Chöd in modern society

Miroku
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Chöd in modern society

Postby Miroku » Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:49 pm

Hello friends, I have few questions that keep bugging me. AFAIK chöd was usually done by yogis and nomads and done in wilderness or at graveyards, so is it okay to practice chöd in modern flats with very thin walls (walls thin enough to tell when your neigbours are having sex :emb: )? Is it okay to practice chöd and sound phat in such enviroment, or is it better to make small chöd camping trips?

Thank you all

:anjali:
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

philji
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby philji » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:24 pm

Chod can be practiced anywhere, not just in graveyards. A flat with thin walls with neighbours having sex sounds ideal... Offering the bodies of all concerned...

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Vasana
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Vasana » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:33 pm

It's down to your own discernment really. Making strange sounds that others will hear and possibly ask you about might not be ideal. It might also influence how comfortable,relaxed and confident you are with the practice too ?

I generally whsiper any liturgies or mantras when others are in the house (same thin walls and ceilings problem) and then chant/speak at normal volume when i know they're out. I understand this isn't always ideal with Phat and instruments though.

Are there times when you know your neighboring flats are out?
"If you think that buddhas and sentient beings are indivisible, you should honor and serve sentient beings to the same degree as you would the buddhas. Do you do that?" ~ Shri Singha

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tomamundsen
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby tomamundsen » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:38 pm

You should ask your teacher who taught you the Chod practice. My teacher said it's fine and actually encourages his students to do so. I do it in an apartment, it is great as a daily practice. I just make sure to do it at an acceptable time (after it's dark but before 9 or 10 o'clock) and I have my windows closed. The neighbors can definitely hear it, but don't complain because it's not at an unacceptable hour. Other people play instruments or stereos, so it's not very unusual for people to make a little noise in their apartment sometimes.

You don't need to go to a graveyard to practice Chod. That is just the "outer Chod" which is not as important as the "inner Chod". Inner Chod can be practiced anywhere. I think most Chod practitioners probably do aspire to practice actual outer Chod sometime, but most of the time for us we will be practicing in city apartments.

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ClearblueSky
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby ClearblueSky » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:54 am

If you're nervous that your neighbors will think you're a weirdo when they hear you making all those noises... then it's probably a great place for you to practice chod. Maybe you can practice to drown out those sex noises, but I guess that leaves the spirits with the conundrum of what situation is more interesting to listen to. :tongue:

Miroku
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Miroku » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:28 pm

Clear, it would be a shame if they chose them and use me only as some kind of a popcorn. :lol: .

Well I have a transmission from ChNN Rinpoche and he states in precious vase that we should do Chö only if the time and situation are suitable. This is actually a reason why I ask, cause I don't wanna disturb anyone. :smile: I guess it might not be so bad since I can quite freely sing SoV at 1am and neighbours don't complain, but as vasana said sometimes knowing that people might be listening to my practice is influencing my confidence and my ability to relax, cause I really don't wanna break samaya or anything by letting people hear me chanting wierd melodies in strange language. :?

But I've been living here for almost a year now and nobody has ever said a word about being upset by my practice.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

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Tongnyid Dorje
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Tongnyid Dorje » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:52 pm

Miroku wrote:Clear, it would be a shame if they chose them and use me only as some kind of a popcorn. :lol: .

Well I have a transmission from ChNN Rinpoche and he states in precious vase that we should do Chö only if the time and situation are suitable. This is actually a reason why I ask, cause I don't wanna disturb anyone. :smile: I guess it might not be so bad since I can quite freely sing SoV at 1am and neighbours don't complain, but as vasana said sometimes knowing that people might be listening to my practice is influencing my confidence and my ability to relax, cause I really don't wanna break samaya or anything by letting people hear me chanting wierd melodies in strange language. :?

But I've been living here for almost a year now and nobody has ever said a word about being upset by my practice.



do your practice with respect to night hour. and everything will be ok. if someone will hear you, its ok, no samaya problem. as it was said above, someone can practice piano, or even singing....so I dont see problem when you do practice. besides this, chod you can do also without damaru, bell and kangling, if you have no circumstances...

Miroku
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Miroku » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:30 pm

Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Miroku wrote:Clear, it would be a shame if they chose them and use me only as some kind of a popcorn. :lol: .

Well I have a transmission from ChNN Rinpoche and he states in precious vase that we should do Chö only if the time and situation are suitable. This is actually a reason why I ask, cause I don't wanna disturb anyone. :smile: I guess it might not be so bad since I can quite freely sing SoV at 1am and neighbours don't complain, but as vasana said sometimes knowing that people might be listening to my practice is influencing my confidence and my ability to relax, cause I really don't wanna break samaya or anything by letting people hear me chanting wierd melodies in strange language. :?

But I've been living here for almost a year now and nobody has ever said a word about being upset by my practice.



do your practice with respect to night hour. and everything will be ok. if someone will hear you, its ok, no samaya problem. as it was said above, someone can practice piano, or even singing....so I dont see problem when you do practice. besides this, chod you can do also without damaru, bell and kangling, if you have no circumstances...



