All is One

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Dan74
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Re: All is One

Post by Dan74 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:27 pm

CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:26 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:21 pm
White Lotus wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:32 pm
The six senses bring pain.
-A monk asked "What is one to do when the six thieves are laying siege to the house?"
-The master replied: "They are members of one's own family."

If you run from the six senses, you run further into delusion.

_/|\_
Dan just Zen'd you.

This is why he is a Zen Moderator ;)
Haha! I am just an old fart with an agenda. Don't believe a word of it.

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CedarTree
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Re: All is One

Post by CedarTree » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:31 pm

Dan is the national teacher reborn. This was long ago settled by divination and his use of "unusual methods" ;)
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:27 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:26 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:21 pm


-A monk asked "What is one to do when the six thieves are laying siege to the house?"
-The master replied: "They are members of one's own family."

If you run from the six senses, you run further into delusion.

_/|\_
Dan just Zen'd you.

This is why he is a Zen Moderator ;)
Haha! I am just an old fart with an agenda. Don't believe a word of it.

Practice, Practice, Practice

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Dan74
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Re: All is One

Post by Dan74 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:34 pm

CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:31 pm
Dan is the national teacher reborn. This was long ago settled by divination and his use of "unusual methods" ;)
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:27 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:26 pm


Dan just Zen'd you.

This is why he is a Zen Moderator ;)
Haha! I am just an old fart with an agenda. Don't believe a word of it.
Just send the recommended donation to the paypal email listed below and you will receive special secret instructions el pronto.

Seriously, mods remove these posts.

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CedarTree
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Re: All is One

Post by CedarTree » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:36 pm

Mods don't listen to him. Lol

In all seriousness Dan I love your Zen contributions, I think it's important sometimes as they provide a dimension of input that is incredibly important in some of these discussions as it fills in the blanks many times that are missed and well "awakened" in chan/zen.
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:34 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:31 pm
Dan is the national teacher reborn. This was long ago settled by divination and his use of "unusual methods" ;)
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:27 pm


Haha! I am just an old fart with an agenda. Don't believe a word of it.
Just send the recommended donation to the paypal email listed below and you will receive special secret instructions el pronto.

Seriously, mods remove these posts.

Practice, Practice, Practice

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Dan74
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Re: All is One

Post by Dan74 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:46 pm

CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:36 pm
Mods don't listen to him. Lol

In all seriousness Dan I love your Zen contributions, I think it's important sometimes as they provide a dimension of input that is incredibly important in some of these discussions as it fills in the blanks many times that are missed and well "awakened" in chan/zen.
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:34 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:31 pm
Dan is the national teacher reborn. This was long ago settled by divination and his use of "unusual methods" ;)

Just send the recommended donation to the paypal email listed below and you will receive special secret instructions el pronto.

Seriously, mods remove these posts.
I think the only point all of this makes is that teachers are very very important. I have no idea and not qualified to give any advice.

You know how they say that in the land of the blind, a one-eyed man is king. Well... in the land of the blind and stupid, who don't watch where they are going, the blind dude who is a bit more careful (having fallen down a fair few times) is taken for a guide. But he shouldn't be.

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CedarTree
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Re: All is One

Post by CedarTree » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:50 pm

Definitely agree, teachers are foundational.

Lots of people just being lead around by monkey mind thinking each new "moment" is it.

We even have people coming back after years and having some incredible experience and then identifying with it and creating a whole conceptual corpus around it and posting about God taking them out of time and space to love them...

Lol it's beautiful but it shows the same patterns they struggled with in their practice before. Identification, conceptualization, limiting, and self boxing in. I mean those are kind of the basics (Not that I know anything) and we still haven't got those kind of nailed down on the forum lol


Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:46 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:36 pm
Mods don't listen to him. Lol

In all seriousness Dan I love your Zen contributions, I think it's important sometimes as they provide a dimension of input that is incredibly important in some of these discussions as it fills in the blanks many times that are missed and well "awakened" in chan/zen.
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:34 pm


Just send the recommended donation to the paypal email listed below and you will receive special secret instructions el pronto.

Seriously, mods remove these posts.
I think the only point all of this makes is that teachers are very very important. I have no idea and not qualified to give any advice.

You know how they say that in the land of the blind, a one-eyed man is king. Well... in the land of the blind and stupid, who don't watch where they are going, the blind dude who is a bit more careful (having fallen down a fair few times) is taken for a guide. But he shouldn't be.

