Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

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Queequeg
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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by Queequeg » Wed May 27, 2020 5:28 pm

LastLegend wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:06 pm
How I am supposed to tell you without being non-sensical that it also takes me 10 years to recognize what’s behind moving feet and hands (scratching)?
I think you just did. One does not need to resort to free form word associations to impress that understanding even a simple movement like walking is extremely difficult. You don't need vague references to a stroll under moonlight to convince a robotics engineer trying to teach hunks of plastic, metal, and circuitry how hard it is to walk.

Of course, if that is a preferred mode of communication, that's certainly possible.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by Meido » Wed May 27, 2020 5:38 pm

LastLegend wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:25 pm
If I may erroneously take this as directing at me, your view is also a personal view.
It is, in fact, erroneous. What I wrote was not directed at you, or anyone specific here.
LastLegend wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:25 pm
This a view of strict discipline and practice but it’s not shared by all Zen and it shouldn’t be because it means no hope for people without strict discipline and practice. I will stand strongly to strong convictions and aspirations.
Regarding convictions, aspirations, and practice see the 3rd of the Four Vows.
LastLegend wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:25 pm
It’s same assumption here that you make about all Zen practitioners that seem new agey.
If "new agey" means obviously adharmic, or simply not connected with actual Zen teaching and practice, then yes, I might make that same assumption. But I'm not sure what you have in mind.
LastLegend wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:25 pm
I would not promote any action as authoritative towards liberation. It could go wrong anytime even if it has good intention. I have my personal preferences as well.
Not sure I follow here. I was opining regarding online forums.

Nevertheless, we can say that setting aside one's personal preferences is the first requirement.
It is relatively easy to accomplish the important matter of insight into one’s true nature, but uncommonly difficult to function freely and clearly [according to this understanding], in motion and in rest, in good and in adverse circumstances. Please make strenuous and vigorous efforts towards this end, otherwise all the teachings of Buddhas and patriarchs become mere empty words. - Torei

The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice

Hidden Zen: Practices for Sudden Awakening and Embodied Realization

Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

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LastLegend
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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by LastLegend » Wed May 27, 2020 5:51 pm

Meido wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:38 pm

Regarding convictions, aspirations, and practice see the 3rd of the Four Vows.
Sorry I don’t have a lineage. I don’t follow regular vows. And I don’t need recognition for my personal vows. My personal belief is the horse has been dead for 500 years.
Nevertheless, we can say that setting aside one's personal preferences is the first requirement.
You have me here. But again I truly think that a dead horse has not been revived. If you don’t get my analogy that’s fine.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.

tkp67
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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by tkp67 » Wed May 27, 2020 6:24 pm

The information age is such that these dynamics will only increase .

Would the Buddha gate keep his teachings or adapt them to meet this dynamic.

Fwiw if the doors of Buddhism are open to all isn't this the perfect medium to facilitate this across the whole of the human demographic? Doesn't that mean adapting to meet the new dynamics would be facilitating the wishes of the Buddhas?

Malcolm
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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by Malcolm » Wed May 27, 2020 6:46 pm

Meido wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 4:50 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:30 pm
Its what I see it in forums like this, that is just not appealing to me, and I sense some people use the aesthetic to paper over their own tentative understandings. That makes me wonder, what benefit such elliptical language/thought is supposed to do for someone who doesn't yet actually have genuine insight? It just looks like word play.
Queequeg wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 4:15 pm
Whatever floats your boat, but it seems immersing oneself in spontaneous word soups is not a particularly effective practice without a solid grasp of basics.
Well, I share your annoyance.

The kind of Zen talk that we often see aped in online forums is the encounter dialogue between masters and their disciples that can be found in many texts. These were not originally word soup, and did not occur among people who lacked an understanding of basics.

But the problem obviously is not that we have an over-abundance of Zen masters using true living words in that manner. It is that there are people with little or no Zen practice experience who read such things, are attracted by a style seemingly of iconoclastic freedom and mysterious spontaneity, and adopt it as an affectation.
Yes, we used to have a word for this bank in the days of Punk Rock: poseurs.

And this behavior is silly, and makes Zen look ridiculous and trivial (it isn't).

People whacking each other with sticks on line and uttering mysterious profundities (aka gibberish) is just sad.

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by Meido » Wed May 27, 2020 7:01 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:46 pm
Yes, we used to have a word for this bank in the days of Punk Rock: poseurs.

And this behavior is silly, and makes Zen look ridiculous and trivial (it isn't).

People whacking each other with sticks on line and uttering mysterious profundities (aka gibberish) is just sad.
Yep.
It is relatively easy to accomplish the important matter of insight into one’s true nature, but uncommonly difficult to function freely and clearly [according to this understanding], in motion and in rest, in good and in adverse circumstances. Please make strenuous and vigorous efforts towards this end, otherwise all the teachings of Buddhas and patriarchs become mere empty words. - Torei

The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice

Hidden Zen: Practices for Sudden Awakening and Embodied Realization

Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

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LastLegend
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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by LastLegend » Wed May 27, 2020 8:54 pm

No. We are not going back there.

We are going back to the Absolute!
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by seeker242 » Wed May 27, 2020 8:57 pm

LastLegend wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:36 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:03 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:23 pm
Admittedly, I'm not familiar with Zen and Zen-speak, or what I take to be Zen-speak from what I see in forums like this.

Why the hangup with conventional designations? If you understand that designations are conventional, then what's the need in speaking cryptically about dharma as though its some cute game? I don't see what the problem is with seeking articulate and meaningful explanations of Buddhadharma without resorting to hazy double-speak, puns, and other such nonsensical conventions to undermine subjects being discussed.

