Wall Gazing

ananda
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Wall Gazing

Post by ananda » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:58 am

You ever tried it before ?
What are your thoughts on it as a meditation ?
"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life, and continue chanting Namu-myoho-renge-kyo. no matter what happens. How could this be anything other than the boundless joy of the Law? Strengthen your power of faith more than ever." - Nichiren Daishonin

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Astus
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Astus » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:04 am

What do you mean by "wall gazing"?
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

ananda
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by ananda » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:31 am

Wall Gazing as in meditating by gazing at a wall. Like how Bodhidharma is said to have done for several years.
"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life, and continue chanting Namu-myoho-renge-kyo. no matter what happens. How could this be anything other than the boundless joy of the Law? Strengthen your power of faith more than ever." - Nichiren Daishonin

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Astus
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Astus » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:44 am

In Bodhidharma's case "wall gazing" likely meant not a physical posture but maintaining the mind like a wall, that is, without discrimination or attachment to emotions and ideas.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Seishin
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Seishin » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:49 pm

What is it called when people meditate facing a wall?

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Astus
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Astus » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:57 pm

There is "wall contemplation" (biguan 壁觀) and there is "facing the wall" (mianbi 面壁). In Bodhidharma's story the two becomes the same eventually. As for why in Soto Zen they rather sit facing the wall and how they call it, I do not know.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Malcolm
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Malcolm » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:58 pm

Astus wrote:There is "wall contemplation" (biguan 壁觀) and there is "facing the wall" (mianbi 面壁). In Bodhidharma's story the two becomes the same eventually. As for why in Soto Zen they rather sit facing the wall and how they call it, I do not know.

When translated into Tibetan, "faced a wall" was translated as "faced reality".
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by DGA » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:45 pm

ananda wrote:You ever tried it before ?
What are your thoughts on it as a meditation ?
It's a way to practice. Some find it helpful. I didn't find it contributed particularly myself, anymore than not facing a wall.

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:02 am

ananda wrote:You ever tried it before ?
What are your thoughts on it as a meditation ?
Yea, I've done a WHOLE LOT of this. This is how we sit in Soto Zen practice.

What are my thoughts on it??? That's a tough question. In short, I'd say it's easier to ensure you don't get distracted with your thoughts.

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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by lovekuanyin » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:15 am

Sorry to revive such an old thread but this came as the first topic in a google search on "wall gazing", so I thought I would contribute info to this for anyone that wants to know more.

I have been practicing Buddhist meditation for 20 years. Wall gazing is my favorite practice. Wall gazing is actually an advanced meditation, and unless an individual excels in 1) achieving long periods of concentration (samadhi), and 2) observing the mind without being distracted (vipassana), then "wall gazing" may seem very boring and practitioners may soon lose interest. However, "Wall Gazing" is extremely an extremely profound practice that can enable you to see your Buddha nature instantly.

What actually happens during "Wall Gazing"? One merely uses the wall as a point of access to see the mind. To start, turn your gaze towards a wall. Although your eyes are physically on the wall, your mind is not thinking about the wall nor is it trying to analyze the wall. You focus your gaze on the wall, so that the wall can reflect your mind. It is a type of vipassana practice but it is more advanced because it can enable the Buddha nature to be revealed instantaneously.

Stare at the wall and observe your mind. Just as the wall is a blank canvas (much like watching a tv screen), allow your mind to reveal itself. When your mind reveals itself, continue focusing your gaze on the wall without actually paying attention to the mind. In this case, the mind itself is the object. There is no need to visualize anything. Learn to be still with the mind without falling into it's trap.

To use an analogy, it is like you're sitting on a rocking boat in the ocean. The waves cause the boat to rock back and forth. The waves symbolize the mind. The wall acts like an anchor for the boat to stabilize the mind. By focusing your gaze on the wall, you are learning not to be affected by the mind. The key steps are 1) keep your gaze on the wall, 2) let the mind reveal itself, and 3) stare at the wall without tuning into the mind. It's like seeing the images on a tv without paying attention to them. If you stare long enough, the mind turns into emptiness. It is like a bubble that is popped. When the bubble pops, it reveals the Buddha nature. The Buddha nature is not a thing or an object. It is merely the emptiness of the mind.

However, the mind will continue to play tricks or manifest delusions, so it is important to continue practicing this everyday until all delusions are emptied.

