Zen Practice Forms

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KeithA
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Zen Practice Forms

Post by KeithA » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:45 am

Hi all,

In this interesting thread, Meido said the following:
In fact, i would argue that a Zen lineage that holds up one single practice as solely sufficient and applicable for everyone - rather than setting forth an approach to practice (any practice) taking kensho as its gate and thereafter its basis - has lost the thread of what Zen is. But that's perhaps off topic here.
What say you, fellow Zen folk? In the tradition I practice in (Kwan Um), we teach a wide range of practices, assuming that practitioners will have an affinity for one practice or another.

Our practice manual offers the following guidance:

Technique 1: counting the breaths
This practice, often recommended for beginners, brings attention to each breath and helps to still
and focus the mind. The count may be done on either the inhalation or exhalation. The count is
done either up to three or up to ten and then repeated for the duration of the sitting period. If the
count is lost, then the practitioner returns to one.

Technique 2: keeping a question
Having a great question is fundamental to Zen practice. The questions most often used are “What
am I?” or “What is this?” (in Korean “Shi Shim Ma?”). Let go of all thinking, opinions and desires
and continually return to the questioning. This practice is usually co-ordinated with the breath.
The question may be asked during the inhalation, followed by a prolonged “Don’t Know” on the
exhalation; or the question may be asked on the exhalation. Both techniques promote a return to
the before-thinking mind.

Technique 3: mantra practice
Using a mantra to calm the mind and strengthen the center is another technique used by Zen
practitioners. The main difference between the mantras is the length of the mantra used and the
mantra’s direction. Generally the more incessant the thinking, the shorter the mantra should be.
The usual technique is to recite the mantra constantly, paying attention to it and allowing all
other thinking to drop away. This takes some practice since it is very easy to let one part of the
brain “chant” the mantra while the other part is thinking about dinner or going to the movies.
When this happens, gently bring the mind back to the mantra without any judgement. The most
common mantras recommended for beginners are the two listed below.

1) Clear mind, clear mind, clear mind, don’t know
This mantra is usually suggested to beginners in conjunction with a breathing exercise. Breathe
in to a count of 3, saying “clear mind” at each count and breathe out to a count of 7 saying
‘dooooonnnn’t knnnnooooooow’ just once for the whole 7 count. The count may vary with the
individual, but the exhalation must be more than twice as long as the inhalation.

2) Kwan Seum Bosal
This is the Korean name of the Bodhisattva of Compassion, Avalokitesvara. This mantra is commonly
suggested for people whose minds cannot be quiet one minute or who cannot concentrate
for very long. Because it is short it can be repeated over and over (usually with a set of beads for
counting). The usual recommendation is for 3000 to 10000 a day for someone who really wants
to clear their mind of a particular problem. It is also used on a daily basis by many people as part
of their sitting meditation technique.
More advanced students often use the entire Great Dharani as a mantra, reciting it sub-vocally
as fast as possible over and over again.

Technique 4: chanting
Although the individual chants—especially the Great Dharani—may be done alone as mantras,
chanting done in a group is also meditation practice. The key to chanting correctly is to chant
with 100 percent focus and energy: just loud enough to hear your own voice, and softly enough
to hear everyone else in the room. This allows everyone to follow the moktak master for the chant
as there is no one voice over-powering all the rest. Also people who have a hard time singing in
key can then blend in with everyone and the sound from the chant in group will truly be togetheraction–all
minds becoming one.
Kido chanting is an especially strong form of chanting meditation.

Technique 5: prostrations
Prostrations are a very powerful technique for seeing and working through the karma of a difficult
situation because both the mind and the body are involved. Something that might take days of
sitting to digest may be digested in a much shorter time with prostrations. A common practice,
especially popular in Korea, is to do 1000 bows a day (actually 1080). This can be done all at once
or as is usually the case, spread out through the day. For instance,
1 set for morning bows,
2 sets before breakfast,
2 sets at lunch time,
2 sets mid-afternoon,
1 set before evening practice,
2 sets after evening practice.
This is a demanding schedule. Practitioners often commit to to 300 or 500 bows a day.