Maybe I just need to see myself out.

Probably because of stuff like this:

"Giving rise to thought is erroneous, and any speculation about it with our ordinary faculties is inapplicable, irrelevant and inaccurate." ~Huang-po, Chung-Ling Record

My teacher told me once that zen does not really do explanations, it does demonstrations. I would add that an explanation of the demonstration essentially defeats the purpose of the demonstration to begin with. And also one really can't get a proper demonstration from a book. A live teacher is needed, at least initially, for that.

:meditate:
Unless the teacher is fully realized, it’s hardly the case now that no explanation works. We are in a modern era.
I think explanation works to understand things. But that brings to mind something else my teacher said: Zen is not about understanding something. :meditate:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by npr » Wed May 27, 2020 11:32 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:01 pm
npr wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 3:36 pm
Since the One-Mind is empty of intrinsic existence, what does it depend on ?

Thank you.
Aha! In that statement, the age-old trap that ensnares almost every Dharma student:

“What does it depend on?”

This is what happens, starting with the premise of something truly existent, and then afterwards, trying to dissect it to see what it’s made from. And the problem with that is, you can’t get the right answer if the question is wrong to begin with. You are assuming the existence of an “it” which is merely an abstract concept representing s multitude of events.

I think your question about “absolute” is best answers in the famous zen poem, On Believing In Mind:

In the higher realm of true Suchness
There is neither "self" nor "other":
When direct identification is sought,
We can only say, "Not two".

In being "not two" all is the same,
All that is is comprehended in it;
The wise in the ten quarters,
They all enter into this Absolute Reason.

This Absolute Reason is beyond time and space,
For it one instant is ten thousand years;
Whether we see it or not,
It is manifest everywhere in all the ten quarters.


•••

PadmaVonSamba,

Queequeg suggests that The One-Mind "It depends on causes and conditions." I ask: What causes and conditions?


It seems that instead of simply saying that you are not able to answer this question you maneuver with puns.

and you use the word 'IT' yourself in your reply, referring to Being 'not-two'. not to a mere object/phenomena. Nice poem.

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by LastLegend » Wed May 27, 2020 11:39 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:57 pm
LastLegend wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:36 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:03 pm



Probably because of stuff like this:

"Giving rise to thought is erroneous, and any speculation about it with our ordinary faculties is inapplicable, irrelevant and inaccurate." ~Huang-po, Chung-Ling Record

My teacher told me once that zen does not really do explanations, it does demonstrations. I would add that an explanation of the demonstration essentially defeats the purpose of the demonstration to begin with. And also one really can't get a proper demonstration from a book. A live teacher is needed, at least initially, for that.

:meditate:
Unless the teacher is fully realized, it’s hardly the case now that no explanation works. We are in a modern era.
I think explanation works to understand things. But that brings to mind something else my teacher said: Zen is not about understanding something. :meditate:
It’s not, but when I was told what consciousness means. How it functions. I go look...for a long time. I also don’t undermine the difficulty of recognizing the absolute and difficulty of transcending to the absolute. Maybe that’s a personal experience.

I don’t agree with strict discipline and practice is the only way to bring fruit. Today, I can be a mad, deluded person creates all sort of karma, tomorrow I might take one step straight to the absolute fruit. Because all I have to do is transcend that consciousness which perhaps not historically taught across Zen schools? People have reasons to disagree I can live with that, but I don’t overlook and take this teaching I’ve received for granted because I know my struggle.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by seeker242 » Thu May 28, 2020 1:31 am

LastLegend wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:39 pm

It’s not, but when I was told what consciousness means. How it functions. I go look...for a long time. I also don’t undermine the difficulty of recognizing the absolute and difficulty of transcending to the absolute. Maybe that’s a personal experience.

I don’t agree with strict discipline and practice is the only way to bring fruit. Today, I can be a mad, deluded person creates all sort of karma, tomorrow I might take one step straight to the absolute fruit. Because all I have to do is transcend that consciousness which perhaps not historically taught across Zen schools? People have reasons to disagree I can live with that, but I don’t overlook and take this teaching I’ve received for granted because I know my struggle.
I don't take this teaching I’ve received for granted either. :smile: But, I also don't think you can find it in books and ideas. I would even go so far as to say that you can't even find it in a fully realized master sitting right next to you! But if not there then were is it found? I think a better question to ask is why does something else need to be found to begin with? Why is what is already right here not good enough?

:anjali:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by LastLegend » Thu May 28, 2020 1:52 am

It depends on the individual it happens that someone can make a big leap right away to the Absolute just hearing a line from someone (even if that someone is still deluded). This is very unique because that person has a simple mind and had great aspirations in their past life. Either that or that person is ready to be ripened. I myself still have my issues. It also happens between student and teacher in form of questions and answers. Many possible scenarios.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Thu May 28, 2020 3:23 am

npr wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:32 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:01 pm
npr wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 3:36 pm
Since the One-Mind is empty of intrinsic existence, what does it depend on ?

Thank you.
Aha! In that statement, the age-old trap that ensnares almost every Dharma student:

“What does it depend on?”

This is what happens, starting with the premise of something truly existent, and then afterwards, trying to dissect it to see what it’s made from. And the problem with that is, you can’t get the right answer if the question is wrong to begin with. You are assuming the existence of an “it” which is merely an abstract concept representing s multitude of events.

I think your question about “absolute” is best answers in the famous zen poem, On Believing In Mind:

In the higher realm of true Suchness
There is neither "self" nor "other":
When direct identification is sought,
We can only say, "Not two".