Practice, Practice, Practice

White Lotus
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Re: All is One

Post by White Lotus » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:04 pm

I like the reference to Led Zeppelin. Kashmir! Dan, can i have my head back please. its such a relief that we don't have to be anything special. Just eaten a box of chocolates. Its that craving thing! :pig:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Re: All is One

Post by White Lotus » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:49 pm

Dan, why do we not run from the 6 senses. Are you saying that they are not the source of trouble... What is? :?:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Re: All is One

Post by Dan74 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:25 pm

Ignorance and delusion are. Perceptions are not a problem in and of themselves. But even defilements aren't real when properly seen. They just seem real. Don't make two - you vs the senses, or you vs trouble, you vs defilements. But we need to learn to attend to the small details, carefully. Listening, observing, not philosophising. Just pay attention to eating that box of chocolates and to what arises, changes, goes away...

Better still - go to a few centres and settle with a good honest teacher.

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Re: All is One

Post by DGA » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:37 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:25 pm
Ignorance and delusion are. Perceptions are not a problem in and of themselves. But even defilements aren't real when properly seen. They just seem real. Don't make two - you vs the senses, or you vs trouble, you vs defilements. But we need to learn to attend to the small details, carefully. Listening, observing, not philosophising. Just pay attention to eating that box of chocolates and to what arises, changes, goes away...

Better still - go to a few centres and settle with a good honest teacher.
:good:

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Re: All is One

Post by CedarTree » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:42 pm

DGA wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:37 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:25 pm
Ignorance and delusion are. Perceptions are not a problem in and of themselves. But even defilements aren't real when properly seen. They just seem real. Don't make two - you vs the senses, or you vs trouble, you vs defilements. But we need to learn to attend to the small details, carefully. Listening, observing, not philosophising. Just pay attention to eating that box of chocolates and to what arises, changes, goes away...

Better still - go to a few centres and settle with a good honest teacher.
:good:
:good:

Practice, Practice, Practice

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Re: All is One

Post by Vasana » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:05 pm

White Lotus wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:35 pm
There has been a reduction in my defilements.
Sorry for delayed response and only partially replying but I just wanted to highlight that so long as there's been a tangible reduction in afflictions then there's not much anyone can say about your understanding even if they/we don't always agree with the way it's presented.

That said, decreasing affliction and permanently uprooting them are different things so I wish you good luck and discriminating wisdom on your quest to that realization - we sure need it!
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: All is One

Post by muni » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:17 am

White Lotus wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:26 pm
Muni, "i am" is prapanca because it is a thought we can attach to and so reinforce ego conceit? Any attaching reinforces ego? :namaste:
Yes attachment to self is ego which then attaches to whatever as being other. When even teaching, pointing to what is beyond thought become itself an object for grasping, ( as people talk here of senses) then yes attachment to concepts is what happens. Senses without object connection/grasping "hang loosely" -free. :meditate:

Teacher is said. A Master is great value, value which cannot be find in our worldly experience. But through the habitual clouds, Buddha can stand in front, guiding what is not in concepts, but then I continue to search in concepts... Study for oneself and then find a teacher can be option, so is told.

Jetsunma I posted here since this is not teaching in the limitations of tradition.
...the dharmakaya. Inseparable from emptiness, the clear and luminous aspect is called the sambhogakaya. Appearances and emptiness are inseparable, indivisible oneness, and pervade all sentient beings...
...Then nirmanakaya as tool to help sentient beings...

Till here my rambling. All the best. :anjali:
Last edited by muni on Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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Re: All is One

Post by Simon E. » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:26 am

Que?
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Re: All is One

Post by muni » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:04 am

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:24 pm
TRUSTING IN MIND (THIRD PATRIARCH OF ZEN, SENG-TS’AN)

A New Translation of the Hsin Hsin Ming, the classic poem by the Third Patriarch of Zen, Seng-Ts’an

The Great Way is not difficult,
Just don’t pick and choose.
If you cut off all likes or dislikes
Everything is clear like space.

Make the slightest distinction
And heaven and earth are set apart.
If you wish to see the truth,
Don’t think for or against.

Likes and dislikes
Are the mind’s disease.
Without understanding the deep meaning
You cannot still your thoughts.

It is clear like space,
Nothing missing, nothing extra.
If you want something
You cannot see things as they are.

Outside, don’t get tangled in things.
Inside, don’t get lost in emptiness.
Be still and become One
And all opposites disappear.

If you stop moving to become still,
This stillness always moves.
If you hold on to opposites,
How can you know One?

If you don’t understand One,
This and that cannot function.
Denied, the world asserts itself.
Pursued, emptiness is lost.

The more you think and talk,
The more you lose the Way.
Cut off all thinking
And pass freely anywhere.

Return to the root and understand.
Chase appearances and lose the source.
One moment of enlightenment
Illuminates the emptiness before you.

