Wall Gazing
Re: Wall Gazing
LOL!
that is just d best gif i saw! LOL! ever!
lol, i just love cats!
thnx Azaelis!
....
master and margarita,bulgakov
LOL
pure puer!
that is just d best gif i saw! LOL! ever!
lol, i just love cats!
thnx Azaelis!
....
master and margarita,bulgakov
LOL
pure puer!
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
-
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:32 pm
Re: Wall Gazing
and so who are you, after all?
I am part of the power which forever wills evil and
forever works good.
LO
L
Re: Wall Gazing
What I like about Zen is that everything can be summed up in its entirety precisely by saying nothing at all.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam
Re: Wall Gazing
When I started practicing zazen about two and a half years ago, I started with wall gazing right away. It felt like such a cool idea and I didn't have a teacher to tell me 'no, you can't do it'. I don't have elaborate philosophical reasons for this particular form of practice, I just practice it.
Re: Wall Gazing
According to the Tibetan translation of Bodhidharma's account, the Chinese term "facing a wall" is translated as "Facing reality."
Re: Wall Gazing
Malcolm; I remember you sharing the Tibetan translation of “facing a wall” (“facing reality”) many years ago and it’s stuck with me. Thank you.
Last edited by Grigoris on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed off-topic advertising
Reason: Removed off-topic advertising
Re: Wall Gazing
oh, hi Clyde!
so good to see you!
ugh, have you been edited?
LOL
mods karma, my friend, lol
very , very happy to see you here.
thank you Clyde,
for much of the wisdom you share.
b
so good to see you!
ugh, have you been edited?
LOL
mods karma, my friend, lol
very , very happy to see you here.
thank you Clyde,
for much of the wisdom you share.
b
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Wall Gazing
I think I would notice if a TANTO was whacking me, yes. The ones we used were sharp enough to shave with. I would prefer to arise, disarm and settle back into seiza without disturbing my contemplation. Odd Zendo you attended.... did you also sit on a wakazashi cushion?bokki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:50 am sirs, ill just chime in a bit here...
im from soto, but that does not mean i know something, or have a valid view..
of a wall, LOL
wall gazing is just another description of soto shikantaza..
4 example, just sitting...
just sit? do not breath? dont notice when the tanto is whacking you?
just sit? lol, ull be sensing what ur neighbor sitter is not only doing, but thinking..!
the left and right one!
and the whole zendo, too,
untill u samadhi out, and they have to wake u up..
just sit?
lol, ur liver, spine and lungs will not just sit!
they will help u 2 stay alive!
so.. so many strange words and ideas..lol
anyway, wall gazing, is not wall gazing ,
but resting the eyes on a particular spot on the wall,
...
i cant and will not go on.
samadhi is the reason, but methods are many.
i was severely reprimanded for holding my hands in a different
manner, not soto mudra, but a fist mudra.
what?
so touchy, full of tradition! many, many strange things, but well, thats how it is.
so, if u call it wall gazing, or just sitting, lol, i bow 2 u!
just don't think ill buy into such..w o r d s
...well.
4 me ""just sitting", ""wall gazing"" are just an unlucky choice of words.
just DO NOT listen 2 me, plz. thnx
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Re: Wall Gazing
Different tanto. He's referring to a role in the zendo, a senior practitioner.Mantrik wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:40 pm I think I would notice if a TANTO was whacking me, yes. The ones we used were sharp enough to shave with. I would prefer to arise, disarm and settle back into seiza without disturbing my contemplation. Odd Zendo you attended.... did you also sit on a wakazashi cushion?
I like your version better though.
Re: Wall Gazing
Meido Roshi, so
very , very nice to see you!
i will always bow to you, please note that!
Mantrik, very good words.
well..
on my first seshin, the short kyosaku was brokken on my back..
why was that?
see, look,
after , we even bowed , to have a bit of kyosaku..
why was that?
sir, my zendo is non of ur business
i sat on a zafu and zabuton, at home i sat on all kinds of stuff
Sir, what do you sit on?.
i mean,
UGH, OK
ill try to be more silent..
hmm..if possible..lol
very , very nice to see you!
i will always bow to you, please note that!