In being "not two" all is the same,
All that is is comprehended in it;
The wise in the ten quarters,
They all enter into this Absolute Reason.

This Absolute Reason is beyond time and space,
For it one instant is ten thousand years;
Whether we see it or not,
It is manifest everywhere in all the ten quarters.


•••

PadmaVonSamba,

Queequeg suggests that The One-Mind "It depends on causes and conditions." I ask: What causes and conditions?


It seems that instead of simply saying that you are not able to answer this question you maneuver with puns.

and you use the word 'IT' yourself in your reply, referring to Being 'not-two'. not to a mere object/phenomena. Nice poem.
I used “it” within the context of a mistaken presumption, which is explained.

intrinsic existence vs. dependent arising,
From the Zen point of view, this is still reasoning trapped in duality, which is why the author of the poem, Seng-ts'an, writes “not-two”.

Yes, it is one of the greatest poems, I think.

Is there “one mind” which is absolute?
I think, yes. Awareness. It is there regardless of conditions. It cannot be refuted.
Awareness is both the subject and, when awareness is aware of awareness, also the object.
。。。
Profile Picture: "The Fo Ming (Buddha Bright) Monk"
People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by LastLegend » Thu May 28, 2020 4:57 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:23 am
npr wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:32 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:01 pm


Aha! In that statement, the age-old trap that ensnares almost every Dharma student:

“What does it depend on?”

This is what happens, starting with the premise of something truly existent, and then afterwards, trying to dissect it to see what it’s made from. And the problem with that is, you can’t get the right answer if the question is wrong to begin with. You are assuming the existence of an “it” which is merely an abstract concept representing s multitude of events.

I think your question about “absolute” is best answers in the famous zen poem, On Believing In Mind:

In the higher realm of true Suchness
There is neither "self" nor "other":
When direct identification is sought,
We can only say, "Not two".

In being "not two" all is the same,
All that is is comprehended in it;
The wise in the ten quarters,
They all enter into this Absolute Reason.

This Absolute Reason is beyond time and space,
For it one instant is ten thousand years;
Whether we see it or not,
It is manifest everywhere in all the ten quarters.


•••

PadmaVonSamba,

Queequeg suggests that The One-Mind "It depends on causes and conditions." I ask: What causes and conditions?


It seems that instead of simply saying that you are not able to answer this question you maneuver with puns.

and you use the word 'IT' yourself in your reply, referring to Being 'not-two'. not to a mere object/phenomena. Nice poem.
I used “it” within the context of a mistaken presumption, which is explained.

intrinsic existence vs. dependent arising,
From the Zen point of view, this is still reasoning trapped in duality, which is why the author of the poem, Seng-ts'an, writes “not-two”.

Yes, it is one of the greatest poems, I think.

Is there “one mind” which is absolute?
I think, yes. Awareness. It is there regardless of conditions. It cannot be refuted.
Awareness is both the subject and, when awareness is aware of awareness, also the object.
。。。
“The Buddha Asks the Twenty-five Great Bodhisattvas and Great Arhats How They Attained Enlightenment.

Universal Worthy Bodhisattva arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I have been a Dharma Prince with as many Thus Come Ones as there are sand grains in the Ganges. The Thus Come Ones of the ten directions tell their disciples who have the roots of a Bodhisattva to cultivate the Universal Worthy conduct, which is named after me. World Honored One, I use my mind to listen and distinguish the knowledge and views of beings. In other regions as many realms away as there are sand grains in the Ganges, for each being who resolves to practice the conduct of Universal Worthy, I immediately mount my six-tusked elephant and create hundreds of thousands of reduplicated bodies which go to those places. Although their obstacles may be so heavy that they cannot see me, I secretly rub their crowns, protect and comfort them, and help them succeed. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. The basic cause I speak of is listening with the mind, distinguishing at ease, and emitting light. This is the foremost means.”

When Contemplator of the World’s Sounds Bodhisattva (Avalokiteshvara) arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha: “World Honored One, I remember when, as many eons ago as there are sand grains in the Ganges, there was a Buddha in the world named Contemplator of the World’s Sounds. I brought forth the Bodhi-resolve while with that Buddha, who taught me to enter samádhi through a process of hearing and reflecting (cultivation). Initially, I entered into the flow of hearing and forgot the place of entry. Since both that place and the entry were quiet, the two attributes of motion and stillness cancelled each other out and did not arise. After that, gradually advancing, the hearing and what was heard both disappeared. Once the hearing was ended, there was nothing to rely on, and both awareness and its objects became empty. When the emptiness of awareness was ultimately perfected, emptiness and what was being emptied then also ceased to be. With arising and ceasing gone, tranquility was revealed. Suddenly I transcended the worldly and transcendental, and a perfect brightness prevailed throughout the ten directions. I obtained two supreme states. First, I united above with the fundamental wonderfully enlightened mind of all the Buddhas of the ten directions, and gained a strength of compassion equal to that of all Buddhas, Thus Come Ones. Second, I united below with all beings in the six paths, and gained a kind regard for all living beings.”
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by LastLegend » Thu May 28, 2020 5:27 am

There are samadhis of Arahants and Bodhisattvas, although Avalokiteshvara has become a Buddha from many past life. There is distinction between Samadhis.

Which one is the Absolute?

