Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Does anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice? Is there anything you can read on this great master in English?
Regards
Bruce
Regards
Bruce
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- Posts: 1333
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Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
I know Siddharta, another Indian name, he's one of the Best Zen teachers around. Quite difficult initially to get hold of. Harder to meet. Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Indeed. If one still believe there is a self to receive teaching and a Buddha to give teaching, it would surely hard to meet the real Siddharta ( Buddha nature).White Lotus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:57 pm I know Siddharta, another Indian name, he's one of the Best Zen teachers around. Quite difficult initially to get hold of. Harder to meet. Tom.
However, I am trying to learn more about this Vinitaruci to gain better perspective on Zen Buddhism methodology . Vinitaruci is not indian, he was from Oodiyana where Padmasambava from.
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/translato ... kumarajivaVinītaruci
Vinītaruci (毘尼多流支, ?–594) means subdued pleasure (滅喜). He was born in the sixth century, in southern India. In 574, the sixth year of the Taijian (太建) years of the Chen Dynasty (557–89, the last of the four Southern Dynasties), he went to Chang-an (長安), China, in search of the Dharma. He met Sengcan (僧璨, dates unknown), the third patriarch of the Chan School, in Ye County (鄴縣), Hunan Province, who imparted to him the Mind Seal and commanded him to go to southern China to deliver the multitudes.
He then went down south to Guangdong Province and became the abbot of the Zhizhie Temple (制止寺) in the city of Guangzhou (廣州). There he translated, from Sanskrit into Chinese, the Mahāyāna Vaipulya Sūtra of Total Retention (T09n0275) and the Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of the Elephant Head Ashram (T14n0466).
In 580, the twelfth year of the Taijian years, Vinītaruci went to northern Vietnam and became the abbot of the Fayun Temple (法雲寺). He started his Vinītaruci Chan School and propagated the Dharma in Vietnam for over ten years until his death in 594, during the Sui Dynasty (581–619). His teachings included that true suchness and Buddha nature are never born and never die and that all sentient beings have the same nature of true suchness. The Vinītaruci Chan School prospered in Vietnam for over six hundred years. His disciple Faxian (法賢, ?–626) was the first patriarch, who successively passed the lineage down to Yishan (依山, ?–1216). Then this Chan School declined into obscurity.
http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.co ... 4%ABtaruci
The Birth of Vietnam, page 155-158
https://books.google.de/books?id=rCl_02 ... ci&f=false
The History of Buddhism in Vietnam, page 55-62
https://books.google.de/books?id=tUN8tC ... ci&f=false
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Take any stories from Vietnamese Zen with a heaping pile of salt. The early Thien tradition has a particularly bad track record as far as blatant fraud is concerned
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan (tr. chintokkong)
若覓真不動。動上有不動。
"Search for what it really is to be unmoving in what does not move amid movement."
-Huineng (tr. Mark Crosbie)
ཚེ་འདི་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ཆོས་པ་མིན། །
འཁོར་བ་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ངེས་འབྱུང་མིན། །
བདག་དོན་ལ་ཞེན་ན་བྱང་སེམས་མིན། །
འཛིན་པ་བྱུང་ན་ལྟ་བ་མིན། །
-Yaoshan Weiyan (tr. chintokkong)
若覓真不動。動上有不動。
"Search for what it really is to be unmoving in what does not move amid movement."
-Huineng (tr. Mark Crosbie)
ཚེ་འདི་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ཆོས་པ་མིན། །
འཁོར་བ་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ངེས་འབྱུང་མིན། །
བདག་དོན་ལ་ཞེན་ན་བྱང་སེམས་མིན། །
འཛིན་པ་བྱུང་ན་ལྟ་བ་མིན། །
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Do you know any tradition with a good record?
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
NO, i do notDo you know any tradition with a good record?
its like a magnet
u have + and -
same magnet, two poles
as buddhists we tend an turn to +
its good, tho, to know,
i wonder if in this question
a middle ground is even possible
maybe its dynamic?
i hope my sisters tradition has a good record..LOLOL
but, very good question.
thnx astus
b
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Good point; certainly not overall, but some areas are more clearly faked than others. I should thus definitely rephrase my statement to "certain texts in the early Thien tradition have a particularly bad track record...". e.g. some of the biographies coming from the sources preserved in the Thien Uyen Tap Anh are copied basically wholesale from the Jingde chuandeng lu, which is much more clearly fabricated than e.g. the encounter dialogues of Tang dynasty teachers that appear for the first time in the Jingde chuandeng lu. But you're right; early Seon has similar problems, as does Soto, as does early Chan...
I haven't yet seen any problematization of the Otokan lineage's transmission, I gotta say. Have you found any? The only thing is that I don't know if there are any Chinese sources that corroborate his receiving transmission from Xutang.
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan (tr. chintokkong)
若覓真不動。動上有不動。
"Search for what it really is to be unmoving in what does not move amid movement."