Technique 6: clear mind meditation
This form of meditation involves just sitting and being aware of what is going on at just this
moment. This is moment-to-moment mind. It hears the birds in the trees, the cars going by, the
planes overhead, and the children playing outside. To the clear mind there is no such thing as
‘noisy’, it all just ‘is.’ This is not a technique for beginners, but is an out-growth of experience
with the previous meditation techniques.
I am curious how other traditions handle this.

regards,
Keith
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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Lindama
Posts: 636
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by Lindama » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:31 am

Keith, I'm not sure why you felt the need to split this topic..... I'd say that Meido is right on! I have not seen Meido say this before, but it is consistent with what I see in him. And, I can breath out and relax....

His comments include everything you say about Kwan Um.... as far as no single practice.

Since my beginning, I do not understand, why we need to compare and contrast traditions.... it leads to a confusing state of affairs for some.... just as my neighborhood is currently in a heated discussion about the new encampment of homeless ppl displaced by the recent devastating fires in Santa Rosa and the ongoing homeless populations... it's a mix and hard to tell who is who anymore. Picture a vacant parking lot now full of RV's and neighbors projecting garbage and it's non-removal... and OMG the syringes that must be in those mysterious black garbage bags, if they even contain garbage... or maybe clothing taken out in a rush .... and OMG, how it is causing our property values to decrease... and, OMG, the person who often works with the homeless in other areas who offered to help them take away the garbage if it even needs to be taken away has been accused of enabling them ... just to name a few other traditions that we might not practice. Ofc, it's not about the garbage as Arlo Guthrie knew :smile: and there in lies the real practice...... Just ask Alice, tho she doesn't live at the restaurant... Alice's Restaurant. (ancient history for some of you)

I've been seeing, purity has it's price.

linda
KeithA wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:45 am
Hi all,

In this interesting thread, Meido said the following:
In fact, i would argue that a Zen lineage that holds up one single practice as solely sufficient and applicable for everyone - rather than setting forth an approach to practice (any practice) taking kensho as its gate and thereafter its basis - has lost the thread of what Zen is. But that's perhaps off topic here.
What say you, fellow Zen folk? In the tradition I practice in (Kwan Um), we teach a wide range of practices, assuming that practitioners will have an affinity for one practice or another.

Our practice manual offers the following guidance:

Technique 1: counting the breaths
This practice, often recommended for beginners, brings attention to each breath and helps to still
and focus the mind. The count may be done on either the inhalation or exhalation. The count is
done either up to three or up to ten and then repeated for the duration of the sitting period. If the
count is lost, then the practitioner returns to one.

Technique 2: keeping a question
Having a great question is fundamental to Zen practice. The questions most often used are “What
am I?” or “What is this?” (in Korean “Shi Shim Ma?”). Let go of all thinking, opinions and desires
and continually return to the questioning. This practice is usually co-ordinated with the breath.
The question may be asked during the inhalation, followed by a prolonged “Don’t Know” on the
exhalation; or the question may be asked on the exhalation. Both techniques promote a return to
the before-thinking mind.

Technique 3: mantra practice
Using a mantra to calm the mind and strengthen the center is another technique used by Zen
practitioners. The main difference between the mantras is the length of the mantra used and the
mantra’s direction. Generally the more incessant the thinking, the shorter the mantra should be.
The usual technique is to recite the mantra constantly, paying attention to it and allowing all
other thinking to drop away. This takes some practice since it is very easy to let one part of the
brain “chant” the mantra while the other part is thinking about dinner or going to the movies.
When this happens, gently bring the mind back to the mantra without any judgement. The most
common mantras recommended for beginners are the two listed below.

1) Clear mind, clear mind, clear mind, don’t know
This mantra is usually suggested to beginners in conjunction with a breathing exercise. Breathe
in to a count of 3, saying “clear mind” at each count and breathe out to a count of 7 saying
‘dooooonnnn’t knnnnooooooow’ just once for the whole 7 count. The count may vary with the
individual, but the exhalation must be more than twice as long as the inhalation.