Here is the rest:
The Buddha Asks the Twenty-five Great Bodhisattvas and Great Arhats How They Attained Enlightenment
Then the World Honored One told all those in the assembly who were great Bodhisattvas and great Arhats with their outflows extinguished, “All of you Bodhisattvas and Arhats who are born from within my Dharma and have attained the stage beyond study, I now ask you: When you first brought forth your resolve and became enlightened to the eighteen realms, which one of these brought perfect penetration? Through which expedient did you enter samádhi?
Kaundinya with the others of the first five Bhikshus, arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “When I was in the Deer Park and the Pheasant Garden, I observed the Thus Come One immediately after his accomplishment of the Way. Upon hearing the Buddha’s voice, I understood the Four Truths. The Buddha is questioning us Bhikshus. As I was the first to understand, the Thus Come One certified me and named me Ajnata. His wonderful sound was both secret and all pervasive. It was through sound that I became an Arhat. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, sound is the foremost means.”

Upanishad arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I also saw the Buddha when he first accomplished the Way. I learned to contemplate the attributes of impurity until I grew to loathe it and came to understand that the nature of all forms is unclean. Bare bones and fine dust all return to emptiness, and so both emptiness and forms are done away with. With this realization, I accomplished the path beyond study. The Thus Come One certified me and named me Upanishad. Objects of form came to an end, and wonderful form was both secret and all pervasive. Thus, it was through the attributes of forms that I became an Arhat. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, forms are the foremost means.”

The pure youth, Exalted by Fragrance, arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I heard the Thus Come One teach me to contemplate attentively all conditioned phenomena. I then left the Buddha and dwelt quietly in a pure abode. I observed that when the Bhikshus lit ‘sinking’ incense, its fragrant scent quietly entered my nostrils. I contemplated this fragrance: it did not come from the wood; it did not come from emptiness; it did not come from the smoke, and it did not come from the fire. There was no place it came from and no place it went to. Because of that, my discriminating mind was dispelled, and I attained the absence of outflows. The Thus Come One certified me and called me Exalted by Fragrance. Defiling scents suddenly vanished, and the wonderful fragrance was both secret and all pervasive. It was through the adornment of fragrance that I became an Arhat. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, being exalted by fragrances are the foremost means.”

The two Dharma-Princes, Medicine King and Superior Medicine, and five hundred Brahma gods in the assembly arose from their seats, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, From beginning-less eons until now, we have been good doctors for the world. Our mouths have tasted many herbs, wood, metals, and stones of the Saha world, a hundred and eight thousand flavors. We know in detail the bitter, sour, salty, bland, sweet, and pungent flavors, and the like, in all their combinations and inherent changes. We have a thorough knowledge of whether they are cooling or warming, poisonous or non-poisonous. While serving the Thus Come One we came to know that the nature of flavors is neither empty nor existent, nor of the body or of the mind, nor apart from body or the mind. We became enlightened by discriminating among flavors. The Thus Come One sealed and certified us brothers and named us Bodhisattvas Medicine King and Superior Medicine. Now in the assembly we are Dharma Princes who have ascended to the Bodhisattva level due to having become enlightened by means of flavors. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As we have been certified to it, the cause offlavors is the foremost means.”

Bhadrapala and sixteen awakened lords who were his companions, arose from their seats, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha “We first heard the Dharma and left the home life under King of Awesome Sound Buddha. Once, when it was time for the Sangha to bathe, I followed the custom and entered the bathhouse. Suddenly I awakened to the fact that water does not wash away the dust, nor does it cleanse the body. And in that moment I became peaceful and attained the state of there being nothing at all. To this day, I have never forgotten that experience. Having left home with the Buddha, I have advanced beyond study. The Buddha named me Bhadrapala. Wonderful touch was revealed, and I reached the level of being a disciple of the Buddha. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, touch is the foremost means.”

Mahakashyapa, Bhikkhuní Purple-golden Light and others arose from their seats, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha: “In a past eon in this region, I drew near to the Buddha named Sun, Moon, and Lamp, who was then in the world. I heard the Dharma from him and cultivated and studied with him. After that Buddha entered tranquility, I made offerings to his sharira and lit lamps to continue his light. Bhikkhuní Purple-Golden-Light gilded the Buddha’s image. From that time on, in life after life, my body has always been perfect and has shone with a purple-golden light. The Bhikkhuní Purple-Golden Light, and others make up my retinue, and we all brought forth the resolve for Bodhi at the same time. I contemplated that the world’s six sense-objects change and decay; they are but empty stillness. Based on this, I cultivated tranquility. Now my body and mind can pass through hundreds of thousands of eons as though they were a finger-snap. Based on the emptiness of dharmas, I accomplished Arhat-ship. The World Honored One says that I am foremost in dhuta ascetic practices. Wonderful Dharma brought me awakening and understanding, and I put an end to all outflows. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, dharmas are the foremost means.”

Aniruddha arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “When I first left home, I was fond of sleeping all the time. The Thus Come One scolded me and said I was no better than an animal. When I heard the Buddha’s scolding, I wept and upbraided myself. For seven days I did not sleep, and I lost the sight in both my eyes. The World Honored One taught me the Vajra Samádhi of the Delightful Seeing, which Illumines and is Bright. Without using my eyes, I could contemplate the ten directions with true and penetrating clarity, just as if I were looking at a piece of fruit in the palm of my hand. The Thus Come One certified me as having attained Arhat-ship. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, returning the seeing back to its source is the foremost means.”

Kshudrapanthaka arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha: “I am deficient in the ability to memorize and do not have much innate intelligence. When I first met the Buddha, I heard the Dharma and left the home life. But, when I tried to remember one line of a verse by the Thus Come One, I spent a hundred days remembering the first part and forgetting the last, or remembering the last and forgetting the first. The Buddha pitied my dullness and taught me to relax and to regulate my breath. I contemplated my breath thoroughly to the subtle point in which arising, dwelling, decay, and ceasing happen in every moment. My mind suddenly attained vast non-obstruction, until my outflows were ended and I accomplished Arhat-ship. Beneath the Buddha’s seat I was sealed and certified as being beyond study. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, turning the breath back to emptiness is the foremost means.”

