reading Dogen's Shobogenzo

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DGA
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reading Dogen's Shobogenzo

Post by DGA »

I have PDFs of all four volumes of the RPK translation of the Shobogenzo. I've not opened them yet.

I'd appreciate some suggestions on where to start, and any commentaries that may have been translated in English.

Thanks.
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Astus
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Re: reading Dogen's Shobogenzo

Post by Astus »

DGA wrote: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:21 pmI have PDFs of all four volumes of the RPK translation of the Shobogenzo. I've not opened them yet.
Do you mean the Nishijima-Cross translation published online by BDK?
I'd appreciate some suggestions on where to start
If it is the BDK edition, then in my opinion that translation is not the best first choice (that would be Tanahashi's). Perhaps start from the back where more general Mahayana topics are "Dogenised".
any commentaries that may have been translated in English.
I have not heard of any such thing. You can try the Soto journal Dharma Eye for the probably best translations with annotation, and other related articles. And of course there are some more popular chapters discussed by various teachers (e.g. Deepest Practice, Deepest Wisdom, The Mountains and Waters Sutra, Being-Time).
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
DGA
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Re: reading Dogen's Shobogenzo

Post by DGA »

Astus wrote: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:49 pm
DGA wrote: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:21 pmI have PDFs of all four volumes of the RPK translation of the Shobogenzo. I've not opened them yet.
Do you mean the Nishijima-Cross translation published online by BDK?
I'd appreciate some suggestions on where to start
If it is the BDK edition, then in my opinion that translation is not the best first choice (that would be Tanahashi's). Perhaps start from the back where more general Mahayana topics are "Dogenised".
any commentaries that may have been translated in English.
I have not heard of any such thing. You can try the Soto journal Dharma Eye for the probably best translations with annotation, and other related articles. And of course there are some more popular chapters discussed by various teachers (e.g. Deepest Practice, Deepest Wisdom, The Mountains and Waters Sutra, Being-Time).
Thank you for the helpful reply, Astus.

Yes, I meant the BDK edition. RPK is an unrelated problem I need to solve at work...

Would you mind elaborating on why you prefer Tanahashi's translation to the BDK edition?

I'll have a look at the texts you suggest.
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Astus
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Re: reading Dogen's Shobogenzo

Post by Astus »

DGA wrote: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:20 amWould you mind elaborating on why you prefer Tanahashi's translation to the BDK edition?
It simply felt like an easier read, although otherwise not necessarily the most accurate translation. But probably you should decide it for yourself.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
DGA
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Re: reading Dogen's Shobogenzo

Post by DGA »

Thank you, Astus.

Is anyone here familiar with Okamura's Realizing Genjokoan?

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/811 ... -genjokoan

I'm looking for some context on the Shobogenzo, preferably from a more traditional perspective, before I plow into it.

I'll take a look at the Being-Time volume Astus suggested.
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Re: reading Dogen's Shobogenzo

Post by White Lotus »

Yasutani's "Flowers Fall" is a commentary on the Genjokoan and well worth reading. discusses "absolute manifest reality" (Genjokoan). my perspective sees things as totally empty and yet totally real. for another book on reality Gudo Nishijima's selection of Dogen's koans (Shobogenzo) is very clear.

I'm sorry that Yasutani is not always seen as conventional since I believe he was Sanbo Kyodan. I still feel that he is helpful and worth a read.

the Dharmakaya is Buddha nature and is absolutely real when seen to be so and yet absolutely empty.

hope this helps, rgds, Tom. :smile:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
RBK
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Re: reading Dogen's Shobogenzo

Post by RBK »

DGA I really recommend Okumura’s commentaries, including Realizing Genjokoan, which is sitting next to my bed funnily enough. They are a great way to get you teeth into Dogen.

Hee-Jin Kim’s Eihei Dogen: Mystical Realist is also very helpful in getting your head around some of the key concepts and core aspects of Dogen’s thought.
Miguel
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Re: reading Dogen's Shobogenzo

Post by Miguel »

Another commentary on the shobogenzo is Kosho Uchiyama's "the wholehearted way": https://www.amazon.com/Wholehearted-Way ... way&sr=8-3

And another translation of it is Hubert Nearman's : https://www.shastaabbey.org/pdf/shoboAll.pdf
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