Mantrik, very good words.
well..
on my first seshin, the short kyosaku was brokken on my back..
why was that?
see, look,
after , we even bowed , to have a bit of kyosaku..
why was that?
sir, my zendo is non of ur business
i sat on a zafu and zabuton, at home i sat on all kinds of stuff
Sir, what do you sit on?.
i mean,
UGH, OK
ill try to be more silent..
hmm..if possible..lol
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Wall Gazing
I haven't heard of it as anything other than a Keisaku.Meido wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:45 pmDifferent tanto. He's referring to a role in the zendo, a senior practitioner.Mantrik wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:40 pm I think I would notice if a TANTO was whacking me, yes. The ones we used were sharp enough to shave with. I would prefer to arise, disarm and settle back into seiza without disturbing my contemplation. Odd Zendo you attended.... did you also sit on a wakazashi cushion?
I like your version better though.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Re: Wall Gazing
hey, Mantrik, Sir, thanks for your reply.
ok, sry, not kyosaku, but keisaku, ok, got it.
i sat in a soto zendo..
i would really like to know,
what was ur practice..general, nothing specific, rinzai or soto, or anything you would like to share..
for example, the keisakus were sharp..
our were blunt and.. lol.. heavy..LOL
i never could learn to wield the long one, the normal one, lol
i was so bad at it..lol
but, also, Sir, what is your opinion of the keisaku?
i, personally, think that it made me sooo
so much more concentrated and
give much more effort.
thank you Mantrik.
b
ok, sry, not kyosaku, but keisaku, ok, got it.
i sat in a soto zendo..
i would really like to know,
what was ur practice..general, nothing specific, rinzai or soto, or anything you would like to share..
for example, the keisakus were sharp..
our were blunt and.. lol.. heavy..LOL
i never could learn to wield the long one, the normal one, lol
i was so bad at it..lol
but, also, Sir, what is your opinion of the keisaku?
i, personally, think that it made me sooo
so much more concentrated and
give much more effort.
thank you Mantrik.
b
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Wall Gazing
Oh, in Zen, just a few sessions as a complete beginner.bokki wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:57 am hey, Mantrik, Sir, thanks for your reply.
ok, sry, not kyosaku, but keisaku, ok, got it.
i sat in a soto zendo..
i would really like to know,
what was ur practice..general, nothing specific, rinzai or soto, or anything you would like to share..
for example, the keisakus were sharp..
our were blunt and.. lol.. heavy..LOL
i never could learn to wield the long one, the normal one, lol
i was so bad at it..lol
but, also, Sir, what is your opinion of the keisaku?
i, personally, think that it made me sooo
so much more concentrated and
give much more effort.
thank you Mantrik.
b
We had an Aikido dojo with a Zendo above it for a short time. (White Plum rings a bell but it was decades ago.) Yes, kyosaku is the Soto word for keisaku afaik.
I was more used to being chased around by someone with a tanto than sitting in a Zendo. It just struck me as an odd use of the word 'tanto', knowing it only as a sharp knife....which would certainly wake me up!
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Re: Wall Gazing
Thank you, Mantrik.
i only now understand that a tanto is a knife, sword too..LOL
how ignorant am i? lol
Sir, i was made to do this,
but, lol, i just cant kneel at the back of some1 in zazen, and, whack them properly !lol
so, after a few weeks, i was relieved from this duty, happily, ha.
sir Meido could, in a few sentences , explain the use of the keisaku, by the tanto, to wake and spur students on.
Could u please, Meido Roshi, say some about the use of the stick?
i dont think it is used anywhere in Buddhism, but only in zen and chan.. i dont know..
anyway, thnx for the nice conversation, Mantrik.
and i really hope Meido Roshi explains a bit, he is also an aikido master, and a steel forger.
thnx, all
b
i only now understand that a tanto is a knife, sword too..LOL
how ignorant am i? lol
Sir, i was made to do this,
but, lol, i just cant kneel at the back of some1 in zazen, and, whack them properly !lol
so, after a few weeks, i was relieved from this duty, happily, ha.
sir Meido could, in a few sentences , explain the use of the keisaku, by the tanto, to wake and spur students on.