Gavampati arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I created an offense that resulted in mouth karma in a past eon. I slighted a Shramana, and in life after life I’ve had this cow-cud sickness. The Thus Come One taught me the mind-ground Dharma-door of the purity of a single flavor. My thoughts ended, I entered samádhi, and learned by contemplating flavors—how they have no substance and are not things. As a result my mind transcended all worldly outflows. Internally my body and mind were liberated and externally I abandoned the world. I left the three realms of existence far behind, just like a bird released from its cage. I separated from filth and wiped out defilements, and so my Dharma eye became pure, and I accomplished Arhat-ship. The Thus Come One personally certified me as having ascended to the stage beyond study. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, returning flavor and turning awareness around is the foremost means.”

Pilindavatsa arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha: “When I first resolved to follow the Buddha and enter the Way, I often heard the Thus Come One explain how there is nothing in this world that brings happiness. Once, when I was on alms rounds in the city, I was reflecting on this Dharma-door and did not notice a poisonous thorn on the road until it had pricked my foot. My mind was aware of the strong physical pain, but although my awareness experienced the pain, I was also aware that in my pure heart there was neither pain nor awareness of it. I also thought, ‘Is it possible for one body to have two awareness’s?’ Having reflected on this for a short while, my body and mind became suddenly empty. After twenty-one days, my outflows disappeared and I accomplished Arhat-ship. The Buddha personally certified me and confirmed that I had realized the level beyond study. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, purifying the awareness and forgetting the body is the foremost means.”

Subhuti arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “From distant eons until now, my mind has been unobstructed. I remember as many of my past lives as there are sand grains in the Ganges. From the beginning, in my mother’s womb, I knew emptiness and tranquility, to the extent that the ten directions became empty and I caused beings to be certified to the nature of emptiness. Having received the Thus Come One’s revelation that the enlightened nature is true emptiness and that the nature of emptiness is perfect and bright, I attained Arhat-ship. I suddenly entered into the Thus Come One’s sea of magnificent, bright emptiness. My knowledge and views became identical with the Buddhas. I was certified as being beyond study. In the liberation of the nature of emptiness, I am unsurpassed. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, all phenomena enter into nothingness until nothingness and what becomes nothingness both disappear. Turning dharmas back to the void is the foremost means.”

Shariputra arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “From distant eons until the present, my mind and views have been pure. In this way I have undergone as many births as there are sand grains in the Ganges. At one glance I am able to understand all the various transformations and changes of both what is worldly and what is world transcending without any obstruction. Once I met the Kasyapa brothers on the road, and walked along with them. They spoke about causes and conditions, and I awakened to the boundlessness of my mind. I followed the Buddha and left the home life. My seeing-awareness became bright and perfect, I obtained great fearlessness and became an Arhat. As one of the Buddha’s elder disciples, I am born from the Buddha’s mouth, transformation ally born from the Dharma. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. As I have been certified to it, for the mind and the seeing to emit light and for the light to radiate throughout both knowing and seeing is the foremost means.”

Universal Worthy Bodhisattvaarose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I have been a Dharma Prince with as many Thus Come Ones as there are sand grains in the Ganges. The Thus Come Ones of the ten directions tell their disciples who have the roots of a Bodhisattva to cultivate the Universal Worthy conduct, which is named after me. World Honored One, I use my mind to listen and distinguish the knowledge and views of beings. In other regions as many realms away as there are sand grains in the Ganges, for each being who resolves to practice the conduct of Universal Worthy, I immediately mount my six-tusked elephant and create hundreds of thousands of reduplicated bodies which go to those places. Although their obstacles may be so heavy that they cannot see me, I secretly rub their crowns, protect and comfort them, and help them succeed. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. The basic cause I speak of is listening with the mind, distinguishing at ease, and emitting light. This is the foremost means.”

SundarÁnanda arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “When I first left home and followed the Buddha to enter the Way, I received the complete precepts, but my mind was always too scattered for samádhi, and I could not attain the state of having no outflows. The World Honored One taught Kaushthila and me to contemplate the white spot at the tip of our noses. From the first, I contemplated intently. After three weeks, I saw that when I inhaled and exhaled, the breath in my nostrils looked like smoke. Internally my body and mind became bright, and externally I perfectly understood that the world was like crystal, empty and pure. The smoky appearance gradually disappeared, and the breath in my nostrils became white. My mind opened and my outflows were ended. Every inhalation and exhalation of breath was transformed into light, which illumined the ten directions, and I attained Arhat-ship. The World Honored One predicted that in the future I would obtain Bodhi. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. I did it by means of the disappearance of the breath, until eventually the breath emitted light and the light completely extinguished my outflows. That is the foremost means.”

Purnamaitreyaniputra arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “For vast eons I have possessed unobstructed eloquence. When I discuss suffering and emptiness I penetrate deeply into ultimate reality. In the same way, I feel no fear as I give subtle, wonderful instruction to the assembly concerning the secret Dharma doors of as many Thus Come Ones as there are sand grains in the Ganges. The World Honored One knew that I had great eloquence, and, using his sound to turn the Dharma wheel, taught me to propagate the Dharma. I joined the Buddha to help him turn the Dharma wheel. I accomplished Arhat-ship due to his lion’s roar. The World Honored One certified me as being foremost in speaking Dharma. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. I used the sounds of Dharma to subdue demons and adversaries and to melt away my outflows. That is the foremost means.”

