Please, Roshi. Could you start a new thread and please write all and everything about Rinzai lineage and practices you deem important or pertinent. Thank you in advance.We can talk about this if you like, but maybe better to start a new thread.
~ Meido
Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
yea just a bunch of dead people, zombie zone, lol nothing
no 1
lol
botom
practice? u? lool
0
practice untill u r alive lol dead 1!
send my recognition by email..lol
u better practice lighting a stove
at least well b warm
lol
botom
no 1
lol
botom
practice? u? lool
0
practice untill u r alive lol dead 1!
send my recognition by email..lol
u better practice lighting a stove
at least well b warm
lol
botom
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
He translated the first work, here's an English versionBruce wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:48 am
Exactly. I am trying to collect Zen Literature from pre-HUI NENG era to learn what Zen was like back in India. There were also many methods of ZEN was lost after the rise of HUI NENG's schools . Not much Text survived. One thing that would be really interesting is ZONG MI's writings and collection of the older pre HUI NENG ZEN schools; however, these writings was lost in wars. That is why I am trying to find literature outside Chinese language regarding ZEN in hoping something older would have survived.
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra09.html
T14n0466 ---> this is in Chinese only, Google translation does nothing
Point to note - Vietnam did not exist. Maybe it would be more accurate to say he went to Tonkin. But even then maybe not.
I am trying to contact a senior translator of Sanskrit and Pali, and professor of South Asian Buddhist literature. I'm wondering the same thing so maybe he has some leads for us.
__()__
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
posts like mine here are best in the bin
at least a few here r alive
thnx
at least a few here r alive
thnx
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Thank you, that is Awesome!SunWuKong wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:54 amHe translated the first work, here's an English versionBruce wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:48 am
Exactly. I am trying to collect Zen Literature from pre-HUI NENG era to learn what Zen was like back in India. There were also many methods of ZEN was lost after the rise of HUI NENG's schools . Not much Text survived. One thing that would be really interesting is ZONG MI's writings and collection of the older pre HUI NENG ZEN schools; however, these writings was lost in wars. That is why I am trying to find literature outside Chinese language regarding ZEN in hoping something older would have survived.
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra09.html
T14n0466 ---> this is in Chinese only, Google translation does nothing
Point to note - Vietnam did not exist. Maybe it would be more accurate to say he went to Tonkin. But even then maybe not.
I am trying to contact a senior translator of Sanskrit and Pali, and professor of South Asian Buddhist literature. I'm wondering the same thing so maybe he has some leads for us.
__()__
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Agreed. I like to know more about actual practice of Otokan lineage. By the way, isn't Soto Zen also survived till this day? not sure, just asking. I read Lin Ji's writing before. very straight forward, very sharp, perhaps too sharp. He was the one who said, 'cut down the conception of Mara, cut down the conception of Buddha.'Meido wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:43 pm"Otokan lineage" (after Xutang's heir Daio, his heir Daito, and his heir Kanzan) really just means Linji/Rinzai Zen in Japan, since it is the line that survived to the present day.
We can talk about this if you like, but maybe better to start a new thread.
~ Meido
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
LOL bruce, what planet have u fallen from?isn't Soto Zen also survived till this day?
LOL
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Yes, Soto Zen of course still exists. I meant that of the Linji lineages that made it to Japan, only the Otokan lineage coming from Xutang and through Daio, Daito, and Kanzan still survives. So all Rinzai lineages in Japan today are branches of the Otokan line.
There's another thread started about Rinzai practice, please take a look if you like.
~ Meido
-
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 7:45 am
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Meido wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:56 pmYes, Soto Zen of course still exists. I meant that of the Linji lineages that made it to Japan, only the Otokan lineage coming from Xutang and through Daio, Daito, and Kanzan still survives. So all Rinzai lineages in Japan today are branches of the Otokan line.
There's another thread started about Rinzai practice, please take a look if you like.
~ Meido
What about the Obaku school? Is it considered part of Rinzai or a separate sect? Wiki also says Hakuin's students purged some aspects of the school they disliked (From the short description; sutra study, nembustu, etc basically the Chinese Chan elements), so are Rinzai and Obaku basically the same now?
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
The website of the Joint Council for Rinzai and Obaku Zen has good info, and confirms that the Manpuku-ji (Obaku h.q.) abbots are of the Otokan line:ItsRaining wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:46 pm What about the Obaku school? Is it considered part of Rinzai or a separate sect? Wiki also says Hakuin's students purged some aspects of the school they disliked (From the short description; sutra study, nembustu, etc basically the Chinese Chan elements), so are Rinzai and Obaku basically the same now?