-Huineng (tr. Mark Crosbie)
ཚེ་འདི་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ཆོས་པ་མིན། །
འཁོར་བ་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ངེས་འབྱུང་མིན། །
བདག་དོན་ལ་ཞེན་ན་བྱང་སེམས་མིན། །
འཛིན་པ་བྱུང་ན་ལྟ་བ་མིན། །
-Yaoshan Weiyan (tr. chintokkong)
若覓真不動。動上有不動。
"Search for what it really is to be unmoving in what does not move amid movement."
-Huineng (tr. Mark Crosbie)
ཚེ་འདི་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ཆོས་པ་མིན། །
འཁོར་བ་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ངེས་འབྱུང་མིན། །
བདག་དོན་ལ་ཞེན་ན་བྱང་སེམས་མིན། །
འཛིན་པ་བྱུང་ན་ལྟ་བ་མིན། །
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
No idea, digging into wikipedia, you can find his teachers name, his teacher's teacher (Bodhidharma), his followers, their activities. Various footnotes on texts in English, but not much on this guy himself. It is interesting question, clearly Dhyana/Chan/Zen/Thien has a very old track record going back into India.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Exactly. I am trying to collect Zen Literature from pre-HUI NENG era to learn what Zen was like back in India. There were also many methods of ZEN was lost after the rise of HUI NENG's schools . Not much Text survived. One thing that would be really interesting is ZONG MI's writings and collection of the older pre HUI NENG ZEN schools; however, these writings was lost in wars. That is why I am trying to find literature outside Chinese language regarding ZEN in hoping something older would have survived.SunWuKong wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:15 amNo idea, digging into wikipedia, you can find his teachers name, his teacher's teacher (Bodhidharma), his followers, their activities. Various footnotes on texts in English, but not much on this guy himself. It is interesting question, clearly Dhyana/Chan/Zen/Thien has a very old track record going back into India.
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Not sure about Chinese sources, but I had thought the transmission verse actually given to Daio Kokushi by Xutang (famously prophesying that Xutang's descendants would increase beyond the Eastern Sea) still exists, I assume at Daitoku-ji?
~ Meido
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Different lineage. I think Xutang is under Rinzai school , is it? Vinitaruci was a student of Sengcan. His teaching is an older Zen traditional( around 600 years). But I am generally interested in ZEN outside China.
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Besides reading a bunch of ZEN books, I don't know much about the actual ZEN practice. Intellectual knowledge has nothing to do with Buddhahood. Out of curiosity, If you don't mind me asking what would you normally practice in Otokan Lineage? Hua Tou? śamatha-vipaśyanā?
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Vinītaruci (毘尼多流支, ?–594) means subdued pleasure (滅喜). He was born in the sixth century, in southern India.
In 574, the sixth year of the Taijian (太建) years of the Chen Dynasty (557–89, the last of the four Southern Dynasties), he went to Chang-an (長安), China, in search of the Dharma.
He met Sengcan (僧璨, dates unknown), the third Patriarch of the Chan School, in Ye County (鄴縣), Hunan Province, who imparted to him the Mind Seal and commanded him to go to southern China to deliver the multitudes.
He then went down south to Guangdong Province and became the abbot of the Zhizhie Temple (制止寺) in the city of Guangzhou (廣州).
There he translated, from Sanskrit into Chinese, the Mahāyāna Vaipulya Sūtra of Total Retention (T09n0275) and The Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of the Elephant Head Ashram (T14n0466).
In 580, the twelfth year of the Taijian years, Vinītaruci went to northern Vietnam and became the abbot of the Fayun Temple (法雲寺).
He started his Vinītaruci Chan School and propagated the Dharma in Vietnam for over ten years until his Death in 594, during the Sui Dynasty (581–619).
His teachings included that true suchness and Buddha nature are never born and never die and that all Sentient beings have the same nature of true suchness.
The Vinītaruci Chan School prospered in Vietnam for over six hundred years.
His Disciple Faxian (法賢, ?–626) was the first Patriarch, who successively passed the lineage down to Yishan (依山, ?–1216). Then this Chan School declined into obscurity.
Source
http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.co ... 4%ABtaruci
Vinītaruci
Vinītaruci (毘尼多流支, ?–594) means subdued pleasure (滅喜). He was born in the sixth century, in southern India. In 574, the sixth year of the Taijian (太建) years of the Chen Dynasty (557–89, the last of the four Southern Dynasties), he went to Chang-an (長安), China, in search of the Dharma. He met Sengcan (僧璨, dates unknown), the third patriarch of the Chan School, in Ye County (鄴縣), Hunan Province, who imparted to him the Mind Seal and commanded him to go to southern China to deliver the multitudes.
He then went down south to Guangdong Province and became the abbot of the Zhizhie Temple (制止寺) in the city of Guangzhou (廣州). There he translated, from Sanskrit into Chinese, the Mahāyāna Vaipulya Sūtra of Total Retention (T09n0275) and the Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of the Elephant Head Ashram (T14n0466).