Upali arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I followed the Buddha in person when he fled the city and left the home life. I observed the Thus Come One endure six years of diligent asceticism. I watched the Thus Come One subdue all the demons, and adherents of external paths and become liberated from all outflows based on worldly desire and greed. I based myself on the Buddha’s teaching of precepts, encompassing the three thousand awesome deportments and the eighty thousand subtle aspects until both my karma of the nature and karma of restraint became pure. My body and mind became tranquil, and I accomplished Arhat-ship. In the Thus Come One’s assembly, I record the rules governing discipline. The Buddha himself certified my mind’s upholding of the precepts and my genuine cultivation of them. I am considered a leader of the assembly. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. I disciplined the body until it attained ease and comfort. Then I disciplined the mind until it attained penetrating clarity. After that, both body and mind experienced keen and thorough absorption. That is the foremost means.”

Maha Maudgalyayana arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “Once when I was out on the road doing alms rounds, I met the three Kasyapa brothers—Uruvilva, Gaya, and Nadi—who proclaimed for me the Thus Come One’s profound principle of causes and conditions. I immediately brought forth the resolve and obtained a great understanding. The Thus Come One accepted me, I was spontaneously clad in the kashaya and my hair and beard fell out by themselves. I roamed the ten directions, having no impeding obstructions. My spiritual penetrations, which are esteemed as unsurpassed, and I accomplished Arhat-ship. Not only the World Honored One, but the Thus Come Ones of the ten directions praise my spiritual powers as being perfectly clear and pure, masterful, and fearless. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. By means of unrelenting attention to the profound, the light of my mind was revealed, just as water becomes clear when the mud settles. Eventually my mind became pure and lustrous. That is the foremost means.”

Ucchushma came before the Buddha, put his palms together, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to him, “I can still remember how many eons ago I was filled with excessive greed and desire. The Buddha named King of Emptiness was in the world, and he said that people with too much lustful desire turn into a raging mass of fire. He taught me to contemplate the coolness and warmth found throughout my entire body. A spiritual light coalesced inside me and transformed my thoughts of excessive lust into the fire of wisdom. After that, all the Buddhas referred to me by the name Fire-Head. Due to the strength of this Fire-light Samádhi, I accomplished Arhat-ship. I made a great vow that when any Buddha accomplishes the Way, I will be a powerful knight and personally subdue the demons’ enmity. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. I used attentive contemplation of the effects of heat in my body and mind until it became unobstructed and penetrating and all my outflows were consumed. I produced a blazing brilliance and ascended to enlightenment. That is the foremost means.”

The Bodhisattva Maintaining the Earth arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I remember when Universal Light Thus Come One appeared in the world in the past. I was a Bhikshu who continually worked on making level the major roads, ferry-landings, and the dangerous spots in the ground, where the disrepair might hinder or harm horse carriages. I did everything from building bridges to hauling sand. Throughout the appearance of limitless Buddhas in the world I was diligent in this hard labor. If there were people waiting by the walls and gates of the cities who needed someone to carry their goods, I would carry them all the way to their destination, set the things down, and leave without taking any recompense. When the Buddha Vipashyin appeared in the world, there was widespread famine. I would carry people on my back, and no matter how far the distance, I would accept only one small coin. If there was an ox-cart stuck in the mud, I would use my spiritual strength to push the wheels out and resolve the hardship. “Once a king asked the Buddha to attend a vegetarian feast. At that time, I served the Buddha by leveling the road for him as he went. Vipashyin Thus Come One rubbed my crown and said, ‘You should level your mind-ground, then everything else in the world would be level.’ Immediately my mind opened up and I saw how the particles of earth composing my own body were no different from all the particles of earth that made up the world. These particles of dust do not conflict with our nature, to the point that not even the blade of a sword could harm it. Within the Dharma-nature I awakened to the patience with the non-production of dharmas and accomplished Arhat-ship. My mind has returned and I have now entered the ranks of the Bodhisattvas. Hearing that Thus Come One proclaim the Wonderful Lotus Flower, the level of the Buddha’s knowledge and vision, I have already been certified as having understood and am a leader in the assembly. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. Upon attentive contemplation of the body and the environment, I saw that these two defiling dusts are exactly the same. Fundamentally everything is the Treasury of the Thus Come One, but then falseness arises and creates the defiling dust. When the defiling dust is eliminated, wisdom is perfected, and one accomplishes the unsurpassed Way. That is the foremost means.”

The Bodhisattva Pure Youth Moonlight arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I remember that long ago, beyond eons as many as there are sand grains in the Ganges, there was a Buddha in the world named Water-God, who taught all the Bodhisattvas to cultivate the contemplation of water and enter samádhi. I reflected upon how throughout the body the essence of water is not in discord. I started with mucus, phlegm, saliva, marrow, and blood, and went through to urine and excrement. As it circulated through my body, the nature of water remained the same. I saw that the water in my body was not at all different from that in the world outside, even that in royal lands of floating banners with all their seas of fragrant waters. At that time, when I first succeeded in the contemplation of water, I could see only water. I still had not gotten beyond my physical body. I was a Bhikshu then, and once when I was in Dhyana repose in my room, a disciple of mine peeked in the window and saw only clear water filling the entire room. He saw nothing else. The lad was young, and not knowing any better, he picked up a tile and tossed it into the water. It hit the water with a ‘plunk.’ He gazed around and then left. When I came out of concentration, I was suddenly aware of a pain in my heart, and I felt like Shariputra must have felt when he met that cruel ghost. I thought, ‘I am already an Arhat and have long since abandoned conditions that bring on illness. Why do I suddenly have this pain in my heart? Am I about to lose the position of non-retreat?’ Just then, the young lad came promptly to me and related what had happened. I quickly said to him, ‘When you see the water again, open the door, wade into the water, and remove the tile.’ The boy was obedient, so when I re-entered samádhi, he again saw the water and the tile as well, opened the door, and took it out. When I came out of concentration, my body was as it had been before. I encountered limitless Buddhas and cultivated in that way until the coming of the Thus Come One, King of Masterful Penetrations of Mountains and Seas. Then I finally had no body. My nature and the seas of fragrant waters throughout the ten directions were identical with True Emptiness, without any duality or difference. Now I am with the Thus Come One and am known as a Pure Youth, and I have joined the assembly of Bodhisattvas. Ipenetrated through to the flow of a single flavor, obtained patience with the non-production of dharmas, and reached the perfection of Bodhi. That is the foremost means.”