2) Kwan Seum Bosal
This is the Korean name of the Bodhisattva of Compassion, Avalokitesvara. This mantra is commonly
suggested for people whose minds cannot be quiet one minute or who cannot concentrate
for very long. Because it is short it can be repeated over and over (usually with a set of beads for
counting). The usual recommendation is for 3000 to 10000 a day for someone who really wants
to clear their mind of a particular problem. It is also used on a daily basis by many people as part
of their sitting meditation technique.
More advanced students often use the entire Great Dharani as a mantra, reciting it sub-vocally
as fast as possible over and over again.

Technique 4: chanting
Although the individual chants—especially the Great Dharani—may be done alone as mantras,
chanting done in a group is also meditation practice. The key to chanting correctly is to chant
with 100 percent focus and energy: just loud enough to hear your own voice, and softly enough
to hear everyone else in the room. This allows everyone to follow the moktak master for the chant
as there is no one voice over-powering all the rest. Also people who have a hard time singing in
key can then blend in with everyone and the sound from the chant in group will truly be togetheraction–all
minds becoming one.
Kido chanting is an especially strong form of chanting meditation.

Technique 5: prostrations
Prostrations are a very powerful technique for seeing and working through the karma of a difficult
situation because both the mind and the body are involved. Something that might take days of
sitting to digest may be digested in a much shorter time with prostrations. A common practice,
especially popular in Korea, is to do 1000 bows a day (actually 1080). This can be done all at once
or as is usually the case, spread out through the day. For instance,
1 set for morning bows,
2 sets before breakfast,
2 sets at lunch time,
2 sets mid-afternoon,
1 set before evening practice,
2 sets after evening practice.
This is a demanding schedule. Practitioners often commit to to 300 or 500 bows a day.

Technique 6: clear mind meditation
This form of meditation involves just sitting and being aware of what is going on at just this
moment. This is moment-to-moment mind. It hears the birds in the trees, the cars going by, the
planes overhead, and the children playing outside. To the clear mind there is no such thing as
‘noisy’, it all just ‘is.’ This is not a technique for beginners, but is an out-growth of experience
with the previous meditation techniques.
I am curious how other traditions handle this.

regards,
Keith
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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Wayfarer
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Location: Sydney AU

Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by Wayfarer » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:54 am

It sounds like a very distressing state of affairs, Linda. I imagine it must be very trying circumstances. I lived in a bushfire-prone part of Australia (actually still do) but so far I’ve been lucky; got close in 2004 but nothing since. But it must be very difficult indeed with all of the discloation and displaced persons.

In respect of the question - my analogy would be, you can use a paintbrush, a roller, or a spray-painter, but in any case, the paint has to be applied and given time to dry. So long as, as Suzuki-Roshi used to say, we practice ‘without any gaining idea’, then nothing untoward can occur, and good things might even happen! :smile:
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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seeker242
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by seeker242 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:06 pm

Chapter 7 of the Diamond Sutra basically says the same thing. :smile:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

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KeithA
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by KeithA » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:32 pm

Lindama wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:31 am
Keith, I'm not sure why you felt the need to split this topic..... I'd say that Meido is right on! I have not seen Meido say this before, but it is consistent with what I see in him. And, I can breath out and relax....

His comments include everything you say about Kwan Um.... as far as no single practice.

