New Zen Forum invitation

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Grigoris
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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:47 pm

Well, if my mate Jundo is there I might drop past to get into a friendly punch up with him. It's been a while since we last went to-to-toe! :tongue:

If I remember correctly, it ended up with him threatening legal action against me.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

boda
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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by boda » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:48 pm

KeithA wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:04 pm
boda wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:52 pm
If I’m right, it’ll either end up being a TreeLeaf clone were members are expected to bow in deference to the every utterance from the Master in melodic sonance, or it’ll suffer the same fate as ZFI. If I’m wrong then who knows what’s possible.
Mmmm...cynicism. Like a nice warm blanket that comforts and feeds the ego.

:thinking:
Stating that I could be wrong and in the case that I am anything is possible is not an expression of cynicism, my friend.

But you have to admit that online Zen forums have a rather ragged history, so, a few words of warning seem warranted.

Anymore I tend to feed my ego in a more deliberate fashion, when I feel it wanting, like I do now. :pig:

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by boda » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:54 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:47 pm
Well, if my mate Jundo is there I might drop past to get into a friendly punch up with him. It's been a while since we last went to-to-toe! :tongue:

If I remember correctly, it ended up with him threatening legal action against me.
Having cancer, he could probably use more serotonin rather than more dopamine.

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by Fruitzilla » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:07 pm

I tried to register with 3 different browsers, but didn't make it past the captcha. :|

This is what the board said:

[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/google/recaptcha/src/ReCaptcha/RequestMethod/Post.php on line 68: file_get_contents(): https:// wrapper is disabled in the server configuration by allow_url_fopen=0
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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by Fruitzilla » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:08 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:47 pm
Well, if my mate Jundo is there I might drop past to get into a friendly punch up with him. It's been a while since we last went to-to-toe! :tongue:

If I remember correctly, it ended up with him threatening legal action against me.
Shirley you're joking...

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Grigoris
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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:13 pm

boda wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:54 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:47 pm
Well, if my mate Jundo is there I might drop past to get into a friendly punch up with him. It's been a while since we last went to-to-toe! :tongue:

If I remember correctly, it ended up with him threatening legal action against me.
Having cancer, he could probably use more serotonin rather than more dopamine.
TAYATHA OM BEKADZE BEKADZE MAHABEKADZE RAJA SAMUDGATE SOHA

Image
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

DGA
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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by DGA » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:28 pm

boda wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:54 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:47 pm
Well, if my mate Jundo is there I might drop past to get into a friendly punch up with him. It's been a while since we last went to-to-toe! :tongue:

If I remember correctly, it ended up with him threatening legal action against me.
Having cancer, he could probably use more serotonin rather than more dopamine.
Hold on, he's seriously ill? Any word on his prognosis?

We should practice for him.

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:41 pm

DGA wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:28 pm

Hold on, he's seriously ill? Any word on his prognosis?

We should practice for him.
https://zen1.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68

Here's some info.
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https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:46 pm

boda wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:48 pm
But you have to admit that online Zen forums have a rather ragged history, so, a few words of warning seem warranted.
What warning, one either participates on the forum or not, no need for your interpretations upon perception which says more about you then the actual forum.
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KeithA
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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by KeithA » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:03 pm

boda wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:48 pm
KeithA wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:04 pm
boda wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:52 pm
If I’m right, it’ll either end up being a TreeLeaf clone were members are expected to bow in deference to the every utterance from the Master in melodic sonance, or it’ll suffer the same fate as ZFI. If I’m wrong then who knows what’s possible.
Mmmm...cynicism. Like a nice warm blanket that comforts and feeds the ego.

:thinking:
Stating that I could be wrong and in the case that I am anything is possible is not an expression of cynicism, my friend.

But you have to admit that online Zen forums have a rather ragged history, so, a few words of warning seem warranted.

Anymore I tend to feed my ego in a more deliberate fashion, when I feel it wanting, like I do now. :pig:
Fair enough. :cheers:

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by boda » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:18 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:46 pm
boda wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:48 pm
But you have to admit that online Zen forums have a rather ragged history, so, a few words of warning seem warranted.
What warning, one either participates on the forum or not, no need for your interpretations upon perception which says more about you then the actual forum.
The warning that zenone could follow a familiar and undesirable trajectory, of course. And of course the warning expresses something about my intents and values, which are appenently shared to some degree by at least one other. Keith seems to find ZFI and/or TreeLeaf a pessimistic outcome.