Emptiness changing into things
Is only our deluded view.
Do not seek the truth.
Only put down your opinions.

Do not live in the world of opposites.
Be careful! Never go that way.
If you make right and wrong,
Your mind is lost in confusion.

Two comes from One,
But do not cling even to this One.
When your mind is undisturbed
The ten thousand things are without fault.

No fault, no ten thousand things,
No disturbance, no mind.
No world, no one to see it.
No one to see it, no world.

This becomes this because of that.
That becomes that because of this.
If you wish to understand both,
See them as originally one emptiness.

In emptiness the two are the same,
And each holds the ten thousand things.
If you no longer see them as different,
How can you prefer one to another?

The Way is calm and wide,
Not easy, not difficult.
But small minds get lost.
Hurrying, they fall behind.

Clinging, they go too far,
Sure to take a wrong turn,
Just let it be! In the end,
Nothing goes, nothing stays.

Follow nature and become one with the Way,
Free and easy and undisturbed.
Tied by your thoughts, you lose the truth,
Become heavy, dull, and unwell.

Not well, the mind is troubled.
Then why hold or reject anything?
If you want to get the One Vehicle
Do not despise the world of the senses.

When you do not despise the six senses,
That is already enlightenment.
The wise do not act.
The ignorant bind themselves.

In true Dharma there is no this or that,
So why blindly chase your desires?
Using mind to stir up the mind
Is the original mistake.

Peaceful and troubled are only thinking.
Enlightenment has no likes or dislikes.
All opposites arise
From faulty views.

Illusions, flowers in the air —
Why try to grasp them?
Win, lose, right, wrong —
Put it all down!

If the eye never sleeps,
Dreams disappear by themselves.
If the mind makes no distinctions,
The ten thousand things are one essence.

Understand this dark essence
And be free from entanglements.
See the ten thousand things as equal
And you return to your original nature

Enlightened beings everywhere
All enter this source.
This source is beyond time and space.
One moment is ten thousand years.

Even if you cannot see it,
The whole universe is before your eyes.

Infinitely small is infinitely large:
No boundaries, no differences.
Infinitely large is infinitely small:
Measurements do not matter here.

What is is the same as what is not.
What is not is the same as what is.
Where it is not like this,
Don’t bother staying.

One is all,
All is one.
When you see things like this,
You do not worry about being incomplete.

Trust and Mind are not two.
Not-two is trusting the Mind.

Words and speech don’t cut it,
Can’t now, never could, won’t ever.
Ah, this says it all.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

White Lotus
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Re: All is One

Post by White Lotus » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:46 pm

It seems the illusory i always wants to affirm itself: 'I' this, 'I' that. Anything to feed it's illusion. Even 'i' take refuge. 'i' need to this, 'i' need to that. All the spinning of illusions about the fairy tale of an imaginary self. 'Who' is the master? I can't find him. As long as i am 'seeking' i am affirming notions of self. The 6 senses are not the problem. There is no problem. To say that self is 'my' problem is to affirm self. There is no self to be any problem. Just relax. Muni can i have a selfie with u! :smile:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
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Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: All is One

Post by White Lotus » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:17 pm

You this and you that! Simon, i think Seng Tsan deserves a beating. Do you want to give it to him or shall i? :soapbox:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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KeithA
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Re: All is One

Post by KeithA » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:29 pm

This post reminded me of a pretty standard Zen teaching device:

First - mountains are mountains, rivers are rivers

Before doing some practice, there is discrimination between self and other. In other words, 2.

Second - mountains are rivers, rivers are mountains

Experience of emptiness, or dissolving the discrimination. In other words, 1. One more step is necessary.

Third - mountains are mountains, rivers are rivers

Understanding true nature, just like this. Not 1. Not 2.

:coffee:

_/|\_

edit: I should have added that I suspect most of us spend our time pretty firmly in the first step, occasionally dipping into the second step. The third step is, in my humble opinion, pretty rare.

White Lotus
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Re: All is One

Post by White Lotus » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:30 pm

Thank you Keith! Yes, but don't attach to it. No attainment. Not emptiness, not reality, not 1, not no self, not enlightenment. To have concepts is to prolierate and causes conflict. Try to be free of views. I know it's not easy, especially when you 'perceive' things, even 'reality'. Just fetch you'r laundry, prepare supper and do you'r practice! :namaste:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Dan74
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Re: All is One

Post by Dan74 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:38 pm

White Lotus wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:30 pm
Just fetch you'r laundry, prepare supper and do you'r practice! :namaste:
Yes. Pay attention to the little things. Do them well. Keep your feet on the ground. Then infinite marvels will reveal themselves without any effort from you.

_/|\_

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