Thank you very much. Now I can finaly relax more in my practice. :woohoo:

Just one last question. I just bought the text and Rinpoche says we can manifest as Tröma Nagmo, or Simhamukha, or some other dakini, but in the text of practice it says that we manifest as Tröma. Would it be in some way better to manifest as Tröma than Simhamukha, or should I try both and then see which one suits me?
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

dzoki
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby dzoki » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:30 pm

philji wrote:Chod can be practiced anywhere, not just in graveyards. A flat with thin walls with neighbours having sex sounds ideal... Offering the bodies of all concerned...


You should not offer bodies of other beings in Chod, especially not of those who gave you no consent to do so.

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lelopa
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby lelopa » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:34 am

Miroku wrote:
Just one last question. I just bought the text and Rinpoche says we can manifest as Tröma Nagmo, or Simhamukha, or some other dakini, but in the text of practice it says that we manifest as Tröma. Would it be in some way better to manifest as Tröma than Simhamukha, or should I try both and then see which one suits me?


What seems better, or more trustworthy for you: a text-book, or that teacher?!?
or: try both and then see which one suits you. :mrgreen:
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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ClearblueSky
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby ClearblueSky » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:36 am

Miroku wrote:
Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Miroku wrote:Clear, it would be a shame if they chose them and use me only as some kind of a popcorn. :lol: .

Well I have a transmission from ChNN Rinpoche and he states in precious vase that we should do Chö only if the time and situation are suitable. This is actually a reason why I ask, cause I don't wanna disturb anyone. :smile: I guess it might not be so bad since I can quite freely sing SoV at 1am and neighbours don't complain, but as vasana said sometimes knowing that people might be listening to my practice is influencing my confidence and my ability to relax, cause I really don't wanna break samaya or anything by letting people hear me chanting wierd melodies in strange language. :?

But I've been living here for almost a year now and nobody has ever said a word about being upset by my practice.



do your practice with respect to night hour. and everything will be ok. if someone will hear you, its ok, no samaya problem. as it was said above, someone can practice piano, or even singing....so I dont see problem when you do practice. besides this, chod you can do also without damaru, bell and kangling, if you have no circumstances...



Thank you very much. Now I can finaly relax more in my practice. :woohoo:

Just one last question. I just bought the text and Rinpoche says we can manifest as Tröma Nagmo, or Simhamukha, or some other dakini, but in the text of practice it says that we manifest as Tröma. Would it be in some way better to manifest as Tröma than Simhamukha, or should I try both and then see which one suits me?

I remember seeing that in his Chod book as well, but the text says Troma in English and Tibetan, and that's how I was instructed for his chod practice. And that's typically the norm for chod. To be honest it's not an ideal practice to be doing based on a book's instructions only, and a teacher would be helpful, but if you've been given permission and transmission then I suppose that's what counts.

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Tongnyid Dorje
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Tongnyid Dorje » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:10 pm

Rinpoche use to say, that you can transform as Simhamukha, thats bc Simhamukha is the main dakini yidam in his teachings and ppl are more familiar with it. But if you have more connection to Troma, do Troma.... principle is the same, as both are wisdom dakinis.

Miroku
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Miroku » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:48 pm

Thank you very much guys, for making this topic more clear for me! :hug:
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

Dharmaswede
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Dharmaswede » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:22 pm

Lama Tsultrim Allione has made the point that one should not disturb others when doing Chöd, as it may create a negative karmic connection with the practice. Provoking spirits in desolate places is one thing, annoying neighbours another - IMHO.

I think it is sound advice to really try to avoid disturbing others with one's Dharma practice.

tingdzin
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby tingdzin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:52 am

Someone once asked Khenpo Palden Sherab if he could or should do his Chod practice in Western-style cemeteries. He said it wasn't a good idea for a lot of reasons.

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lelopa
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby lelopa » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:14 am

ChNN said if you do chod in western cemeteries with instruments, it could be that the police arrived before the demons come....
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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Grigoris
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Grigoris » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:12 am

lelopa wrote:ChNN said if you do chod in western cemeteries with instruments, it could be that the police arrived before the demons come....
You mean police aren't demons?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Grigoris » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:13 am

Dharmaswede wrote:Provoking spirits in desolate places is one thing, annoying neighbours another - IMHO.
Why?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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lelopa
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby lelopa » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:22 am

Sherab Dorje wrote:
lelopa wrote:ChNN said if you do chod in western cemeteries with instruments, it could be that the police arrived before the demons come....
You mean police aren't demons?


oh no, not all..... ;)
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

Dharmaswede
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Re: Chöd in modern society

Postby Dharmaswede » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:47 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
Dharmaswede wrote:Provoking spirits in desolate places is one thing, annoying neighbours another - IMHO.
Why?


Great question, not sure if I can answer it.

But here is my take:
Physically present humans are not treated as spirits to be provoked in Chöd. They may have demons "attached" to them, and Chöd can then be used to deal with them (as in healing an illness). In such cases, they (the humans) are invited into the ritual and asked to lie down but they are not subject to the feasts.

As for annoying your neighbours, I just happen to agree with Lama Tsultrim Allione that disturbing people with Chöd may create a negative karmic imprint and relation to the practice.

There seems to be a glitch in theory, as beings in all six realms can be addressed in the feasts. And some humans are quite demonic, at leas in behaviour. But in practice, I see no glitch. It is not part of the standard praxis of Chöd to provoke human beings, and there is no need for it either. There are enough demons anyway, especially in your own mindstream. No need to engender demonic reactivity in your neighbours.


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