In 580, the twelfth year of the Taijian years, Vinītaruci went to northern Vietnam and became the abbot of the Fayun Temple (法雲寺). He started his Vinītaruci Chan School and propagated the Dharma in Vietnam for over ten years until his death in 594, during the Sui Dynasty (581–619). His teachings included that true suchness and Buddha nature are never born and never die and that all sentient beings have the same nature of true suchness. The Vinītaruci Chan School prospered in Vietnam for over six hundred years. His disciple Faxian (法賢, ?–626) was the first patriarch, who successively passed the lineage down to Yishan (依山, ?–1216). Then this Chan School declined into obscurity.
www.sutrasmantras.info
"His teachings included that true suchness and Buddha nature are never born and never die and that all sentient beings have the same nature of true suchness."
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Thank you. Really appreciate it.SunWuKong wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:56 amVinītaruci (毘尼多流支, ?–594) means subdued pleasure (滅喜). He was born in the sixth century, in southern India.
In 574, the sixth year of the Taijian (太建) years of the Chen Dynasty (557–89, the last of the four Southern Dynasties), he went to Chang-an (長安), China, in search of the Dharma.
He met Sengcan (僧璨, dates unknown), the third Patriarch of the Chan School, in Ye County (鄴縣), Hunan Province, who imparted to him the Mind Seal and commanded him to go to southern China to deliver the multitudes.
He then went down south to Guangdong Province and became the abbot of the Zhizhie Temple (制止寺) in the city of Guangzhou (廣州).
There he translated, from Sanskrit into Chinese, the Mahāyāna Vaipulya Sūtra of Total Retention (T09n0275) and The Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of the Elephant Head Ashram (T14n0466).
In 580, the twelfth year of the Taijian years, Vinītaruci went to northern Vietnam and became the abbot of the Fayun Temple (法雲寺).
He started his Vinītaruci Chan School and propagated the Dharma in Vietnam for over ten years until his Death in 594, during the Sui Dynasty (581–619).
His teachings included that true suchness and Buddha nature are never born and never die and that all Sentient beings have the same nature of true suchness.
The Vinītaruci Chan School prospered in Vietnam for over six hundred years.
His Disciple Faxian (法賢, ?–626) was the first Patriarch, who successively passed the lineage down to Yishan (依山, ?–1216). Then this Chan School declined into obscurity.
Source
http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.co ... 4%ABtaruci
Vinītaruci
Vinītaruci (毘尼多流支, ?–594) means subdued pleasure (滅喜). He was born in the sixth century, in southern India. In 574, the sixth year of the Taijian (太建) years of the Chen Dynasty (557–89, the last of the four Southern Dynasties), he went to Chang-an (長安), China, in search of the Dharma. He met Sengcan (僧璨, dates unknown), the third patriarch of the Chan School, in Ye County (鄴縣), Hunan Province, who imparted to him the Mind Seal and commanded him to go to southern China to deliver the multitudes.
He then went down south to Guangdong Province and became the abbot of the Zhizhie Temple (制止寺) in the city of Guangzhou (廣州). There he translated, from Sanskrit into Chinese, the Mahāyāna Vaipulya Sūtra of Total Retention (T09n0275) and the Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of the Elephant Head Ashram (T14n0466).
In 580, the twelfth year of the Taijian years, Vinītaruci went to northern Vietnam and became the abbot of the Fayun Temple (法雲寺). He started his Vinītaruci Chan School and propagated the Dharma in Vietnam for over ten years until his death in 594, during the Sui Dynasty (581–619). His teachings included that true suchness and Buddha nature are never born and never die and that all sentient beings have the same nature of true suchness. The Vinītaruci Chan School prospered in Vietnam for over six hundred years. His disciple Faxian (法賢, ?–626) was the first patriarch, who successively passed the lineage down to Yishan (依山, ?–1216). Then this Chan School declined into obscurity.
www.sutrasmantras.info
"His teachings included that true suchness and Buddha nature are never born and never die and that all sentient beings have the same nature of true suchness."
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
bruce, i can copy the whole thread and at the end say thnx. what? ill copy paste the whole forum..and at the end say thank u...LOL
i do want to ask u, tho, bout ur avatar?
did u paint it, or who did it, i kinda like it..
i do want to ask u, tho, bout ur avatar?
did u paint it, or who did it, i kinda like it..
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
Haha,very funny. just trying to be polite.
The picture is painted by my Vajrayanna teacher.
http://www.kankanwoo.com/?page_id=386
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
exceptional. outstanding, new take..
ill look more, thats full..full
ill b here later thnx bruce
ill look more, thats full..full
ill b here later thnx bruce
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Anyone knows Vinītaruci or his zen practice?
"Otokan lineage" (after Xutang's heir Daio, his heir Daito, and his heir Kanzan) really just means Linji/Rinzai Zen in Japan, since it is the line that survived to the present day.
We can talk about this if you like, but maybe better to start a new thread.
~ Meido