- http://zen.rinnou.net/whats_zen/history.html#The Obaku SchoolManpuku-ji and the other monasteries established in Yinyuan’s lineage remained strongly Chinese in character for many generations. The first thirteen abbots of Manpuku-ji were all Chinese; the fourteenth abbot, Ryuto Gento 龍統元棟 (1663–1746), was the first Japanese abbot, but he was followed by a number of Chinese chief priests. The thirty-third abbot, Ryochu Nyoryu 良忠如隆 (1793–1868) was a Dharma successor of the important Hakuin-line master Takuju Kosen; since that time the teachings of the school have become increasingly similar to those of Japanese Rinzai Zen (all masters are now of the Hakuin lineage), although many of the monastic customs of the Obaku school remain distinctly those of Ming-dynasty Chinese Zen. Practices like the nenbutsu and esoteric rituals have been retained, ceremonies such as sutra-chanting are performed in the Chinese manner, and mealtime ettiquette follows Chinese customs
Textual study is not purged anywhere that I know of. As for nembutsu: when it arrived in Japan, the Obaku-shu Ming-era Chan practice style was indeed criticized by some Japanese for Chan/Pure Land syncretism (Pure Land practice was not emphasized in the late Song-era Chan lineages already established there). I have no idea what Manpuku-ji preserves of the original practice style taught by Master Ingen.
Matylda or someone else might be able to give more info here.
~ Meido
-
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 7:45 am
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Thanks!Meido wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:32 amThe website of the Joint Council for Rinzai and Obaku Zen has good info, and confirms that the Manpuku-ji (Obaku h.q.) abbots are of the Otokan line:ItsRaining wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:46 pm What about the Obaku school? Is it considered part of Rinzai or a separate sect? Wiki also says Hakuin's students purged some aspects of the school they disliked (From the short description; sutra study, nembustu, etc basically the Chinese Chan elements), so are Rinzai and Obaku basically the same now?
- http://zen.rinnou.net/whats_zen/history.html#The Obaku SchoolManpuku-ji and the other monasteries established in Yinyuan’s lineage remained strongly Chinese in character for many generations. The first thirteen abbots of Manpuku-ji were all Chinese; the fourteenth abbot, Ryuto Gento 龍統元棟 (1663–1746), was the first Japanese abbot, but he was followed by a number of Chinese chief priests. The thirty-third abbot, Ryochu Nyoryu 良忠如隆 (1793–1868) was a Dharma successor of the important Hakuin-line master Takuju Kosen; since that time the teachings of the school have become increasingly similar to those of Japanese Rinzai Zen (all masters are now of the Hakuin lineage), although many of the monastic customs of the Obaku school remain distinctly those of Ming-dynasty Chinese Zen. Practices like the nenbutsu and esoteric rituals have been retained, ceremonies such as sutra-chanting are performed in the Chinese manner, and mealtime ettiquette follows Chinese customs
Textual study is not purged anywhere that I know of. As for nembutsu: when it arrived in Japan, the Obaku-shu Ming-era Chan practice style was indeed criticized by some Japanese for Chan/Pure Land syncretism (Pure Land practice was not emphasized in the late Song-era Chan lineages already established there). I have no idea what Manpuku-ji preserves of the original practice style taught by Master Ingen.
Matylda or someone else might be able to give more info here.
~ Meido
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Actually, when I talked in Mampukuji to one of the head monks about their koan practice he told me that they inherited Takuju lineage of Otokan. However he added, they still keep some koans and practice them of Chinese origin in Ming era. We did not talk about details, just it was what he said.Meido wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:32 amThe website of the Joint Council for Rinzai and Obaku Zen has good info, and confirms that the Manpuku-ji (Obaku h.q.) abbots are of the Otokan line:ItsRaining wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:46 pm What about the Obaku school? Is it considered part of Rinzai or a separate sect? Wiki also says Hakuin's students purged some aspects of the school they disliked (From the short description; sutra study, nembustu, etc basically the Chinese Chan elements), so are Rinzai and Obaku basically the same now?
- http://zen.rinnou.net/whats_zen/history.html#The Obaku SchoolManpuku-ji and the other monasteries established in Yinyuan’s lineage remained strongly Chinese in character for many generations. The first thirteen abbots of Manpuku-ji were all Chinese; the fourteenth abbot, Ryuto Gento 龍統元棟 (1663–1746), was the first Japanese abbot, but he was followed by a number of Chinese chief priests. The thirty-third abbot, Ryochu Nyoryu 良忠如隆 (1793–1868) was a Dharma successor of the important Hakuin-line master Takuju Kosen; since that time the teachings of the school have become increasingly similar to those of Japanese Rinzai Zen (all masters are now of the Hakuin lineage), although many of the monastic customs of the Obaku school remain distinctly those of Ming-dynasty Chinese Zen. Practices like the nenbutsu and esoteric rituals have been retained, ceremonies such as sutra-chanting are performed in the Chinese manner, and mealtime ettiquette follows Chinese customs
Textual study is not purged anywhere that I know of. As for nembutsu: when it arrived in Japan, the Obaku-shu Ming-era Chan practice style was indeed criticized by some Japanese for Chan/Pure Land syncretism (Pure Land practice was not emphasized in the late Song-era Chan lineages already established there). I have no idea what Manpuku-ji preserves of the original practice style taught by Master Ingen.
Matylda or someone else might be able to give more info here.
~ Meido