Looking ahead...(split from ZFI topic)

[Larryo]

It seems some of us are just experimenting to see what feels right. DW, Zen Space, the return of ZFI or maybe all three! If we have ludicrous amounts of time to spare

[Lindama]

user error!

well.... it won't take my username??

thanks elG.... seems we also need to use some wisdom about what is needed for the good of all. So, I'll go with this and take one step at a time.

[Lindama]

el G, suggestion.... before you spend too much time, it seems good to know what is happening. if it will be fixed, etc. Also, may serve to hop on DW.

I thought you did an excellent job setting up your last forum, sadly there was no interest. It was visually attractive and a sign of a lot of thought. I didn't know much about the topic.

linda

[boda]

good to see you el G

is your platform active?

I just created a Zen Space at http://zenspace-001-site1.itempurl.com

This is a phpBB forum free for all for the first 60 days.

You’re starting with a rather large handicap using a free temp account and no dedicated and SEO friendly domain url.

[DNS]

No need to reinvent the wheel (pun intended); the East Asian forum here has over 30,000 posts so far and includes all major forms of Zen. And we're all up to date with the SSL security certificates (see lock symbol in your browser).

Just start posting away; don't make me get out the keisaku.

I like Zen, and still go to Chan and Zen centers occasionally and sit with them.

[KeithA]

good to see you el G

is your platform active?

I just created a Zen Space at http://zenspace-001-site1.itempurl.com

This is a phpBB forum free for all for the first 60 days.

You’re starting with a rather large handicap using a free temp account and no dedicated and SEO friendly domain url.

The forum's stated purpose is, for now at least, a place to discuss what to do about ZFI being down. I don't think it is meant to be permanent.

[KeithA]

No need to reinvent the wheel (pun intended); the East Asian forum here has over 30,000 posts so far and includes all major forms of Zen. And we're all up to date with the SSL security certificates (see lock symbol in your browser).

Just start posting away; don't make me get out the keisaku.

I like Zen, and still go to Chan and Zen centers occasionally and sit with them.

Haha! Careful what you wish for...we are a motley lot!

[Meido]

No need to reinvent the wheel (pun intended); the East Asian forum here has over 30,000 posts so far and includes all major forms of Zen. And we're all up to date with the SSL security certificates (see lock symbol in your browser).

Just start posting away; don't make me get out the keisaku.

Don't hold back, wake 'em up!

A Zen dedicated forum is nice if it returns and is well-moderated. Even so, I would also encourage the Zen folks to jump in here. The place is well run to my mind, and I learn a lot here.

~ Meido

[boda]

I just created a Zen Space at http://zenspace-001-site1.itempurl.com

This is a phpBB forum free for all for the first 60 days.

You’re starting with a rather large handicap using a free temp account and no dedicated and SEO friendly domain url.

The forum's stated purpose is, for now at least, a place to discuss what to do about ZFI being down. I don't think it is meant to be permanent.

Developing a strategic plan for the big comeback, aye. The Best Laid Plans of ZFI... didn't work out so well the first time.

History tends to repeat itself when no lessons have been learned from the past.

[KeithA]

You’re starting with a rather large handicap using a free temp account and no dedicated and SEO friendly domain url.

The forum's stated purpose is, for now at least, a place to discuss what to do about ZFI being down. I don't think it is meant to be permanent.

Developing a strategic plan for the big comeback, aye. The Best Laid Plans of ZFI... didn't work out so well the first time.

History tends to repeat itself when no lessons have been learned from the past.

Too funny...i don't know about all that, I just read the sticky.

[boda]

Too funny...i don't know about all that, I just read the sticky.

It's true, a lot of planning went into ZFI when it started, and it failed nevertheless. A lot of effort went into moderating the site, I remember people used to joke about the list of rules, which was quite extensive at one point, all to no avail.

[anjali]

History tends to repeat itself when no lessons have been learned from the past.

Without bashing ZFI, what lessons do you think should be learned that we might apply here on DW for our Zen forums?

If there is enough dialogue on the subject I will split it off into a new topic. It's best if we keep this topic primarily on ZFI status.

[el gatito]

good to see you el G

is your platform active?

I just created a Zen Space at http://zenspace-001-site1.itempurl.com

This is a phpBB forum free for all for the first 60 days.

You’re starting with a rather large handicap using a free temp account and no dedicated and SEO friendly domain url.

After reading the Linda's (possibly half-serious) inquiry about my "platform" this board is what can be done in 5 - 10 minutes time, in response to her remark. Knowing the web hosting market, both paid and "free" (running commercial web projects since 1990-s), and also "trial", including numerous problematic hosts and plans, this above linked forum is technically sound, the host is reliable, the management tools are excellent, and the promised 60 days are the maximum one can get with such level of service for free. Further, it is ads-free (unlike many others). Would you want me to invest in a domain (like ZEN.SPACE), SEO, SSL cert, etc. for an experimental 60-day operation?

[boda]

History tends to repeat itself when no lessons have been learned from the past.

Without bashing ZFI, what lessons do you think should be learned that we might apply here on DW for our Zen forums?