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:46 pm

boda wrote: The warning that zenone could follow a familiar and undesirable trajectory, of course. And of course the warning expresses something about my intents and values, which are appenently shared to some degree by at least one other. Keith seems to find ZFI and/or TreeLeaf a pessimistic outcome.
Ok but things never turn out the way one expects them to be, so since we have no control over what happens but do have towards our attitude to whatever happens (in life) it's best to keep a non-dwelling mind, and make the best out of every situation (or new forum) not being conditioned by the past and future. memory is a good servant but a bad master. ;)
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Meido
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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by Meido » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:54 pm

Fruitzilla wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:07 pm
I tried to register with 3 different browsers, but didn't make it past the captcha.
There have been some bugs, but slowly things are getting ironed out. If you care to, please try again and let me know if it's still a problem.
boda wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:09 am
At a glance, I notice the inevitable 'rebirth' topic locked after only 10 pages, and you saying that it should have been closed even sooner than that, indeed after Medo & Jundo had their say. Is it a discussion forum or a platform for Medo and Jundo to preach their views? If it's the latter, you apparently haven't learned anything from the history of E-Shanga, Zen Forum International, etc.
We are determined that the place not be used as a stage for any one person. The TOS are being enforced (and these include a prohibition against casting aspersions on the Buddhist teachings). Reasoned discussion and debate of same are welcome, of course.

Incidentally, my involvement in the rebirth thread was mostly as a mod. I have my own views, of course, but am not terribly interested in participating in such debates. Instances where I felt that the TOS were not being sufficiently observed were moderated. Like all such threads, this one petered out after different views were repeated ad nauseam.

If it's an issue to anyone, my active mod role there will likely end in a few months due to other commitments.
boda wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:48 pm
But you have to admit that online Zen forums have a rather ragged history, so, a few words of warning seem warranted.
Point taken. Forums of any kind can have a ragged history, and they live or die dependent on the quality of participation and moderation. To my mind, ZFI arrived at a place in which very active moderation was urgently needed. But it did not happen and the place fell into a hole. We're attempting to steer the new place in a better direction.

The biggest challenge to online dharma forums of any kind, honestly, may be that many or most participants don't study/practice Buddhadharma (or, believe they can do so on their own and that their personal interpretations are as valid as anyone's because, well,



Until we gain a critical mass of core members it may take some work to keep things focused.

But all welcome. We hope to create a culture that will attract back some of the more knowledgeable and engaging participants from ZFI, and will thus be useful to inexperienced but sincerely interested folks.

~ Meido
Last edited by Meido on Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is relatively easy to accomplish the important matter of insight into one’s true nature, but uncommonly difficult to function freely and clearly [according to this understanding], in motion and in rest, in good and in adverse circumstances. Please make strenuous and vigorous efforts towards this end, otherwise all the teachings of Buddhas and patriarchs become mere empty words. - Torei

The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice

Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:22 pm

Meido wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:54 pm

But all welcome.
You don't really mean that do you? :tongue:

What happens on any forum and in any relationship is that folks have patterns of projecting their desires and fears on a project (or relationship) this includes non-practisioners as well as the most seasoned experienced practisioners or teachers. So whatever we try to do might be for the best intention but let us just stay detached and trust in universal functioning, it's all good.
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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by Meido » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:32 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:22 pm
You don't really mean that do you?
Sure, if they observe TOS.
fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:22 pm
So whatever we try to do might be for the best intention but let us just stay detached and trust in universal functioning, it's all good.
Nah, that kind of detachment is useless.

But when you take over my mod job you can do what you like :tongue:

~ Meido
It is relatively easy to accomplish the important matter of insight into one’s true nature, but uncommonly difficult to function freely and clearly [according to this understanding], in motion and in rest, in good and in adverse circumstances. Please make strenuous and vigorous efforts towards this end, otherwise all the teachings of Buddhas and patriarchs become mere empty words. - Torei

The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice

Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:36 pm

Meido wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:32 pm

Nah, that kind of detachment is useless.
haha I see what you did there
But when you take over my mod job you can do what you like :tongue:

~ Meido
No, no one could do Meido's mod job better then Meido. :P
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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by Meido » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:38 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:36 pm
No, no one could do Meido's mod job better then Meido.
I see what you did there.
It is relatively easy to accomplish the important matter of insight into one’s true nature, but uncommonly difficult to function freely and clearly [according to this understanding], in motion and in rest, in good and in adverse circumstances. Please make strenuous and vigorous efforts towards this end, otherwise all the teachings of Buddhas and patriarchs become mere empty words. - Torei

The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice

Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by DGA » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:33 am

fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:41 pm
DGA wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:28 pm

Hold on, he's seriously ill? Any word on his prognosis?

We should practice for him.
https://zen1.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68

Here's some info.
Thank you.

Esophogeal cancer is a hell realm. I wish Mr Cohen a speedy, comfortable, and complete recovery.

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:50 am

DGA wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:33 am
fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:41 pm
DGA wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:28 pm

Hold on, he's seriously ill? Any word on his prognosis?

We should practice for him.
https://zen1.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68

Here's some info.
Thank you.

Esophogeal cancer is a hell realm. I wish Mr Cohen a speedy, comfortable, and complete recovery.
After reading the end of the thread, it seems that Rev. Cohen has made a near-complete recovery.

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Re: New Zen Forum invitation

Post by boda » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:39 am

Meido wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:54 pm
Forums of any kind can have a ragged history, and they live or die dependent on the quality of participation and moderation.
You neglect to mention the role of administrative control or highly influential (authority figures) members.
To my mind, ZFI arrived at a place in which very active moderation was urgently needed. But it did not happen and the place fell into a hole. We're attempting to steer the new place in a better direction.

The biggest challenge to online dharma forums of any kind, honestly, may be that many or most participants don't study/practice Buddhadharma (or, believe they can do so on their own and that their personal interpretations are as valid as anyone's because, well,...
If that were an honest claim you would be able to provide evidence or at least a halfway reasonable argument to support it. No worries though, we can look at the available evidence and speculate, in all honesty, about what the biggest challenge facing Buddhist forums may be.

In order to determine a challenge, you first need to determine what the goal of a challenge is. In my experience, Buddhist forum administrators tend to have a blurry sense of what their goals are in running a forum. That's understandable given the nature (religious) of the subject matter. I suppose one way to circumvent this ambiguity is to use as evidence a Buddhist forum that is generally considered successful without specifying exactly why it is successful. If I'm not mistaken, you have a favorable view of Dharma Wheel, yes? so perhaps we can agree that this forum is a successful Buddhist forum.

We can both agree that ZFI "fell into a hole," as you put it. We can use it as an example of a failure to meet the challenge that you mention.

So why does DW meet the challenge and ZFI fail? Both have/had participants that either don't study/practice Buddhadharma or don't/didn't practice under the guidance of a teacher.

Assuming that this type of member is the biggest challenge, it could be that either DW has significantly less of this type of member than ZFI ever had or that DW is better at managing this type of member. By the way, anyone familiar with the full history of ZFI should attest to the fact that it was rather heavily moderated prior to its 'falling into a hole'.

Going back to goals, another possibility is that ZFI and DW simply have a different set of goals and therefore different challenges to meet, so the comparison is invalid.

Apparently, the only way to find resolution in the matter is for you to define your definition of a successful Buddhist forum, or rather, to explicitly define exactly what it is intended to accomplish.

In the absence of that clear purpose, we can dig deeper into your claim, specifically into the implication that a member who does study/practice Buddhadharma, and perhaps even does so under the wise tutelage of a Master, understands or realizes Buddhadharma and therefore whatever they post is valid. This implication is so absurd that I doubt it deserves further attention. If I've misapprehended the implication then maybe you can show how I've done so.
We hope to create a culture that will attract back some of the more knowledgeable and engaging participants from ZFI, and will thus be useful to inexperienced but sincerely interested folks.
Nonin, Jundo, Gregory, Carole, and others, were all knowledgeable and engaging, very much so, yet, to use your phrasing, they drove ZFI into a hole. Well, no one can do everything. You can only do what you're trained to do, right? :smile:

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