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Re: All is One

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:05 pm
by Motova
White Lotus wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:02 pm
This is a Zen site and if you wish to ban the teaching of Patriarch Seng Tsan then so be it.
Why didn't you respond to my refutation?

Re: All is One

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:23 pm
by White Lotus
Because i agreed with it! :smile:

Re: All is One

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:28 pm
by Motova
White Lotus wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:23 pm
Because i agreed with it! :smile:
Image

Re: All is One

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:36 pm
by Simon E.
White Lotus wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:43 pm
I am trying not to 'diversify' (prapanca). I am trying to unify all positions as 1. All = 1. Just 1. :namaste:
That is not what most people mean by prapanca. Prapanca is the tendency of the mind towards proliferation of concepts.
Concepts lead to more concepts, not to unity.
Prapanca at root arises as a reaction to affliction. It is an exercise in self-distraction.
A way of denying existential pain/dukkha.

Re: All is One

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:18 pm
by White Lotus
If you want to know the mind of the Third Patriarch of Zen: Master Seng Tsan (Seng Chan) you can read his Hsing Hsing Ming: "Dwell not in the voidness conception. Settle in stable balance in oneness."[v. 4-5.p123] and: "One is all, All is one. If Thusness is ably realized, why worry you as unperfected?"[v. 34-35.p127] and:"Profound in the reality of 'one' Thusness, You are unmoved and unconditioned. All dharmas visioned in equality, You return to true naturalness."[v.24-25.p126] (Master Seng Chan's Faith Mind Maxim)[BDK English Tripitaka, "Three Chan Classics".] as far as Zen is concerned this is part of the Tripitaka. You are free to choose whether or not to accept the way i explain things. Perhaps I am ignorant. Tom. :reading:

Re: All is One

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:21 pm
by Simon E.
Have you returned to ' true naturalness' Tom? Is that where you live?

Re: All is One

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:09 pm
by White Lotus
Don't you Dan? :meditate:

Re: All is One

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:28 pm
by Motova
Image

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:26 am
by Ayu
What is the problem?

Nothing. :tongue:

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:23 am
by KeithA
Motova wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:54 pm
White Lotus wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:43 pm
I am trying not to 'diversify' (prapanca). I am trying to unify all positions as 1. All = 1. Just 1. :namaste:
:ban:
If you want understand why Zen folks are sceptical about hanging out, here is your answer.

I will be honest, I don't get what WL is trying to get across here, but banning this person never crossed my mind.

_/|\_

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:21 pm
by White Lotus
Thank you Ayu and Keith. Motova where did you dig up that picture of the White Lotus?! P.s. He couldn't break the leg of a grass hopper. (it's a secret.. Shhhooosh!). :applause:

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:31 pm
by Simon E.
KeithA wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:23 am
Motova wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:54 pm
White Lotus wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:43 pm
I am trying not to 'diversify' (prapanca). I am trying to unify all positions as 1. All = 1. Just 1. :namaste:
:ban:
If you want understand why Zen folks are sceptical about hanging out, here is your answer.

I will be honest, I don't get what WL is trying to get across here, but banning this person never crossed my mind.

_/|\_
I have no idea what he is on about. But banning him didn't cross my mind either. Prapanca is a real problem. But it should not lead to banning, just calling what it is.

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:42 pm
by KeithA
Simon E. wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:31 pm
KeithA wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:23 am
Motova wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:54 pm


:ban:
If you want understand why Zen folks are sceptical about hanging out, here is your answer.

I will be honest, I don't get what WL is trying to get across here, but banning this person never crossed my mind.

_/|\_
I have no idea what he is on about. But banning him didn't cross my mind either. Prapanca is a real problem. But it should not lead to banning, just calling what it is.
I honestly don't know why the site would even have a "ban?" emoji. Ah well..round and round.

Keith

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:43 pm
by White Lotus
I think i've had one other ban in nearly 8 years so hopefully i will not be banned. But if i am my work must be done. Incidentally Keith i have found a great deal of open mindedness and wise compassion at DW. I particularly appreciate David Schneider who hosts our site with such an open hand. Rgds, Tom. :anjali:

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:44 pm
by KeithA
White Lotus wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:43 pm
I think i've had one other ban in nearly 8 years so hopefully i will not be banned. But if i am my work must be done. Incidentally Keith i have found a great deal of open mindedness and wise compassion at DW. I particularly appreciate David Schneider who hosts our site with such an open hand. Rgds, Tom. :anjali:
:twothumbsup:

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:49 pm
by Motova

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:03 pm
by White Lotus
Simon, i find your concept of Prapanca interesting. I see that self conceit could feed off reifying any concept, thus fuelling dukkha. Even if it is known that there is no self.

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:10 pm
by White Lotus
Statements such as "all is one" or "emptiness is form" would be prapanca? Proliferation? Or would prapanca be any form of elaboration? :?:

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:16 pm
by White Lotus
Simon, how do we avoid distracting ourselves with concepts? :?:

Re: All is One

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:51 pm
by Motova
Direct experience.