Could u please, Meido Roshi, say some about the use of the stick?
i dont think it is used anywhere in Buddhism, but only in zen and chan.. i dont know..
anyway, thnx for the nice conversation, Mantrik.
and i really hope Meido Roshi explains a bit, he is also an aikido master, and a steel forger.
thnx, all
b
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Wall Gazing
Several uses. Mostly, to deliver a series of strikes to specific points that lie in between the spine and shoulder blade. The effect is to release tension, drop energy downward that has risen up, re-establish clarity, and dispel sleepiness.
The quality of the sound made when it hits reveals something about the internal condition and breath cultivation of the recipient: there is specific way to receive the strikes with the body that affects this sound. Naturally it also reveals something about the striker's condition and degree of skill. If those conditions are all correct, the sound can benefit others in the zendo as well.
Re: Wall Gazing
yes! thank you Meido Roshi, i saidthet it would take you only a few words to explain it deeply!
Thank you.
of course, i have no such knowledge to explain this use of kyosaku deeper..
but, i would like to add a few things..please correct me if i am wrong, Sir Meido.
there a two kinds of kyosaku, a normal ,long one.
it is used every day, and students bow to receive a two hit, left and right..
and a short one, used on new students, only in seshin..
ugh, that is PAIN! WHACKED BY A 50 CM STICK ON YOUR BACK, WHILE YOU ARE TRYING TO MED..SHIKAN.KOAN..lol
repeatedly.. no escaping it..lol
anyway, yes, the points are 3-5cm from the spine, and shoulder blades...
but sometimes they end up on the top of shoulders or..
even worse..
i have not seen, or experienced this, but i have heard, read
that men, or even women, were hit
on the head, or even worse,
face.
hmmm
i, again, personally, think that the kyosaku really made me meditate harder.
a big help!
but , then, see, when my friends heard how that was,
they laughed and said..''u went to japan to be beaten..what is that?'' LOL
anyway, practitioners often bow when they hear the tanto is near, so they would be hit with the kyosaku, to dispel their sleepiness
or just for a..pick up.
so, it is strange, but for me so good!
different from the name ''wall gazing''...LOL
THNX, Sir Meido
b
Thank you.
of course, i have no such knowledge to explain this use of kyosaku deeper..
but, i would like to add a few things..please correct me if i am wrong, Sir Meido.
there a two kinds of kyosaku, a normal ,long one.
it is used every day, and students bow to receive a two hit, left and right..
and a short one, used on new students, only in seshin..
ugh, that is PAIN! WHACKED BY A 50 CM STICK ON YOUR BACK, WHILE YOU ARE TRYING TO MED..SHIKAN.KOAN..lol
repeatedly.. no escaping it..lol
anyway, yes, the points are 3-5cm from the spine, and shoulder blades...
but sometimes they end up on the top of shoulders or..
even worse..
i have not seen, or experienced this, but i have heard, read
that men, or even women, were hit
on the head, or even worse,
face.
hmmm
i, again, personally, think that the kyosaku really made me meditate harder.
a big help!
but , then, see, when my friends heard how that was,
they laughed and said..''u went to japan to be beaten..what is that?'' LOL
anyway, practitioners often bow when they hear the tanto is near, so they would be hit with the kyosaku, to dispel their sleepiness
or just for a..pick up.
so, it is strange, but for me so good!
different from the name ''wall gazing''...LOL
THNX, Sir Meido
b
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
Re: Wall Gazing
I only know one kind of keisaku/kyosaku. There are different weights of them for summer/winter, since garments get thicker in winter.
The teacher may carry a short stick called a shippei during kentan.
But I am really only familiar with the Rinzai practice I've done.
Training tools and practices can be abused.
We're off topic here, let's get back to wall-gazing.
Re: Wall Gazing
you got that fist mudra from kung fu movies? thats the one i always use, unless i'm in the zendo of coursebokki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:50 am sirs, ill just chime in a bit here...
im from soto, but that does not mean i know something, or have a valid view..
of a wall, LOL
wall gazing is just another description of soto shikantaza..