The Dharma Prince Vaidurya Light arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I can still remember back through eons as many as sand grains in the Ganges to the time of a Buddha named Limitless Sound, who instructed the Bodhisattvas that fundamental enlightenment is wonderful and bright. He taught them to contemplate this world and all the beings’ physical bodies as being false conditions propelled by the power of wind. At that time, I contemplated the position of the world, and I regarded the passage of time in the world. I reflected on the motion and stillness of my body. I considered the arising of thoughts in my mind. There was no difference among all these kinds of motion; they were all the same. I then understood that the nature of movement does not come from anywhere, nor does it go anywhere. Every single material particle throughout the ten directions and every deluded being is of the same empty falseness. Eventually the beings in each of the worlds of the three-thousand-great-thousand world system were like so many mosquitoes confined in a vessel, droning monotonously. Caught in those few square inches, their hum built to a maddening crescendo. Not long after I encountered the Buddha, I attained patience with non-existence of beings and dharmas. My mind then opened, and I could see the country of the Buddha Unmoving in the east. I became a Dharma Prince and served the Buddhas of the ten directions. My body and mind emit a light that makes them completely clear and translucent. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. I contemplated the power of wind as lacking anything to rely on, awakened to the Bodhi-mind and entered samádhi, meshing with the single, wonderful mind transmitted by all the Buddhas of the ten directions. That is the foremost means.”

Treasury of Emptiness Bodhisattva arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “The Thus Come One and I attained boundless bodies when with the Buddha Samádhi-Light. At that time I held in my hands four huge precious pearls, which shone on Buddha lands as many as the motes of dust in the ten directions, transforming them into emptiness. In my mind there appeared a great, perfect mirror and from it issued forth ten kinds of subtle, wonderful precious light that poured out into the ten directions to the farthest bounds of emptiness. All the royal lands adorned with banners were reflected in this mirror and passed through my body. This interaction was totally unhindered, because my body was like emptiness. Because my mind had become completely compliant, I could enter with ease as many countries as there are fine motes of dust and could do the Buddha’s work on a wide scale. I achieved this great spiritual power from contemplating in detail how the four elements lack any reliance; how the arising and ceasing of false thoughts is no different from emptiness; how all the Buddha lands are basically the same. Once I realized this identity, I obtained patience with the non-existence of beings and dharmas. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. I used the contemplation of the boundlessness of emptiness to enter samádhi and attain wonderful power and perfect clarity. That is the foremost means.”

Maitreya Bodhisattva arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha, “I remember when, as many eons ago as there are fine motes of dust, a Buddha named Light of Sun, Moon and Lamp appeared in the world. Under that Buddha I left the home life; yet I was deeply committed to worldly fame and liked to associate with people of good families. Then the World Honored One taught me to cultivate Consciousness-only Concentration, and I entered that samádhi. For many eons I have made use of that samádhi as I served as many Buddhas as there are sand grains in the Ganges. My seeking for worldly name and fame ceased completely and never recurred. When Burning Lamp Buddha appeared in the world, I finally accomplished the unsurpassed, wonderfully perfect Samádhi of Consciousness. I went on until, to the ends of empty space, all the lands of the Thus Come One, whether pure or defiled, existent or non-existent, were transformations appearing from my own mind. World Honored One, because I understand Consciousness Only, limitless Thus Come Ones flow forth from this nature of consciousness. Now I have received the prediction that I will be the next to take the Buddha’s place. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. I intensely contemplated the ten directions as originating only from consciousness. When the consciousness is perfect and bright, one perfects wisdom that perceives ultimate reality. One leaves behind reliance on others and attachment to incessant calculating and attains the patience with the non-existence of beings and dharmas. That is the foremost means.”

The Dharma Prince Great Strength (Mahàsthàmapràpta), together with fifty-two fellow- Bodhisattvas, arose from their seats, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha: “I remember when, as many eons ago as there are sand grains in the Ganges River, a Buddha called Limitless Light appeared in the world. During that same eon, there were twelve successive Thus Come Ones, the last of whom was called Light Surpassing the Sun and the Moon Buddha. Those Buddhas taught me the Buddha-recitation Samádhi: Suppose there are two people, one of whom always remembers the other, while the other has entirely forgotten about the first one. Even if these two people were to meet or see each other, it would be the same as not meeting or seeing each other. On the other hand, if two people develop intense memories for one another, then in life after life, they will be together like an object and its shadow, and they will never be separated. The Thus Come Ones of the ten directions are tenderly mindful of living beings just like a mother remembering her son. But if the son runs away, of what use is the mother’s concern? However, if she remembers her son, then in life after life mother and son will never be far apart.(1) If living beings remember the Buddha and are mindful of the Buddha, they will certainly see the Buddha now and in the future. Being close to the Buddha, even without the aid of expedients, they will awaken by themselves. That is like a person who, once perfumed by incense, carries the fragrance on his body. That is called the adornment of fragrance and light. On the causal ground, I used mindfulness of the Buddha to be patient with the non-arising of both beings and dharmas. Now in this world I gather in all those who are mindful of the Buddha, and I bring them back to the Pure Land. The Buddha asks about perfect penetration. I would select none other than gathering in the six sense faculties through continuous pure mindfulness of the Buddha to obtain samádhi(Buddha recitation samadhi). That is the foremost means.”

