astus,

At the end of this blogpost you write: "No buddha can make people enlightened. Everyone has to do it oneself."

If I may ask, how exactly do you know this?
There really is no sense in trying to argue this one way or another. It doesn't matter.
Who's arguing? :shrug:
Just a figure of speech.

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dharmagoat
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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by dharmagoat » Sun May 21, 2017 5:50 am

Let's be honest, when we repeat the words of others, we don't know the validity of the content, we just trust the source. So why do we trust the source when we don't know the validity of the content?

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Malcolm
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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by Malcolm » Sun May 21, 2017 1:46 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
boda wrote: The judgment is still being made, it's merely done unconsciously. This is not always a good thing, as when expressed in various types of prejudice
Which is why self-awareness is so important, and also, so foundational to every school of Buddhism.
I am assume you mean mindfulness here, knowing what you are doing when you are doing it.
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Re: James Ford on kensho, from Pathos

Post by Wayfarer » Mon May 22, 2017 7:15 am

Yes that's what I mean. Prejudice is generally an example of 'unconscious bias', is it not? So if you were mindful, then you would see that as it arose, presumably. (Which isn't to say that anyone who meditates is necessarily automatically free from prejudices, but that would be the aspiration, I would hope.)
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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