In my experience people are driven away from Buddhist forums when influential people (in religious authority or administrative control) push their views or agendas too forcefully. It’s actually quite simple. I think some people just can’t help themselves.

You’re lucky to have DNS for an owner/andministrator and zen forum contributors like Meido, Astus, and others.

[Lindama]

Thank you boda and anjali, many things in the field... this has meaning for me. I've appreciated my experience with ZFI past and present. These folks are my community, going under the covers into chat space, I get to know and appreciate the road we all walk and the differences we live in. My teacher always said, there is nothing that is not zen. Nowadays, I can say that for my self. There is a centering energy that I feel here at DW which is familiar and welcome. And, as one of my compatriots said, we are a motley bunch. One way or t'another, living where the rubber meets the road, ngondro, adds depth to our lives..... it has many faces. Make no mistake, every snow flake fell just in the right place for ZFI. There are things that we don't know....

So, as far as what lessons have been learned that you might apply to DW, I'd say let it snow, let it snow. I heard you say as much. So, let's lean into life and enjoy each other. At the end of the day, we walk together above sutra, tantra and zazen.

linda

History tends to repeat itself when no lessons have been learned from the past.

Without bashing ZFI, what lessons do you think should be learned that we might apply here on DW for our Zen forums?

In my experience people are driven away from Buddhist forums when influential people (in religious authority or administrative control) push their views or agendas too forcefully. It’s actually quite simple. I think some people just can’t help themselves.

You’re lucky to have DNS for an owner/andministrator and zen forum contributors like Meido, Astus, and others.

[Larryo]

[HePo]

Interesting discussion....
...
Fortunately, I have an archive of saved writings tho in truth, I rarely refer to them. As far as I know, it was the motivation (to save the archive) to keep it going with declining participation.
...

Quite a bit of the ZFI forum history - Jan 2009 through Oct 2017 - can be found in the Web Archive

https://web.archive.org/web/20170801000 ... tional.org

- am not sure how much is actually available - did not spent much time exploring -

[el gatito]

...Unfortunately, it seems that information was sent in a PM to Gregory which he can't access now...

Means, he has never read the PM, which was sent several months ago, containing the website credentials necessary to manage the site? Has never read it, while being the only owner of the site? Taking into account that the ownership was rolled back to him at his own will?

...Gregory has yet to contact the hosting service, since he didn't know who to contact...

Didn't know whom to contact in the hosting company, with whom he himself hosted his website?

I am a bit lost here.

Why, being unauthorized party, I myself was able to find out everything on the very same day (24-Oct) and no one else, who had more rights and power to do so, could?

Why didn't anyone responsible and at power post a quick note on the ZFI home page on the 24th of Oct telling visitors that the site was under maintenance, or something similar, while figuring out what was going on? And, as of today, why the home page is still showing "Suspended" message and not a custom text?

I possibly misunderstand the entire picture of what is (and was) actually going on regarding these matters.

[Dan74]

I suspect that you and Gregory not only have vastly different amounts of relevant knowledge, but quite a different approach regarding what exactly constitutes due diligence in these matters. He's been very hands-off and I still don't know why exactly he wanted to have the ownership of ZFI back when he doesn't do much with it. But regardless, I think it is a good idea to set the ZFI aside for now (unless asked for help by Gregory) and focus on either participating here or the new place you've set up.

DW is definitely more alive but the bulk of activity is Vajrayana (with some Nichiren too) and very few of these folks here have any genuine interest in Zen. Given what it's been for some time, I think this perception (rather than any negative conduct from the Team) will put breaks on the new Zen folks joining. When I see new topics here, most of the time I have no connection with them. So I'd say Zen folks need a new place. It makes sense too, since it is a very distinct tradition.

As for an earlier post saying that Zen folks are not united, pissed off at each other and don't have anything to discuss, this hasn't been my experience at all. While my main practice was with Seon, I've sat long-term with Soto and attended some Chan activities and always found a great deal of common ground. I've also luckily not experienced any enmity between Zen groups. And I think there's a lot to discuss because there is plenty of misunderstanding around and some teachers give very sparse pointers. Lastly, a Forum could act as a hub not just to advertise events, but with a library of useful stuff for the Beginners especially. I tried to do that at ZFI, not sure if it's still in existence.

So I am all for a new Forum. I also hope Gregory will revive ZFI so that the discussions and links are not lost for ever.

_/|\_

[boda]

Then there was the issue that boda refers to when one or more people exert a great deal of authority on the Forum, like telling members they have no idea about Zen. One prominent member didn't like this 'throwing of one's weight around', the creation of a hierarchy of Teachers and Ask a Teacher Forum that would 'inhibit the free flow'. Personally I think a Forum can be big enough to contain the more disciplined rooms for current students with a teacher, the free-wheeling zennies and those in between. What is vital IMO is clear signs - "this place is for this and not that."

Well, if all that was workable it would have worked, right? People go to a discussion forum to discuss. It’s a very simple thing to pin the email addresses of any teachers who are willing to field questions.

the creation of a hierarchy of Teachers

Really? How did that work?