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Astus
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Astus » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:25 am

lovekuanyin wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:15 am
If you stare long enough, the mind turns into emptiness. ... it is important to continue practicing this everyday until all delusions are emptied.
Insight (vipasyana) is to recognise that all thoughts are empty as they are. Trying to make the mind empty is an endless endeavour. So, as Huineng said (Platform Sutra, ch 2, BDK ed, p 29):

"If you empty your minds and sit in quietude, this is to become attached to the emptiness of blankness." and
"there are deluded people who empty their minds and sit in quietude without thinking of anything whatsoever, claiming that this is great."

furthermore (ch 6, p 47):

"One must not become immersed in emptiness, protecting one’s tranquility. One should study extensively and become learned [in the scriptures], recognizing one’s own fundamental mind and attaining the various principles of Buddhism."
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Lindama
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Lindama » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:22 am

I've sat in and out regarding walls.... no diff... nor, stirring soup. sooner or later, the props fall away.
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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bokki
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by bokki » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:50 am

sirs, ill just chime in a bit here...
im from soto, but that does not mean i know something, or have a valid view..
of a wall, LOL

wall gazing is just another description of soto shikantaza..
4 example, just sitting...
just sit? do not breath? dont notice when the tanto is whacking you?

just sit? lol, ull be sensing what ur neighbor sitter is not only doing, but thinking..!
the left and right one!
and the whole zendo, too,
untill u samadhi out, and they have to wake u up..

just sit?
lol, ur liver, spine and lungs will not just sit!
they will help u 2 stay alive!
so.. so many strange words and ideas..lol

anyway, wall gazing, is not wall gazing ,
but resting the eyes on a particular spot on the wall,
...
i cant and will not go on.
samadhi is the reason, but methods are many.

i was severely reprimanded for holding my hands in a different
manner, not soto mudra, but a fist mudra.
what?
so touchy, full of tradition! many, many strange things, but well, thats how it is.

so, if u call it wall gazing, or just sitting, lol, i bow 2 u!

just don't think ill buy into such..w o r d s
...well.
4 me ""just sitting", ""wall gazing"" are just an unlucky choice of words.

just DO NOT listen 2 me, plz. thnx
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bokki
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by bokki » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:20 am

lovekuanyin!
LOL that was such a wrong post, i cant even begin, but there it is.
lol, rock on, u probably know a few things im ignorant of.
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10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
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bokki
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by bokki » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:41 pm

friends, sirs and madams.
zen is simple.
not 4 of bla bla, 6 of this, 11 of that, or 17 of those, 32 wisdoms or 12 steps.

its only
1 thing.
1 thing!

seeing one's nature!
seeing the original mind! seeing the one and basic truth!

so..if you want to wander about, wonder there, around, or whereever, pleaze do.

just dont say that our ancestors did not do their utmost, best, sacrificed lifes and health, for just one thing.

to be enlightened to the true nature of the...all.

so, dont be surprised if some1 foolish asks you
"what is this?'..he is probably yama, the judge.

say "hello" to him, in my name.
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
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Anonymous X
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Anonymous X » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:50 am

Astus wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:25 am
Insight (vipasyana) is to recognise that all thoughts are empty as they are.
Vipassana, via wise reflection, seems to be much more than this. Not only are thoughts empty, not self, all experience is seen to be dependently originated, unstable, and unsatisfying. This manifests the 4 Noble Truths in its entirety, I think.

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Astus
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Astus » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:21 pm

Anonymous X wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:50 am
Vipassana, via wise reflection, seems to be much more than this. Not only are thoughts empty, not self, all experience is seen to be dependently originated, unstable, and unsatisfying. This manifests the 4 Noble Truths in its entirety, I think.
Dharmas are merely thought products. Hence seeing the emptiness of thoughts is seeing the emptiness of everything.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by Anonymous X » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Astus wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:21 pm
Anonymous X wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:50 am
Vipassana, via wise reflection, seems to be much more than this. Not only are thoughts empty, not self, all experience is seen to be dependently originated, unstable, and unsatisfying. This manifests the 4 Noble Truths in its entirety, I think.
Dharmas are merely thought products. Hence seeing the emptiness of thoughts is seeing the emptiness of everything.
This still seems like an intellectual understanding and not an understanding of paticca-samupadda, dependent origination. Thought is a conditioned effect that arises from a cause. Not seeing the cause and the chain of causation still keeps one perceiving a phantom self and subject/object point of view.

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bokki
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by bokki » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:37 am

Thought is a conditioned effect that arises from a cause. Not seeing the cause and the chain of causation still keeps one perceiving a phantom self and subject/object point of view.
thought is a conditioned effect that arises from a cause..so? hunger is 2..sleep is 2..toilet is 2..hands cooking is 2... cleaning house is 2...so?
So?..seeing the the cause and chain of causation will keep one not perceiving a phantom self and subject/object?
LOL!TOP! how many ideas can u produce in two sentences, my friend?
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10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Wall Gazing

Post by PuerAzaelis » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:16 am

bokki wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:37 am
thought is a conditioned effect that arises from a cause..so? hunger is 2..sleep is 2..toilet is 2..hands cooking is 2... cleaning house is 2...so?
So?..seeing the the cause and chain of causation will keep one not perceiving a phantom self and subject/object?
LOL!TOP! how many ideas can u produce in two sentences, my friend?
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