When Contemplator of the World’s Sounds Bodhisattva (Avalokiteshvara) arose from his seat, bowed at the Buddha’s feet, and said to the Buddha: “World Honored One, I remember when, as many eons ago as there are sand grains in the Ganges, there was a Buddha in the world named Contemplator of the World’s Sounds. I brought forth the Bodhi-resolve while with that Buddha, who taught me to enter samádhi through a process of hearing and reflecting (cultivation). Initially, I entered into the flow of hearing and forgot the place of entry. Since both that place and the entry were quiet, the two attributes of motion and stillness cancelled each other out and did not arise. After that, gradually advancing, the hearing and what was heard both disappeared. Once the hearing was ended, there was nothing to rely on, and both awareness and its objects became empty. When the emptiness of awareness was ultimately perfected, emptiness and what was being emptied then also ceased to be. With arising and ceasing gone, tranquility was revealed. Suddenly I transcended the worldly and transcendental, and a perfect brightness prevailed throughout the ten directions. I obtained two supreme states. First, I united above with the fundamental wonderfully enlightened mind of all the Buddhas of the ten directions, and gained a strength of compassion equal to that of all Buddhas, Thus Come Ones. Second, I united below with all beings in the six paths, and gained a kind regard for all living beings.”
Make personal vows.

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LastLegend
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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by LastLegend » Thu May 28, 2020 5:45 am

I am suspecting based on my delusional thought there might be an Arahant on this forum.
Make personal vows.

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by npr » Thu May 28, 2020 10:39 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:23 am
npr wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:32 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:01 pm


Aha! In that statement, the age-old trap that ensnares almost every Dharma student:

“What does it depend on?”

This is what happens, starting with the premise of something truly existent, and then afterwards, trying to dissect it to see what it’s made from. And the problem with that is, you can’t get the right answer if the question is wrong to begin with. You are assuming the existence of an “it” which is merely an abstract concept representing s multitude of events.

I think your question about “absolute” is best answers in the famous zen poem, On Believing In Mind:

In the higher realm of true Suchness
There is neither "self" nor "other":
When direct identification is sought,
We can only say, "Not two".

In being "not two" all is the same,
All that is is comprehended in it;
The wise in the ten quarters,
They all enter into this Absolute Reason.

This Absolute Reason is beyond time and space,
For it one instant is ten thousand years;
Whether we see it or not,
It is manifest everywhere in all the ten quarters.


•••

PadmaVonSamba,

Queequeg suggests that The One-Mind "It depends on causes and conditions." I ask: What causes and conditions?


It seems that instead of simply saying that you are not able to answer this question you maneuver with puns.

and you use the word 'IT' yourself in your reply, referring to Being 'not-two'. not to a mere object/phenomena. Nice poem.
I used “it” within the context of a mistaken presumption, which is explained.

intrinsic existence vs. dependent arising,
From the Zen point of view, this is still reasoning trapped in duality, which is why the author of the poem, Seng-ts'an, writes “not-two”.

Yes, it is one of the greatest poems, I think.

Is there “one mind” which is absolute?
I think, yes. Awareness. It is there regardless of conditions. It cannot be refuted.
Awareness is both the subject and, when awareness is aware of awareness, also the object.
。。。

----------
"Is there “one mind” which is absolute?
I think, yes. Awareness. It is there regardless of conditions. It cannot be refuted."

'I' agree with you on that. (that's what I asked in the very beginning and received a 'no' )

What I still wonder is why (long years and knowledgeable) Buddhism followers, have to discuss such KEY matters with "I think"
I am NOT mocking you and now being cynical

:namaste:

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by Wayfarer » Thu May 28, 2020 11:26 am

LastLegend wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 5:45 am
I am suspecting based on my delusional thought there might be an Arahant on this forum.
Probably among the first things Arahants abandon is the internet. Bodhisattvas, however, might continue to visit, but only for the sake of the delusional beings enticed by it. :smile:
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by Anders » Thu May 28, 2020 12:04 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:26 am
but only for the sake of the delusional beings enticed by it. :smile:
What, do bodhisattvas never have fun?
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

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Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’

Post by LastLegend » Thu May 28, 2020 12:27 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:26 am
LastLegend wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 5:45 am
I am suspecting based on my delusional thought there might be an Arahant on this forum.
Probably among the first things Arahants abandon is the internet. Bodhisattvas, however, might continue to visit, but only for the sake of the delusional beings enticed by it. :smile:
Anders wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:04 pm
Wayfarer wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:26 am
but only for the sake of the delusional beings enticed by it. :smile:
What, do bodhisattvas never have fun?
Well from what was described Arahant is one with a pure awareness with no delusional thoughts and sufering; it’s in the way they train. For example, actively not allow delusional thoughts to arise. That can be understood as discipline the mind.
Last edited by LastLegend on Thu May 28, 2020 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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