Since my beginning, I do not understand, why we need to compare and contrast traditions.... it leads to a confusing state of affairs for some.... just as my neighborhood is currently in a heated discussion about the new encampment of homeless ppl displaced by the recent devastating fires in Santa Rosa and the ongoing homeless populations... it's a mix and hard to tell who is who anymore. Picture a vacant parking lot now full of RV's and neighbors projecting garbage and it's non-removal... and OMG the syringes that must be in those mysterious black garbage bags, if they even contain garbage... or maybe clothing taken out in a rush .... and OMG, how it is causing our property values to decrease... and, OMG, the person who often works with the homeless in other areas who offered to help them take away the garbage if it even needs to be taken away has been accused of enabling them ... just to name a few other traditions that we might not practice. Ofc, it's not about the garbage as Arlo Guthrie knew :smile: and there in lies the real practice...... Just ask Alice, tho she doesn't live at the restaurant... Alice's Restaurant. (ancient history for some of you)

I've been seeing, purity has it's price.

linda

<snip>
HI Linda,

Thanks for your comments, Linda. And much love to you and your neighbors while you deal emotional and physical losses inflicted by the fires.

I split the topic off because Meido suggested it might be off topic and also to drag it into the Zen space here at DW. It was in the more general "East Asian Buddhism" section before.

My question wasn't really to generate a compare and contrast conversation, as much to hear what other traditions use for practices. I guess I am a bit unusual in that I have never practiced outside of Kwan Um. I started practicing with them in the early 90's and just never felt a reason to do anything else. So, I am often curious about how other folks practice.

Keith
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

narhwal90
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by narhwal90 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:04 pm

I beg pardon for posting here, but on the basis of the kamakura single-practice question, the Nichiren practice most closely resembles #4 chanting, that is the characteristic repetition of nam-myoho-renge-kyo or namu-myoho-renge-kyo, depending on the school. Your points about having a leader, issues of volume and harmony are pertinent, sometimes a pace and volume have developed and another member arrives and dives in with a much greater volume, different cadence etc it can be disruptive. OTOH there is often a tendency towards slowing of cadence particularly in large groups, sometimes prompting the leader to reset the pace and drive the chanting forward till people catch up. In much larger gatherings sometimes drummers are used to set a beat that all can follow.

That is the basic chant, though schools also include recitation of selected chapters of the Lotus Sutra before and/or after chanting, which doesn't readily fit in the list. I have attended zazen sessions and a Tendai morning service where selected passages of the Heart Sutra were read. In Nichiren-space such recitation is not considered part of the chanting, perhaps a similar distinction applies in Zen.

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anjali
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by anjali » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:19 pm

One important practice I don't see listed is walking meditation (kinhin), which is usually combined with sitting mediation (zazen). Thich Nhat Hahn is a big proponent for this practice.

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KeithA
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by KeithA » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:48 pm

anjali wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:19 pm
One important practice which I don't see listed is walking meditation (kinhin), which is usually combined with sitting mediation (zazen). Thich Nhat Hahn is a big proponent for this practice.
We typically walk for 10 minutes between sitting periods. Korean style is to treat it as an extension of the sitting period. It is done at normal to fast pace.
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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anjali
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by anjali » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:09 am

KeithA wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:48 pm
anjali wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:19 pm
One important practice which I don't see listed is walking meditation (kinhin), which is usually combined with sitting mediation (zazen). Thich Nhat Hahn is a big proponent for this practice.
We typically walk for 10 minutes between sitting periods. Korean style is to treat it as an extension of the sitting period. It is done at normal to fast pace.
That's certainly the traditional framework that we are probably all most familiar with. It can also be a practice in it's own right, apart from the sitting period or the meditation hall. I tend to use this method when out taking walks. :)

Another practice is the use of koans such as found in The Gateless Gate or the Book of Equanimity. I personally haven't had any formal practice with koans in a student teacher setting. No doubt Meido could say much more on this method of practice.

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KeithA
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by KeithA » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:30 am

seeker242 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:06 pm
Chapter 7 of the Diamond Sutra basically says the same thing. :smile:
I love to cross reference different translations, to see how different the same idea can be expressed.

This one expresses your point perfectly:
Then Buddha asked Subhuti, “What do you think, Subhuti, has the Buddha arrived at the highest, most fulfilled, most awakened and enlightened mind? Does the Buddha teach any teaching?”