4 example, just sitting...
just sit? do not breath? dont notice when the tanto is whacking you?
just sit? lol, ull be sensing what ur neighbor sitter is not only doing, but thinking..!
the left and right one!
and the whole zendo, too,
untill u samadhi out, and they have to wake u up..
just sit?
lol, ur liver, spine and lungs will not just sit!
they will help u 2 stay alive!
so.. so many strange words and ideas..lol
anyway, wall gazing, is not wall gazing ,
but resting the eyes on a particular spot on the wall,
...
i cant and will not go on.
samadhi is the reason, but methods are many.
i was severely reprimanded for holding my hands in a different
manner, not soto mudra, but a fist mudra.
what?
so touchy, full of tradition! many, many strange things, but well, thats how it is.
so, if u call it wall gazing, or just sitting, lol, i bow 2 u!
just don't think ill buy into such..w o r d s
...well.
4 me ""just sitting", ""wall gazing"" are just an unlucky choice of words.
just DO NOT listen 2 me, plz. thnx
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam
Re: Wall Gazing
Sun!
So nice to see you Eric!
LOL
So nice, thanx!
ha, no not from kung fu movies, lol
just the rinzai mudra, which they dont tolerate in Soto..
you know the one, when the thumb is held by the other hand in a kind of fist.
sometimes my hands would kind of start to ''sleep'', so i would change the mudra, so i wouldnt have to bother with an another pain..
i suppose they think one cant do shikantaza while holding such a mudra..
or one cant do shikantaza while facing the zendo...lol
no, 1 has to ''face the wall''. LOL
i mean, what has ''wall gazing'' have to do with shikantaza?
like, y not window gazing, or toilet gazing, or gazing at the table..
imo, just a bad choice of words, just like 'just sitting', ..
at home you sit with the rinzai mudra, but in the zendo,
..??
u see..hmmm.
hey, Eric,
ill recount one little story about some soto vs rinzai mentality..
a bunch of us, all robed in black, were in a subway station, waiting for the train..
suddenly, there appeared this quite big, fat rinzai monk, all clad in blue..
he smiled at us, and started to approach us..
and what did our seniors do, the three of them..?
they stood up, made a 'wall' against him, and seriously stared him down..
so the man lost his smile, turned around, and left...
lol, tolerance on a tin spear.
talking bout 'wall gazing'..lol
what a special meditation..lol
like, ''thank you wall, that was really good, although i did not seek anything..'', lol
yup, modern soto in a nutshell.
how about ''shoji gazing''.. lol,, that must be an advanced method, lol
hey, Eric,
thanx for being here!
b
So nice to see you Eric!
LOL
So nice, thanx!
ha, no not from kung fu movies, lol
just the rinzai mudra, which they dont tolerate in Soto..
you know the one, when the thumb is held by the other hand in a kind of fist.
sometimes my hands would kind of start to ''sleep'', so i would change the mudra, so i wouldnt have to bother with an another pain..
i suppose they think one cant do shikantaza while holding such a mudra..
or one cant do shikantaza while facing the zendo...lol
no, 1 has to ''face the wall''. LOL
i mean, what has ''wall gazing'' have to do with shikantaza?
like, y not window gazing, or toilet gazing, or gazing at the table..
imo, just a bad choice of words, just like 'just sitting', ..
at home you sit with the rinzai mudra, but in the zendo,
..??
u see..hmmm.
hey, Eric,
ill recount one little story about some soto vs rinzai mentality..
a bunch of us, all robed in black, were in a subway station, waiting for the train..
suddenly, there appeared this quite big, fat rinzai monk, all clad in blue..
he smiled at us, and started to approach us..
and what did our seniors do, the three of them..?
they stood up, made a 'wall' against him, and seriously stared him down..
so the man lost his smile, turned around, and left...
lol, tolerance on a tin spear.
talking bout 'wall gazing'..lol
what a special meditation..lol
like, ''thank you wall, that was really good, although i did not seek anything..'', lol
yup, modern soto in a nutshell.
how about ''shoji gazing''.. lol,, that must be an advanced method, lol
hey, Eric,
thanx for being here!
b
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson