Why didn't you respond to my refutation?White Lotus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:02 pm This is a Zen site and if you wish to ban the teaching of Patriarch Seng Tsan then so be it.
All is One
Re: All is One
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
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Re: All is One
Because i agreed with it!
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
Re: All is One
That is not what most people mean by prapanca. Prapanca is the tendency of the mind towards proliferation of concepts.White Lotus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:43 pm I am trying not to 'diversify' (prapanca). I am trying to unify all positions as 1. All = 1. Just 1.
Concepts lead to more concepts, not to unity.
Prapanca at root arises as a reaction to affliction. It is an exercise in self-distraction.
A way of denying existential pain/dukkha.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Re: All is One
If you want to know the mind of the Third Patriarch of Zen: Master Seng Tsan (Seng Chan) you can read his Hsing Hsing Ming: "Dwell not in the voidness conception. Settle in stable balance in oneness."[v. 4-5.p123] and: "One is all, All is one. If Thusness is ably realized, why worry you as unperfected?"[v. 34-35.p127] and:"Profound in the reality of 'one' Thusness, You are unmoved and unconditioned. All dharmas visioned in equality, You return to true naturalness."[v.24-25.p126] (Master Seng Chan's Faith Mind Maxim)[BDK English Tripitaka, "Three Chan Classics".] as far as Zen is concerned this is part of the Tripitaka. You are free to choose whether or not to accept the way i explain things. Perhaps I am ignorant. Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
Re: All is One
Have you returned to ' true naturalness' Tom? Is that where you live?
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Re: All is One
Don't you Dan?
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
Re: All is One
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
Re: All is One
If you want understand why Zen folks are sceptical about hanging out, here is your answer.Motova wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:54 pmWhite Lotus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:43 pm I am trying not to 'diversify' (prapanca). I am trying to unify all positions as 1. All = 1. Just 1.
I will be honest, I don't get what WL is trying to get across here, but banning this person never crossed my mind.
_/|\_
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.
New Haven Zen Center
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.
New Haven Zen Center
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Re: All is One
Thank you Ayu and Keith. Motova where did you dig up that picture of the White Lotus?! P.s. He couldn't break the leg of a grass hopper. (it's a secret.. Shhhooosh!).
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
Re: All is One
I have no idea what he is on about. But banning him didn't cross my mind either. Prapanca is a real problem. But it should not lead to banning, just calling what it is.KeithA wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:23 amIf you want understand why Zen folks are sceptical about hanging out, here is your answer.Motova wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:54 pmWhite Lotus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:43 pm I am trying not to 'diversify' (prapanca). I am trying to unify all positions as 1. All = 1. Just 1.
I will be honest, I don't get what WL is trying to get across here, but banning this person never crossed my mind.
_/|\_
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: All is One
I honestly don't know why the site would even have a "ban?" emoji. Ah well..round and round.
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.
New Haven Zen Center
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.
New Haven Zen Center
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- Posts: 1333
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm
Re: All is One
I think i've had one other ban in nearly 8 years so hopefully i will not be banned. But if i am my work must be done. Incidentally Keith i have found a great deal of open mindedness and wise compassion at DW. I particularly appreciate David Schneider who hosts our site with such an open hand. Rgds, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
Re: All is One
White Lotus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:43 pm I think i've had one other ban in nearly 8 years so hopefully i will not be banned. But if i am my work must be done. Incidentally Keith i have found a great deal of open mindedness and wise compassion at DW. I particularly appreciate David Schneider who hosts our site with such an open hand. Rgds, Tom.
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.
New Haven Zen Center
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.
New Haven Zen Center
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- Posts: 1333
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm
Re: All is One
Simon, i find your concept of Prapanca interesting. I see that self conceit could feed off reifying any concept, thus fuelling dukkha. Even if it is known that there is no self.
Last edited by White Lotus on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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- Posts: 1333
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm
Re: All is One
Statements such as "all is one" or "emptiness is form" would be prapanca? Proliferation? Or would prapanca be any form of elaboration?
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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- Posts: 1333
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm
Re: All is One
Simon, how do we avoid distracting ourselves with concepts?
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
Re: All is One
Direct experience.
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.