Subhuti replied, “As far as I have understood the lord Buddha’s teachings, there is no independently existing object of mind called the highest, most fulfilled, awakened or enlightened mind. Nor is there any independently existing teaching that the Buddha teaches. Why? Because the teachings that the Buddha has realized and spoken of cannot be conceived of as separate, independent things and therefore cannot be described. The truth in them is uncontainable and inexpressible. It neither is, nor is it not. What does this mean? What this means is that Buddhas and disciples are not enlightened by a set method of teachings, but by an internally intuitive process which is spontaneous and is part of their own inner nature.”
From here.

A couple of other versions:
7. No obtaining, no expounding

“Subhūti, what do you think? Has the Tathāgata obtained Anuttarā Samyaksaṃbodhi? Is there any dharma the Tathāgata has spoken?” Subhūti replied, “Thus do I explain the true meaning of the Buddha’s teachings: there is no fixed dharma of Anuttarā Samyaksaṃbodhi, nor is there a fixed dharma the Tathāgata can speak. Why? The Tathāgata’s exposition of the Dharma can never be grasped or spoken, being neither dharma nor non-dharma. What is it, then? All the noble ones are distinguished by the unconditioned Dharma.”
From here.
SEVEN: Once again, the Buddha asked the venerable Subhuti, “What do you think, Subhuti? Did the
Tathagata realize any such dharma as ‘unexcelled, perfect enlightenment’? And does the Tathagata
teach any such dharma?”
The venerable Subhuti thereupon answered, “Bhagavan, as I understand the meaning of what the
Buddha says, the Tathagata did not realize any such dharma as ‘unexcelled, perfect enlightenment.’
Nor does the Tathagata teach such a dharma. And why? Because this dharma realized and taught by
the Tathagata is incomprehensible and inexpressible and neither a dharma nor no dharma. And why?
Because sages arise from what is uncreated.”
Red Pine's version.
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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KeithA
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by KeithA » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:50 am

anjali wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:09 am
KeithA wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:48 pm
anjali wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:19 pm
One important practice which I don't see listed is walking meditation (kinhin), which is usually combined with sitting mediation (zazen). Thich Nhat Hahn is a big proponent for this practice.
We typically walk for 10 minutes between sitting periods. Korean style is to treat it as an extension of the sitting period. It is done at normal to fast pace.
That's certainly the traditional framework that we are probably all most familiar with. It can also be a practice in it's own right, apart from the sitting period or the meditation hall. I tend to use this method when out taking walks. :)

Another practice is the use of koans such as found in The Gateless Gate or the Book of Equanimity. I personally haven't had any formal practice with koans in a student teacher setting. No doubt Meido could say much more on this method of practice.
Being a Lin Chi (Rinzai) tradition, we definitely use koans (kong an's, Korean) in our practice. Our core practice is to pick up the question "what is this?" and use kong an's as a technique in the interview room, rather than as an object of concentration. Koreans (Chogye Order) call this "Shi Shim Ma". Holding the koan is called Kwan Wha style.

I did some reading of Bassui recently, and it seemed to me that his method of practice described very closely what I have been taught.
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

Sentient Light
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by Sentient Light » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:47 pm

Kwan Um sounds a lot like Liễu Quán! This makes sense, as Liễu Quán is a modernized (post-18th century) school of Lâm Tế (Linji).

From my perspective, and from what I understand of Chan history, practices like Pure Land chanting, recitation of mantras and dharanis, prostrations, walking meditation, sitting meditation, ritual offerings, visualizations, koans, hua tou, etc. have always been part of the Chan transmission in one form or another. Chan is a comprehensive practice, only falling light on the "theory" side of things compared to other traditions.

"Single-practice" traditions are virtually unheard of in Vietnamese culture... and I actually think the closest we come to it is in Thich Nhat Hanh's reformation school, but part of that is because virtually every monastic in VN is of the Liễu Quán lineage (those who are not are mostly central-Vietnamese practicing Trúc Lâm Thiền, our home-grown Tantric transmission, or in southern VN, the Theravadins). The result is that various Liễu Quán temples and teachers will all teach in different methods: one temple might teach exclusively niệm Phật; the temple the next village over might teach chánh niệm (vipassana); or one teacher in a temple will specialize in teaching ngồi thiền (sitting meditation/zazen) and another teaches mantras and visualization.

I feel like the trend of "single-practice" (in that context) is something fairly unique to Japan's history. Chan was renovated in Chinese history by the advent of the "one-practice samadhi", but that's sort of a different thing altogether.
:buddha1: Nam mô A di đà Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát :bow:

:buddha1: Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát :bow:

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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by Meido » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Nice to hear what other folks are doing, and to see variations in even familiar practices.

Rather than list practices that are transmitted in our line, I thought it might be useful to to describe how practice methods as a whole are classified according to our understanding:

Basically, practice methods can be used...

1. To remove obstructions to recognizing one's nature (kensho).
2. To recognize one's nature, i.e. "direct pointing."
3. To actualize the recognition as embodied realization, along the subsequent path of post-kensho practice.

Methods themselves are understood to be possibly applicable to any or all of these intentions, depending on the student's conditions, the ability and power of the teacher, etc.

As an example, susokukan (breath-counting) can serve to remove obstructions since it cultivates samadhi, causing the mind and energetic currents to gather at the tanden, etc. But it can also be a method sufficient for kensho, since by entering an all-encompassing samadhi using it, and arising from that state when the samadhi is shattered, one can recognize one's nature. Finally, it can be a method of clarifying and integrating that wisdom, that is, a practice in which with each breath/count one gives rise to a seamless upwelling of the recognition.

Likewise with wato/koan. These methods are not usually used unless someone has established sufficient meditative stability to "hold" the wato or koan uninterruptedly. But in some cases, someone who lacks that stability will still be given these methods, since they themselves can help to establish that stability.

The ways in which sanzen, encounter with the teacher, manifests can also be like this depending on the people.

Since one generally has no idea for what purposes someone else is using a method, it is thus an error to judge others according to ideas of particular practices being "basic" or "advanced".

I think it also important to point out that talk of methods is for people like us who haven't yet actualized the method-less practice that is the fruition of practice. It was described by Shido Bunan as the Ultimate Vehicle, in which "one does as one wills with nothing particular to observe; for this reason it is a great matter, and rare in this world." He wrote also about this,

Not doing zazen,
Is no other than zazen itself;
When you truly know this,
You are not separate
From the way of Buddha.

"Truly know," naturally, is the important part that hangs most people up!

So, just a bit there about one approach.

~ Meido
Even though you have attained insight into the True Nature (kensho), there is yet the barrier of differentiation, and there is the One Path of Advanced Practice. If you have not yet even seen into the True Nature, what a lot there is yet to do! - Torei

The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

Miroku
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by Miroku » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:43 pm

Thank you Meido for such an amazing overview. Almost makes me feel sorry there are no rinzai groups in Czechia. :twothumbsup:
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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Meido
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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by Meido » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:48 am

Miroku wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:43 pm
Almost makes me feel sorry there are no rinzai groups in Czechia.
Miroku, if you're feeling becomes stronger than "almost," send me a PM :twothumbsup:

This reminds me of something I've been thinking lately, will start a new thread.

~ Meido
Even though you have attained insight into the True Nature (kensho), there is yet the barrier of differentiation, and there is the One Path of Advanced Practice. If you have not yet even seen into the True Nature, what a lot there is yet to do! - Torei

The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: Zen Practice Forms

Post by DGA » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:53 pm

Meido wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:55 pm
I think it also important to point out that talk of methods is for people like us who haven't yet actualized the method-less practice that is the fruition of practice. It was described by Shido Bunan as the Ultimate Vehicle, in which "one does as one wills with nothing particular to observe; for this reason it is a great matter, and rare in this world." He wrote also about this,

Not doing zazen,
Is no other than zazen itself;
When you truly know this,
You are not separate
From the way of Buddha.

"Truly know," naturally, is the important part that hangs most people up!
Thank you for this, Sensei.

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